2012-01-02, 14:37 | Link #26841 | |
Artist
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Yesterday!
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So in that logic it really is Ryuukishi's sin. If you want to consider "our world" to be "prime", sure, but Rokkenjima doesn't exist here ^^;; My understanding is that "their world" = 1986 btw. Unless btw you want to consider a Rokkenjima prime to be a world that is the source of inspiration to write the stories. Then I agree that world might exist. But I disagree if you think Rokkenjima exists in that world. I don't think it's really too hard to see either... Plenty of authors translated themselves in their stories through a single or sometimes many characters. Plenty of characters in many writer's stories are based on people the author really met. However, making a murder story that figures a complete cast of people who really exists... well to me that's really unheard of and rather messed up. I find the former thing I explained to be fully normal of about any stories so I really don't see why I should view Umineko any differently. It just actually makes us think of these things rather then them being entirely silent. For instance in my current understanding, Genji is actually based on Ronove (an archetype that exists within the writer's mind), not the other way around. |
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2012-01-02, 14:43 | Link #26842 | |
The True Culprit
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2012-01-02, 16:55 | Link #26843 | |
Dribble.....SHOOTOH!
Join Date: Feb 2006
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I thought she had an interesting motive, though, and I could understand her twisted thought process, which is what I really want in a motive. That's my biggest issue with Umineko, that I can't figure out what anyone's internal logic might be. I can get as far as understanding why Yasu would want to do a mystery game, and that's about it. I hope Ryukishi includes more interactive elements in his future games. I thought Bern's puzzle was terrifically fun, and I even enjoyed the Layton style puzzles despite never being much a fan of the Layton games. I think it was the sense I got that many of them were trying to tell you something about the story and weren't just puzzles for the sake of having puzzles. |
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2012-01-02, 17:49 | Link #26844 | |
天界の異端審問官
Join Date: Apr 2011
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Not that I think she committed any murder in Rokkenjima prime. The epitaph was probably solved soon enough. |
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2012-01-02, 18:00 | Link #26845 |
The True Culprit
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That's not actually true. She technically addressed that money to deceased people, such as Rudolf Ushiromiya. Perhaps her intention was to mail the payments for those who assisted her in the Murder Mystery Game, and a real tragedy happening caused people to assign more sinister ideas to the money transfer.
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2012-01-02, 18:13 | Link #26846 |
天界の異端審問官
Join Date: Apr 2011
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If that's the case, I can't imagine any other viable solutions for letting the bomb explode other than the adults quarreling about the 10tons of gold. With guns. And messing somehow with the detonation switch. If Yasu just wanted to have a murder mystery party with her family, she surely wouldn't have turned the switch on. And we can't possibly think of her not knowing about it, since it was explained to her when she solved the epitaph.
Unless of course we assume that the bomb somehow went off on its own exactly at midnight because of malfunctioning, but that's kind of...meh. I'd really like to hear some theory that involves no one being at fault, as I really wish to believe that what happened on Rokkenjima prime was just an accident. Last edited by RedKey; 2012-01-02 at 18:26. |
2012-01-02, 18:33 | Link #26847 |
The True Culprit
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Here's an idea. There was a Murder Mystery Game and Yasu didn't intend for any hijinks, but let's say one of the adults took the opportunity to get away with murder. Perhaps Yasu didn't imagine anyone would live after like half of them were dead or something, so she set off the bomb thinking "Well I'm not going to let the culprit get away with it!"
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2012-01-02, 20:26 | Link #26849 | |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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2012-01-02, 20:28 | Link #26850 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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A complex and ingenious plan is not something you cannot expect from a schizophrenic, in fact psychotic individuals tend to be more intelligent than the norm. Now if we are talking about common sense, that's another issue completely, but what part of Yasu's plan relied on common sense? In her fantasies some kind of divine interventions made everything go "well" for her, but we know in reality something went wrong.
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Last edited by Jan-Poo; 2012-01-02 at 20:43. |
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2012-01-02, 21:01 | Link #26851 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Since it was a secret project it can be the survivors didn't know what they were carrying and, differently from the gold, they didn't bother removing it from the submarine when it started sinking after they reached Rokkenjima. Then the mess with the gold happens time goes on and when the Japanese government check the base because Kinzo wants to buy Rokkenjima the submarine is completely sunk. Nobody thinks it's carrying an incomplete bomb of such power, fishing it up/repairing it, isn't possible/would be too expensive, telling the Italian government to come get its own submarine might lead to explaining why they weren't told about it previously so it's left there... In 1986 the bad weather and the time that's gone cause the bomb/explosive/whatever to explode. Radiations might be minor maybe because the bomb work in a different mode than the ones used on Hiroshima and Nagasaki or because since it exploded in the underground base and got buried under it somehow radiations didn't manage to spread or both. It might also explain why Eva died at such a young age. BTW Eva reached Kuwadorian because she solved the epitaph short time before the bomb went off and so she found the passage for Kuwadorian. Battler solved it short after her but took the wrong tunnel. When the bomb went off he tried returning back but, as there were no survivors, he went in shock and escaped from the island. Later he's involved in the car incident with Ikuko. As for Yasu she was waiting for Eva at Kuwadorian, handed her the ring of the head then tried returning back. Funnily enough she managed not to cross path with Battler and, out of guilt for having thought up tales in which the whole family was killed, once she sees they're all dead, she fleed and took the identity she had previously prepared as she didn't plan to kill herself after that family conference, just to disappear. Luckily/unluckily enough she almost run over Battler with 'her' car but he has forgotten everything. Eva has no idea who blasted the house away but might suspect Rudolf did as he was in serious financial troubles and had tie with shady business. So she decides to hide everything from Ange. However: even though it's an historical thing that the Axis was also trying to build a final weapon there's no real hint that's what the submarine was carrying so I guess this can't be used in Umineko (even if it would be more logic than Japanese government leaving Kinzo so much explosive, Kinzo building a self destruction mechanism for his house and Italian government trying to hide gold in Japan). In an interview it was said: Quote:
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2012-01-03, 01:12 | Link #26854 | ||
Goat
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima
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No murders, but still quite a few cases of manslaughter. |
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2012-01-03, 05:50 | Link #26855 |
a.k.a. Akari_House
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere near Seattle
Age: 53
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Argh. Animesuki timed out on me and ate my lengthy post. Dammit.
Its late so I'll just sum up some key points I had written out: 1. I agree the switch is part of the key to Prime. I think it was either left in an unknown state (a la cat-box writ large) somehow (hence showing Eva's skepticism of the switch in ep 7), or Eva deliberately used it either in self defense or to cover up her family's crimes she witnessed. I do believe the scenario that Eva is innocent but taking the brunt of the accusations to shield Ange. 2. I believe also that the epitaph was solved early. But what I am speculating is that this happened after Yasu had recruited her accomplices and set everything up. This led to a discord and confusion on the part of the accomplices who thought they would be cheated out of their prior deal, and hence the new series of fighting and possible murders. 3. I believe that murder story Yasu has plenty of motivation. She blames Nanjou and Genji for her present physiological state. She blames the family for driving Battler away and to him forgetting her. She basically can construct reasons to blame just about all her issues on everyone else there as needed. Everything is present to make her into a villain for the sake of her plot. Everything but love. Love is the magic that Yasu needs to escape from becoming the Golden Slaughterer in the end. Battler does come through, so she does not commit the crimes, but she had planned them all the same, and the island is still blown up.
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2012-01-03, 06:02 | Link #26857 | |
a.k.a. Akari_House
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere near Seattle
Age: 53
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Basically, Yasu is thinking as a culprit, because she needs to become one for her story. It's self-feeding and growing out of hand. She wants Battler to solve it early before she fully loses herself to this latest role she is playing. This may also be why it starts as a game, but becomes real by the end. Of course, she's hoping Battler will stop her, and may even deliberately slip up in Prime. edit: Maria also knew too much about Beatrice, plus was a "magical" rival. But I agree all these are stretching some. But that's kind of my point. Yasu is writing these game scenarios to cast herself as the villain, so she has something of a chip on her shoulder when it comes to self-victimization.
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Last edited by Ayu-ayu; 2012-01-03 at 06:20. Reason: more thoughts |
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2012-01-03, 06:37 | Link #26858 |
The True Culprit
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I just can't buy Yasu having the capability of murdering people so callously, especially if she's literally doing it for fun and self-gratification.
This is the same girl, afterall, too timid to make a phonecall, and Zero Beatrice (Basically Yasu) was literally unable to work up the nerve to kill Natsuhi.
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2012-01-03, 08:27 | Link #26860 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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