Mobile Suit Gundam (0079) - TV and Movie Discussion

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Rawinder

Wow, I feel exactly the opposite. I don't think the plot is all that great (kind of hard to criticize, though, since the show was the first of its kind)

That would sort of depend on what you mean by plot, and what you think makes for a good one . In general, I'd define plot as the overarching tapestry that the show is hung on, and it's these broad strokes which hang together pretty well. So it'd be the big set-piece events as opposed to individual episodes. Since the events are iconic enough to be remember in great detail many years after the initial airing, it's obvious that they have a fairly strong hold.

Originally Posted by Rawinder

but the show still has one of the best--if not the best--cast of characters of any Gundam anime. Just the way the characters interact with one another feels very real. Zeta on the other hand, while still a great show, I always thought felt kind of forced in its character relationships.

I'd agree that Zeta's character relationships are a bit forced, but that has little to do with how interesting the characters themselves are. The Mobile Suit Gundam characters tend to be fairly one-note or they are unlikable jerks like Amuro. The main exception to this is Kai as he seems much more like a person than the rest of the lot.

I do admit that I've only watched the English-dub (and I never watch dubs as a rule), so I may be missing some characterization there.

Originally Posted by Obi-Wan

Well, as per the norm with Tomino, most supporting characters tend to be killed off just as you're starting to like them. But I do agree that there is a lot to like or find interesting about Kai. I especially like how he goes from pretty much a real-life troll on the White Base to an all-business soldier after he loses Miharu on their way out of Belfast. And it's not like he sells out to the military or anything, he's still himself, but accepts his fate as a pilot.

Precisely - that's what makes Kai an authentic-feeling character.

Originally Posted by Obi-Wan

I can see going with the film version of MSG from a corner-cutting standpoint, but I truly prefer the series. The editing in the second movie is downright awful at times and I don't like the reordering of events, or the fact that M'quve is essentially given a get out of jail free card at the end of the third movie.

Ah. I haven't gotten that far yet, but that was what I was afraid of. One of the things that I did like about the TV series is that it doesn't seem to suffer from the Tominoism that plagues his later shows. However, it's the kind of direction that's more likely to pop up in the movie adaptation. I'd imagine that the distillation of the English dub of the TV version might have something to do with that as well.

Originally Posted by Obi-Wan

They're fine to get the story in and don't suffer from content loss the way every other compilation film set do (save maybe the Destiny one). In the TV version, you get to see a little more of the relationship between Amuro and Sayla, Mirai is a little more fleshed out (I believe the part about Bright getting sick and her having to take over is omitted from the movies, but I could be wrong)

I'm not sure that any of this would be all that great a loss as neither Sayla nor Mirai are particularly interesting characters, nor is the interaction among the crew all that great. And in losing these elements to get rid of all that G-Armor stuff, I'd have to say the trade-off is well worth it.

Originally Posted by Obi-Wan

Overall they're both fine, but the TV series is more of a nostalgia factor for me and that's why I prefer it.

I only watched the Mobile Suit Gundam TV version about four years ago, so there's no nostalgia factor at play. Still, I thought that it was pretty decent - the only mar on the whole thing was that ending (let's have a sword-fight for no reason). Overall, it was definitely one of the better Gundam shows.

[Rawinder]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

That would sort of depend on what you mean by plot, and what you think makes for a good one . In general, I'd define plot as the overarching tapestry that the show is hung on, and it's these broad strokes which hang together pretty well. So it'd be the big set-piece events as opposed to individual episodes. Since the events are iconic enough to be remember in great detail many years after the initial airing, it's obvious that they have a fairly strong hold.

Well it's not like I said the plot was bad or anything; it's certainly better than, oh, say SEED. I just didn't think it was as great or as compelling as Zeta or G (which, imo, is the most tightly written/directed Gundam series ever). Though I don't think there is an "overarching tapestry" to the show; at best, the show's stories are structured in more of an arc format.

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I'd agree that Zeta's character relationships are a bit forced, but that has little to do with how interesting the characters themselves are.

Those character interactions go a long way for me. I first saw 0079 over twenty years after it first came out, so I already knew beforehand who these characters were and how they would end up at the end of the series. So for me, I found the way the characters interacted with one another far more compelling than individual character arcs (I like Victory for the same thing, though for a slightly different reason). The way the Amuro, Sayla, Kai, Bright, Mirai, and Hayato all play off each other feels very real and believable to me, and that goes far for me.

Originally Posted by 4Tran

The Mobile Suit Gundam characters tend to be fairly one-note or they are unlikable jerks like Amuro. The main exception to this is Kai as he seems much more like a person than the rest of the lot.

Amuro, like Kamille, starts off as kind of annoying and jerky at the beginning of the series (though I found Amuro way more bearable than Kamille), but they both mature as the show goes on, which I can appreciate. Besides, Amuro always/usually ended up getting reprimanded for anything stupid he did.

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I only watched the Mobile Suit Gundam TV version about four years ago, so there's no nostalgia factor at play. Still, I thought that it was pretty decent - the only mar on the whole thing was that ending (let's have a sword-fight for no reason). Overall, it was definitely one of the better Gundam shows.

The bigger issue I had with the ending was that Char totally disappears right shooting Kycillia. The sword fight was pretty dumb, though. I'm not sure why Tomino insists of having his characters get out and fight each other one-on-one during the big climax (same thing happened in Zeta and CCA), it's always so random.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Rawinder

Well it's not like I said the plot was bad or anything; it's certainly better than, oh, say SEED. I just didn't think it was as great or as compelling as Zeta or G (which, imo, is the most tightly written/directed Gundam series ever). Though I don't think there is an "overarching tapestry" to the show; at best, the show's stories are structured in more of an arc format.

I don't want to elaborate on it here, but I think that Zeta's plot was downright terrible, and I'm not really interested in commenting on G Gundam. Where Mobile Suit Gundam's plot shines has nothing to do with how it's structured - it has to do with what it accomplishes, and how smoothly the different points flow from one to the next. In comparison, most Gundam shows are weak in that they use bare frameworks as a backdrop for the action sequences, but there is little in the way of progression and advancement.

The overarching tapestry that I refer to would consist of the major events in the war, from the initial battles in space, to Garma get killed, to Odessa, to Jaburo, to Solomon, and so on. Throughout the show, there's a strong sense that there are all sorts of events happening, and that there's a lot of movement in play; and not as if these events are only there so that the creators can tell stories about White Base.

Originally Posted by Rawinder

Amuro, like Kamille, starts off as kind of annoying and jerky at the beginning of the series (though I found Amuro way more bearable than Kamille), but they both mature as the show goes on, which I can appreciate. Besides, Amuro always/usually ended up getting reprimanded for anything stupid he did.

I'm not sure how Amuro getting punished is supposed to make me like him any more. Amuro started out as a whiny punk, and his attitude only got worse up until about the 1/3rd mark. After that, he never gave me any cause to think any better of his character. On the other hand, Amuro was my favorite character in Zeta.

[brightman]

I'll have to agree with 4Tran. Plotwise MSG was as solid as it gets in this franchise. You get the sense that the story takes place in a greater context, but without feeling too detached from the overall conflict; that the creators really thought through the setting of the show well, and as a result it is not a haphazardly slapping together of half-baked ideas that some of the other shows are. Of course, there are still problems with execution and some Tomino-esque illogicalness with certain plot details.

The best part about it though is the fact that it accomplishes what Tomino seemed to set out to do, which is to demonstrate the real effects of war on people. Its not the in-your-face deathfest that his other Gundam shows tend to be, but the feeling of depressed destitute that comes with a war that has killed half the human population. The Earth arc was a great example of this, with the mother and child trying to get back to their hometown, only to find out that its become a lake, the whole situation with Amuro returning home only to find that everything has changed, heck, even the infamous salt episode where a lake just disappears only to turn up miles away, it shows the devastation and unnatural changes caused by war.

MSG is certainly not the best politically driven Gundam, and its handling of military life is laughable at best, but nevertheless, in my view its depiction of war is unmatched in Gundam series to date.

As far as characters go though, I'll have to agree that Tomino seemed to go out of his way to make them as unlikable and annoying as possible at times. The three kids are the biggest culprit, but IMO had this show been released during the age of Internet, Amuro would have had more criticism than any anime lead today, and a fraction of his popularity. Also a major problem is the depiction of female characters. Frau and Sayla are both depicted as weak and overly attached to males. Character interaction, as brought up earlier, was severely lacking in development and is one of the more outdated parts of the show. So in a way this part of the show did age poorly.

[Rawinder]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

The overarching tapestry that I refer to would consist of the major events in the war, from the initial battles in space, to Garma get killed, to Odessa, to Jaburo, to Solomon, and so on. Throughout the show, there's a strong sense that there are all sorts of events happening, and that there's a lot of movement in play; and not as if these events are only there so that the creators can tell stories about White Base.

Okay, I see what you're saying. I agree too, I guess I just misinterpreted what you meant by "overarching tapestry."

Originally Posted by brightman

As far as characters go though, I'll have to agree that Tomino seemed to go out of his way to make them as unlikable and annoying as possible at times. The three kids are the biggest culprit, but IMO had this show been released during the age of Internet, Amuro would have had more criticism than any anime lead today, and a fraction of his popularity. Also a major problem is the depiction of female characters. Frau and Sayla are both depicted as weak and overly attached to males. Character interaction, as brought up earlier, was severely lacking in development and is one of the more outdated parts of the show. So in a way this part of the show did age poorly.

Am I the only one who liked the characters on this show? I never really thought any of the characters were unlikeable, except for Amuro early in the series (as I stated before). I actually didn't find the kids all that annoying, since they rarely interfere with the plot and really aren't all that terrible--they're far more tolerable than, say, Shinta and Qum. Of course Katz ends up growing into a totally unlikeable character, but that's a different show.

I don't agree with your criticism of the female characters either. I don't think Fraw or Sayla were weak or clingy; if anything, they were just the opposite. Fraw acts as more of a mother-figure to Amuro rather than the token love interest, and Sayla always remains steadfast in her position even when faced with the task of fighting her brother. If anything, 0079 has one of the stronger female casts of any Gundam show (or at least a Tomino Gundam show). They aren't bitchy like most of the women in Zeta, or as short-lived as the women in Victory.

Also, if your "brought up earlier" remark about character interactions was a reference to me, I think you might have misunderstood me. I thought the character interactions were one of the highlights of the series, and had a kind of dynamic that Tomino was never able to replicate again (except for maybe Turn-A, but I've seen very little of that show).

[Obi-Wan]

Katz, Letz and Kikka have a leg up on Shinta and Qum because those three actually helped out on the White Base and were genuinely funny at times. Shinta and Qum more or less considered the Argama a playground and were quite annoying. They did become a little more tolerable in Double Zeta, but the story forced them into that position because everyone else was killed during the Gryps war.

If you're looking for great characterization during the OYW era, MSG TV isn't the best place to look. You're better off checking out 08th MS Team or War in the Pocket. MSG is mostly about the trials of war, and later on about the rise of Newtypes, but there are a few good characters here and there. Garma Zabi is one of my favorites because Tomino goes out of the way to portray the other Zabis as unlikable, murderous bastards while it seems Garma is only in it out of some sort of moral obligation to his family. His character is a metaphor for anyone who has ever been forced into a family business and eventually wanted out to start their own life. But as I said earlier, in typical Tomino fashion, he is killed in the same episode you start to like him. It's sad that his type of character, the bishounen mid-boss, has devolved into the likes of Clovis Brittania, though.

[Rawinder]

Originally Posted by Obi-Wan

If you're looking for great characterization during the OYW era, MSG TV isn't the best place to look. You're better off checking out 08th MS Team or War in the Pocket.

No argument here. Those two have always been my favorite Gundam stories, in no small part because of their characters.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Rawinder

Am I the only one who liked the characters on this show? I never really thought any of the characters were unlikeable, except for Amuro early in the series (as I stated before). I actually didn't find the kids all that annoying, since they rarely interfere with the plot and really aren't all that terrible--they're far more tolerable than, say, Shinta and Qum. Of course Katz ends up growing into a totally unlikeable character, but that's a different show.

They're more tolerable, but that are still annoying, and feel extremely out of place. At least Shinta and Qum fit in quite well in ZZ.

When you have a leaky ship like the White Base that constantly have enemy troops getting inside and try to kill everybody, having little kids running around screaming stupid stuff out just kills the atmosphere.

And I do like quite a few characters in the show. I like the way Amuro and Kai developed. Char was (and always is) a compelling and enigmatic character, and there are a few likeable side characters throughout the show, though many of the other side characters do tend to lack depth.

I don't agree with your criticism of the female characters either. I don't think Fraw or Sayla were weak or clingy; if anything, they were just the opposite. Fraw acts as more of a mother-figure to Amuro rather than the token love interest, and Sayla always remains steadfast in her position even when faced with the task of fighting her brother. If anything, 0079 has one of the stronger female casts of any Gundam show (or at least a Tomino Gundam show). They aren't bitchy like most of the women in Zeta, or as short-lived as the women in Victory.

I think I'll just mention how many times Fraw says "Amuro!" and how many times Sayla says "Casval" and leave it at that. I don't think its a problem with their personalities themselves, more so the way they are depicted. I like the way Sayla is depicted in Gundam Origins for example (even though she is essentially the same character), but in the TV series at least she is just depicted to be way too obsessed with Casval, to the point of being annoying.

Also, if your "brought up earlier" remark about character interactions was a reference to me, I think you might have misunderstood me. I thought the character interactions were one of the highlights of the series, and had a kind of dynamic that Tomino was never able to replicate again (except for maybe Turn-A, but I've seen very little of that show).

No, I was (at least I think I was) agreeing with whoever it was criticizing it.

I just never felt any chemistry between any of the White Base crew. Relationships didn't seem to develop much, and there never seemed to be much comradery between any of the pilots. The crew did mature individually, but there was never really any sense of them coming together even though they've basically went through hell together. By large, the character interaction just seemed mostly dated and lacked meaning.

[Obi-Wan]

Are there any good female characters in the main Universal Century canon? Seems like all of them have their own set of flaws. I do agree that Sayla was much too obsessed with her brother, so bad in fact that during one of the first battles when they returned to space, she had a clean shot on a Zeon mobile armor and backed off solely because she thought Char was the pilot. My favorite example of a worthless female in UC is Reccoa Londe, who pulled an about face and defected to the enemy almost exclusively because Char did not take off his sunglasses when he kissed her.

Fraw and Amuro are a more tame version of Kamille and Fa, although I don't think Amuro ever thought of Fraw as more than a friend. Fraw was looking for more, which was why she ended up giving Hayato the proverbial sympathy fuck. But in the end I think she found what she was looking for. I did like how she always raged at Amuro for being nonchalant about his new responsibilities on the White Base, someone needed to put that emo bastard in his place. By the end of the series, Amuro doesn't even care that Fraw and Hayato are flirting with each other, even pretty much giving them his blessing without actually saying those words.

[Rawinder]

Originally Posted by brightman

They're more tolerable, but that are still annoying, and feel extremely out of place. At least Shinta and Qum fit in quite well in ZZ.

Can't argue with that. Two annoying characters do fit in quite well in an annoying show.

Originally Posted by brightman

I think I'll just mention how many times Fraw says "Amuro!" and how many times Sayla says "Casval" and leave it at that. I don't think its a problem with their personalities themselves, more so the way they are depicted. I like the way Sayla is depicted in Gundam Origins for example (even though she is essentially the same character), but in the TV series at least she is just depicted to be way too obsessed with Casval, to the point of being annoying.

I don't necessarily disagree, I just personally never found them annoying and actually rather liked Sayla (not so much Fraw), which is more than I can say for a lot of female characters in Gundam.

Originally Posted by brightman

No, I was (at least I think I was) agreeing with whoever it was criticizing it.

I just never felt any chemistry between any of the White Base crew. Relationships didn't seem to develop much, and there never seemed to be much comradery between any of the pilots. The crew did mature individually, but there was never really any sense of them coming together even though they've basically went through hell together. By large, the character interaction just seemed mostly dated and lacked meaning.

Eh, to each his own. I just finished watching the series a month ago, for the first time in years, and was really surprised at how well the core group of characters worked together. As I said, it felt natural and believable to me, and was a nice breath of fresh air from other shows where the group dynamic feels forced.

Originally Posted by Obi-Wan

Are there any good female characters in the main Universal Century canon? Seems like all of them have their own set of flaws. I do agree that Sayla was much too obsessed with her brother, so bad in fact that during one of the first battles when they returned to space, she had a clean shot on a Zeon mobile armor and backed off solely because she thought Char was the pilot. My favorite example of a worthless female in UC is Reccoa Londe, who pulled an about face and defected to the enemy almost exclusively because Char did not take off his sunglasses when he kissed her.

Ugh, I always hated that. Most of the women in Zeta are unbearable to watch, the only good ones from that series that I can think of are Emma and Haman (who is pretty much ruined in ZZ anyway).

As for your question, I think most female characters in UC end up doing at least one annoying thing or have one annoying trait. The only exception I can think of is Christina Mackenzie from 0080.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Obi-Wan

Are there any good female characters in the main Universal Century canon? Seems like all of them have their own set of flaws.

Marbet Fingerhat didn't really have a flaw, and she was definitely one of the better female characters in Tomino's UC shows.

I guess if we're talking about MSG, Mirai Yashima wasn't too bad. Though in the movies it seemed as if she had a new relationship with a different man every 5 minutes.

Originally Posted by Rawinder

The wasted potential is not what bothers me most about ZZ (though it does bother me). What annoys me most about that show is the childish tone it takes for many of its episodes; it's annoying in of itself, but it's doubly worse because it trivializes and even disrespects what came beforehand in Zeta.

I disagree in calling the tone "childish"... Something light-hearted or slap-sticky does not mean "childish"... I find shows that tend to be preachy and lack subtlety much more childish, and that even applies to some of the other Gundam series.

I also don't think it "disrespects" anything. Its meant to be a different show from Zeta, and just because that particular show took itself way too seriously, doesn't mean its sequel have to. After all, even MSG itself had its fair-share of slapstick and laughs.

[4Tran]

I punted the posts talking exclusively about ZZ to the Gundam ZZ Discussion.

Originally Posted by brightman

I'll have to agree with 4Tran. Plotwise MSG was as solid as it gets in this franchise. You get the sense that the story takes place in a greater context, but without feeling too detached from the overall conflict; that the creators really thought through the setting of the show well, and as a result it is not a haphazardly slapping together of half-baked ideas that some of the other shows are. Of course, there are still problems with execution and some Tomino-esque illogicalness with certain plot details.

That's precisely it. Out of all the Gundam TV shows, Mobile Suit Gundam is the one that is the most restrained, and yet it also possesses the grandest vision as well. While I might have issue with some of the show's other elements, the plot is quite good overall.

Originally Posted by Rawinder

I don't agree with your criticism of the female characters either. I don't think Fraw or Sayla were weak or clingy; if anything, they were just the opposite. Fraw acts as more of a mother-figure to Amuro rather than the token love interest, and Sayla always remains steadfast in her position even when faced with the task of fighting her brother. If anything, 0079 has one of the stronger female casts of any Gundam show (or at least a Tomino Gundam show). They aren't bitchy like most of the women in Zeta, or as short-lived as the women in Victory.

While I wouldn't complain about the female characters in Mobile Suit Gundam as being weak or clingy, I would complain about them being uninteresting and relatively nondescript. For example, I can recall Sayla being the pilot of the G-Armor, but I can't recall her actually contributing much character-wise.

Originally Posted by Rawinder

Also, if your "brought up earlier" remark about character interactions was a reference to me, I think you might have misunderstood me. I thought the character interactions were one of the highlights of the series, and had a kind of dynamic that Tomino was never able to replicate again (except for maybe Turn-A, but I've seen very little of that show).

I would counter this with Victory Gundam, although that discussion is more suited for a different thread.

Originally Posted by Obi-Wan

Are there any good female characters in the main Universal Century canon? Seems like all of them have their own set of flaws.

There are a few interesting/entertaining female characters in Zeta, but it's Victory before I'd say that any of the female characters can be considered honestly good. Chan in Char's Counterattack was pretty good as well, but her character wasn't given all that much to do.

Originally Posted by brightman

I guess if we're talking about MSG, Mirai Yashima wasn't too bad. Though in the movies it seemed as if she had a new relationship with a different man every 5 minutes.

Mirai was okay, but again, she wasn't really interesting enough for me to consider very good. Her character was more important in that it was there and that it had a role to play, than that it had things to do. In other words, her actual level of interaction was either on the low side, or it was so low-key that I've forgotten any salient points about it.

[Rawinder]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I would counter this with Victory Gundam, although that discussion is more suited for a different thread.

The kind of dynamic I'm referring to is a group of characters who barely know each other (if they do at all), don't instantly gel together, and have to--over time--learn to work with each other. In Victory, the show begins with Uso and the other kids already as friends and the League soldiers already as colleagues. Not to say the characters in Victory or Zeta or ZZ always got along with each other, I just found 0079's scenario of a group of relative strangers learning to work together more interesting.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Rawinder

In Victory, the show begins with Uso and the other kids already as friends and the League soldiers already as colleagues.

That's incorrect. Uso & Shakti didn't know the rest of the kids nor the Camion crew, as seen in Ep 2.

[Rawinder]

Originally Posted by brightman

That's incorrect. Uso & Shakti didn't know the rest of the kids nor the Camion crew, as seen in Ep 2.

I know they didn't know the Camion crew (those are the League soldiers I was referring to, and why I drew a distinction between them and "Uso and the other kids"). But Uso and Shakti weren't already friends with Odelo and Warren at the beginning of the series? I could have sworn they were.

My mistake then.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Rawinder

But Uso and Shakti weren't already friends with Odelo and Warren at the beginning of the series? I could have sworn they were.

Nope, the first time (chronologically) they met was in Ep 2, when Odelo/Warren/Suzy snuck inside Uso & Shakti's cabin to steal food.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Rawinder

The kind of dynamic I'm referring to is a group of characters who barely know each other (if they do at all), don't instantly gel together, and have to--over time--learn to work with each other.

In that case, what you're referring to isn't character interaction in general, but a specific style of group dynamics. It's not a question of quality, but of directional preference. And Tomino wasn't unable to duplicate this setup (leaving aside the question of whether he did so or not) so much as he was simply going for something else.

As far as the quality of the interaction goes, I found most of the characters to be uninteresting, and so the matter of their interaction wasn't particularly important (or even memorable). It's an area where Mobile Suit Gundam was beaten out by its successors. However, the antagonists and side characters fare a lot better. We have characters who only show up for 3-5 episodes making large impacts like Ramba Ral, and Garma and the Zabis, while MSG's immediate successors fared a lot worse.

If you look to other areas like themes and setting, MSG is a lot better here than its successors as well. For a thirty-year old show, MSG really does hold up quite well; certainly moreso than Zeta and ZZ, and its strong points are something that modern Gundam shows can learn from (but usually ignore ). The show doesn't fare quite so well with some of the mecha shows in early '80s, but most of them are (sadly) largely forgotten now.

[Rawinder]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

In that case, what you're referring to isn't character interaction in general, but a specific style of group dynamics. It's not a question of quality, but of directional preference. And Tomino wasn't unable to duplicate this setup (leaving aside the question of whether he did so or not) so much as he was simply going for something else.

Since I find 0079's character interactions more compelling and believable than those in Zeta, ZZ, or Victory, I would argue that Tomino was unable to duplicate that kind of chemistry. He may have been going for a different group dynamic in those later shows, but I doubt his aim was to deliberately do something less compelling or less believable, which is how the interactions in Zeta/ZZ/Victory come off as to me.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Rawinder

Since I find 0079's character interactions more compelling and believable than those in Zeta, ZZ, or Victory, I would argue that Tomino was unable to duplicate that kind of chemistry.

That may well be true, but the only example you've given so far is "The kind of dynamic I'm referring to is a group of characters who barely know each other (if they do at all), don't instantly gel together, and have to--over time--learn to work with each other"; which is an altogther different subject. Do you have any actual examples of Mobile Suit Gundam having compelling or believable character interations?

[Rawinder]

Just a few: Amuro's begrudging acceptance of Bright's command; Kai being a smart ass and butting heads with the other pilots; Mirai acting as Bright's better half (and I don't mean in a romantic way); Bright acting steadfast towards others even though he's not always sure of himself; Ryu trying to hold together a bunch of kids who are usually at odds with each other; and I could go on. Even something simple, like Amuro and Sayla's conversation about the G-Armor modes and Sayla's piloting skills (or lack thereof), or Amuro saying he'll cover for Kai when he hides Miharu, sounds genuine to me. There are a million other examples because the characters are (obviously) constantly interacting with one another, and do so over the course of 40+ episodes; and many times, even the most minute or understated moments between characters feels real.

It's not like I'm telling you you have to see things my way or anything, I'm just saying I thought the relationships between characters in 0079 felt more natural and believable than some of the relationships in later shows.

I do agree with your remark about how effective characters like Char, Ramba Ral, and the Zabis were, especially since they were all (with the exception of Char) only around for a couple episodes. It's certainly a lot more than I can say (for example) for some of the Titans in Zeta, who barely register as characters (imo) and appear too infrequently for me to really think much of.