Sword Art Online - Episode 15 Discussion / Poll

[kyp275]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Guys, look. If they want to drop the series, let 'em. If they end up justified in doing so (i.e. quality drops from here on out) then they're justified. If it only gets better from here on out, we're not the ones who are missing out. No need to argue over why they want to leave if they're already convinced.

Of course, I couldn't care less if they drop it, it's their loss

but since this is a discussion forum, no harm in a little debate.

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

True. It's only when the trope is bad to begin with.

And you completely miss the point of my post. Objectively, no trope is inherently good or bad, it all depends on the context and how well the execution is.

Going by your logic, every story that is ever written is crap, because they all use one trope or another, and there is always someone out there who dislike a particular trope

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Mephos

Though I still don't get why people would drop this series because Asuna is unconscious in a hospital and trapped in a game which prevents her from doing anything in real life.

I think it's simply that people prefer when Asuna was a character fighting alongside Kirito, and they don't like that we're going to basically spend the next 10 episodes (or however long it takes) trying to get her back. Perhaps particularly given that the antagonist is sort of needlessly villainous. Some people just don't like that sort of plot. It's always possible that they could pick the story back up once this particular story is over.

Originally Posted by kyp275

And you completely miss the point of my post. Objectively, no trope is inherently good or bad, it all depends on the context and how well the execution is.

Going by your logic, every story that is ever written is crap, because they all use one trope or another, and there is always someone out there who dislike a particular trope

Probably no benefit in being so insistent about it, as you're just going to keep on provoking this pointless tangent. Obviously everything he's saying is just his opinion, so if he feels a trope is bad, then it just means he doesn't like it, and he may have his reasons. It doesn't prevent other people from enjoying the story.

Personally, I'm sort of neutral on this element, just because I think it's a bit formulaic and obvious. But there are other things I like about the story that make up for this. It's okay if others don't feel the same way.

[AyuAyu]

please, someone confirm that this "i love my onii-chan"-girl isn't replacing Asuna as the main heroine? that would really suck. who needs this love triangle?
not to mention this totally disgusting fiance-guy...
apart from that, the glimpses of the new world look great, hope the new game starts in the next episode.

[Esebian]

Quite a nice episode, I really love the new OP and ED, especially the OP.

Well, while Sugou is exactly that a**hole I expected him to be, it's the same for Sugu and her cuteness ^^

The kendo fight was just one thing...NICE. I really liked and it was quite well animated

The surprising thing imo was the pacing, I expected the E-mail sth around 5 mins earlier, maybe the pace is really done well for the rest of the series

And ofc the biggest change is the overall change in the mood, starting obviously from the OP everything (apart from that part with Sugou) is a bit livelier and maybe aswell friendlier, dunno how to make this clear but you simply feel the change in the mood ^^

[Lenneth4]

the new bad guy is awesome

but i dont get why kirito is angry xd
Actually he kinda stole the girl from him lmao

[Esebian]

Originally Posted by AyuAyu

please, someone confirm that this "i love my onii-chan"-girl isn't replacing Asuna as the main heroine? that would really suck. who needs this love triangle?
not to mention this totally disgusting fiance-guy...
apart from that, the glimpses of the new world look great, hope the new game starts in the next episode.

how should anybody confirm that without spoiling the hell out of you all? XD take that question to the Q&A Thread if you want to be spoiled, or wait until it is made clear in the anime or ofc per PM ^^

[creb]

Hrm, so as I suspected, there are more worlds (well, at least one), to explore, assuming the OP and the picture of Asuna at the end of this episode can be taken at face value.

Some thoughts:

* There are a number of things that I tend to feel uncomfortable about even after decades of watching anime, and this Japanese (or, at least, anime), fetish for brother/sister love is near the top of that list. Sure, he may technically be a cousin, but still. I realize the Japanese are about the most sexually repressed society on the planet, so I do try to make allowances, but ugh. I've always wondered if this is just a matter of cultural differences, or if it's pretty out there even in normal Japanese society. I've never been drunk enough to ask the few native Japanese people I've known these deeply intelligent questions.

* Why do glasses always mean the character is disturbed in some way?

* I hate elves, so I'm not too keen on all the elf ears in the OP.

* I'm guessing the blonde girl in the OP is his "sister". If the creepy brother/sister love really is going to be a thing, then I guess we're in for a love triangle, especially if the rest of the season is spent on a search for Asuna, thereby giving the brother/sister love time to develop. Ugh.

Oh well, I'm hoping for the best, but the cynic within me can't help but think this new arc is going to be inferior to the first 14 episodes.

[SilverSyko]

Originally Posted by Esebian

And ofc the biggest change is the overall change in the mood, starting obviously from the OP everything (apart from that part with Sugou) is a bit livelier and maybe aswell friendlier, dunno how to make this clear but you simply feel the change in the mood ^^

Oh I felt a change in mood alright, though not a "happy" or "lively" one. This episode was pretty serious in tone if you ask me.


And on the topic of Asuna's current "damsel in distress" situation; if all she was created for in the first place is just be something for the hero to rescue, then I'd be pissed off, but she's proven herself to be a strong young woman in past episodes. Everyone has times they get into a situation they can't save themselves from, and Asuna is currently in one of those.

[Kamui04]

Originally Posted by Awrya

Build his first computer with scrap parts at six? When I was six all I did was watching DBZ, Digimon and Pokemon

AW introduces Noumi Seiji SAO Sugou Nobuyuki in the second half. Kawahara seems to really like these kinds of characters as antagonists.

Lol that some kid get interested in something at an early age isn't uncommon. I was playing with old school Meccano at 3. And at 6 y/o I had an Atari and Commodore computers, back then you had to program your own games or copy code from magazines, in which many cases you ended up correcting for printed mistakes or although it was the same language, Basic, there were differences from brand to brand or model to model.


[mod edit: removed hint about where the story is heading]

[kaizerknight01]

Arrgg i want to strangle that NTR blackmailing a**hole and feed him to the shark/lion or beta

[Seiryuu]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Asuna could be raped by Sugou in her hospital room at the any moment. It would make sense, but would that make for a good story?

No.

And I'm not implying Asuna's gonna be raped, btw. All I'm saying is making sense =! good. Shitty tropes are shitty tropes.


Now if you like it, good for you.

One thing learned from tropes is there's rarely a concrete "good" or "bad" as far as the trope itself is concerned. It's all a matter of what you do with it. For instance, rape could be done quite well or quite poorly. The idea has to fit the scenario well enough that the audience can believe it, but it also indeed has to be done well. And almost any trope can be pulled off if you've got the talent, just like any trope that we'd prefer instead of current implications could easily crash and burn in a spectacular explosion of suck. Basically, I agree that certain tropes here would be risky, such as DID (especially when the DID used to be a battle goddess); still, don't throw in the towel because you think the setting's doomed to fail.

On another note, I don't know what Sugou was like in the LN, but the way he's being presented so far makes him look very stupid. While it's often best to tell the truth to a certain degree even when you're the villain, there are times when painting a completely different picture is quite useful. While Kazuto probably wouldn't buy it, it may have been better for Sugou to tell him that Asuna and he had had a great relationship before SAO, emphasizing the fact that Kazuto's relationship had been built around an environment and lifestyle that's nothing but fantasy and all the ways Sugou could make her "happy". If he'd painted a good enough picture, he may have gotten Kazuto to doubt himself when it counts.

It's just not smart to tell the guy that his plans are all for personal gain without regard for Asuna's feelings, and that the plan would immediately collapse if Asuna were to wake up and speak her own mind. Instead of telling Kazuto that he's already lost and admitting defeat is best for everyone, he actually told the guy that the girl's been caged and he has a specific length of time in which to free her. What kind of villain actually tries to get the hero to fight?

[Krono]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

It does make sense because of what he went on to say: that, basically, Asuna is his, and he doesn't want Kirito to see her anymore. Because the engagement is apparently blessed by her father (even though it's not a marriage), Kazuto figures he isn't able to object (because he's an outsider -- the only one who could stop it is Asuna herself).

Really, just watch the episode and it will all make sense.

The logical problem there is that if it doesn't actually do anything, when Asuna finally wakes up she can just repudiate the whole thing saying that she'll never agree to marry Nobuyuki. He even admits to knowing that if she was awake, she'd reject it. And he shouldn't be able to actively deny Kirito access seeing as Asuna's father approves of him visiting her.

So Kirito treating it as though it means he can never be with her, as well as the whole situation (beyond her simply having an arranged fiancée) is probably the single weakest plot point the author's come up with in the entirety of the series. It's really just best to ignore it as much as possible.

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Speaking of Suguha, I think she's the second thing that was portrayed very clearly in the anime. I think whatever small feelings she might have had for Kazuto before were certainly amplified by him being stuck in a coma for two years and now coming back.

It probably ought to be noted that back in episode four, Kirito told Silica that he didn't think his sister knew they were really cousins, yet she clearly knows it in the conversation with their mother. Nor is she treating it like shocking new information she's just been told, they're just casually discussing it.

It's sort of like making up for time lost. But the fact that his heart is still somewhere else even though he's finally back is that much more painful for her. I can definitely buy the way she was portrayed in the episode. The mix of present time and flashbacks was pretty well done. (The only thing that was a bit funny at first is that Suguha doesn't seem to really understand what happened in SAO, but they also say later that it's considered bad to talk about it, so perhaps he hasn't yet told her all the stories beyond the essentials.)

Well, it is two years very busy years of his life, and there are probably a lot of stories that he wouldn't be in a rush to tell. Kind of like a war veteran in that manner. And details like his habits in combat, and the weight of swords wouldn't be conveyed by most stories.

[Solafighter]

The better, this anime gets, the harder it is to wait 7 days for the next episode. God dammit!

New OP 1+
Developing story 1++
New ED 1+++

As a novel reader, its interesting to see, how things are shown in the anime. Im not disappointed! And it has been a while, i liked an ED.

Someone certainly must recreate Kirito's pc wallpaper. I want it!!

[Belgaesh]

Great episode. Suguha is so lovely, Asuna being literally the "Sleeping Beauty" that may awaken with a kiss of the prince Kirito (that won't happen though ).

The OP and ED were great, loved them more than the first ones.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Seiryuu

What kind of villain actually tries to get the hero to fight?

I suppose the easy answer is "one who foolishly thinks he's unstoppable". I agree with you that he definitely seems not too bright, despite being in research. I guess working on this VR stuff drives people crazy.

Originally Posted by Krono

The logical problem there is that if it doesn't actually do anything, when Asuna finally wakes up she can just repudiate the whole thing saying that she'll never agree to marry Nobuyuki. He even admits to knowing that if she was awake, she'd reject it. And he shouldn't be able to actively deny Kirito access seeing as Asuna's father approves of him visiting her.

So Kirito treating it as though it means he can never be with her, as well as the whole situation (beyond her simply having an arranged fiancée) is probably the single weakest plot point the author's come up with in the entirety of the series. It's really just best to ignore it as much as possible.

Valid points, I suppose. Perhaps a part of him is still insecure about their in-game relationship carrying over into the real world, since he realizes now that she has a life and obligations that pre-date her meeting him. He does seem to make it clear that it isn't something she'd choose, but still finds it inevitable. I guess I'll wait to see if he has deeper reasons, or if it's just irrational insecurity.

Originally Posted by Krono

It probably ought to be noted that back in episode four, Kirito told Silica that he didn't think his sister knew they were really cousins, yet she clearly knows it in the conversation with their mother. Nor is she treating it like shocking new information she's just been told, they're just casually discussing it.

Oh I wasn't trying to insinuate anything to the contrary there; sorry if I wasn't clear. (Actually, I'm not too clear how what you said follows from what I said... what did you think I meant? I just mean that she obviously loves him now, and probably loved him before. But losing him to a coma for two years probably makes her stick to him all the more now that he's finally back.)

[shadow1296]

Originally Posted by Krono

The logical problem there is that if it doesn't actually do anything, when Asuna finally wakes up she can just repudiate the whole thing saying that she'll never agree to marry Nobuyuki. He even admits to knowing that if she was awake, she'd reject it. .

valid point except once he's married to her he becomes the heir to the company, the main reason he's marrying her, and doesn't need her anymore and can just kill her and blame the nerve gear n heathcliff(forgot his real life name). so in truth kirito has one week to save asuna's life

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Krono

The logical problem there is that if it doesn't actually do anything, when Asuna finally wakes up she can just repudiate the whole thing saying that she'll never agree to marry Nobuyuki. He even admits to knowing that if she was awake, she'd reject it. And he shouldn't be able to actively deny Kirito access seeing as Asuna's father approves of him visiting her.

So Kirito treating it as though it means he can never be with her, as well as the whole situation (beyond her simply having an arranged fiancée) is probably the single weakest plot point the author's come up with in the entirety of the series. It's really just best to ignore it as much as possible.

That's assuming she ever wakes up. That's the rub. Sugou's the last straw, but the real issue is that Kirito's afraid he'll never see Asuna again and feels powerless to do anything about it. In the game world, he was the Black Swordsman, a hero who fought many bosses, including the last one. In the real world, he's just a scrawny kid.



I don't have much of a problem with Sugou. He's just your run of the mill sociopath who somehow with a great career. Plenty of examples in the real world, though hopefully those are less involved with comatose teenagers.

But what is wrong with Asuna's father? Let's say Sugou's great in both R&D and business. That he wants to inherit the company (despite Asuna having a brother) and is the most qualified. Fair enough. Let's say that for traditional reasons, it's necessary to welcome him into the Yuuki family. They can adopt him (which is what they do anyway). But why doesn't his eagerness to "marry" a comatose Asuna ring any alarm in her father's head? Why doesn't he decide Sugou should in no circumstance be allowed to be alone with her?

[Wandering_Youth]

A new change in the plot?! Man, I hope this ain't going to be like Guilty Crown where the later half of the show becomes crappy.

Interesting to see that Kirito/Kazuto actually retains some of his swordsmanship from the game.

I hope they show what happened to everyone Kirito knew and not leave that information out of the plot because that would be disappointing.

[MagicaLideaL]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Guys, look. If they want to drop the series, let 'em. If they end up justified in doing so (i.e. quality drops from here on out) then they're justified. If it only gets better from here on out, we're not the ones who are missing out. No need to argue over why they want to leave if they're already convinced.

Very well said. Somehow I am a little disappointed (but not to the extent of Kazu) judging from this episode that Asuna is likely going to be an un-involved character [mod edit: removed spoiler/hint]. I find it is totally illogical to change the heroine just like that.

This episode certainly gave me a totally different feelings compared to all the previous episodes. I don't know whether its this episode that is slow or the previous one are just too rushed. This is not the SAO I knew but ahh I guess it's ok since it explained a lot about Kirito (or maybe i should call it Kazuto now) and this is suppose to be the start of an entirely new arc. The starting episode of this new arc doesn't give me the fantasy feeling that I had like episode 1 which I liked a lot.

The new OP and EP are both very good song especially the EP which I find a lot better than the first EP. The second OP is good too but i still prefer LiSA work more than Aoi Eir mainly because its just too addictive.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

But what is wrong with Asuna's father? Let's say Sugou's great in both R&D and business. That he wants to inherit the company... and is the most qualified. Fair enough. Let's say that for traditional reasons, it's necessary to welcome him into the Yuuki family. They can adopt him (which is what they do anyway). But why doesn't his eagerness to "marry" a comatose Asuna ring any alarm in her father's head? Why doesn't he decide Sugou should in no circumstance be allowed to be alone with her?

I think he's just blind; he says that Nobuyuki's "like family". And I'm not sure what the story with "the dress" is -- perhaps the one her mother wore? I think he just doesn't have any reason to doubt him yet, and the things he's saying will make sense to him for reasons that aren't entirely clear to us yet.