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Old 2020-11-13, 13:37   Link #81
Dharma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
On some level I kinda feel bad for Dix considering being driven by an insatiable urge to build a never-ending labyrinth is probably a terrible fate to be left with, but satiating that urge by becoming a monster sadist isn't the healthiest alternative, especially once you set your sights on sentient monsters .
Never put others well being before your personal freedom.
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Old 2020-11-13, 19:47   Link #82
Kanon
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Do the other Xenos have gems like Wiene too? I didn't notice. I'm going to assume they all do, otherwise Dix couldn't have known removing it was the way to turn her back into a monster.
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Old 2020-11-13, 20:13   Link #83
bakato
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Originally Posted by Dharma View Post
Never put others well being before your personal freedom.
Listen to this man. Dix was a slave grasping at whatever freedom he could.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
Do the other Xenos have gems like Wiene too? I didn't notice. I'm going to assume they all do, otherwise Dix couldn't have known removing it was the way to turn her back into a monster.
It's just Wiene due to her species.
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Old 2020-11-13, 22:13   Link #84
Master_Yoma
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Bell really is an idiot fighting someone who way better but at less he stands up for what he believes in
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Old 2020-11-13, 23:04   Link #85
GDB
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Listen to this man. Dix was a slave grasping at whatever freedom he could.
That's nonsense. All he did was trade one unbearable drive for another, with the second drive causing him to torture sentient, innocent beings.

There is no freedom in this.

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Originally Posted by Master_Yoma View Post
Bell really is an idiot fighting someone who way better but at less he stands up for what he believes in
Technically the only ones he wouldn't be able to fight on par with right now would be Finn, Riveria, Gareth, and Ais (level 6). I think the others there were only level 5, at least. With Haruhime's help, that is.

Though that's still far too much for him to handle on his own. He'll need at least the Minotaur's help, since that Minotaur is at least level 6 in terms of power as noted by his one-shotting the level 5 Shakti (I think that's her name, at least).
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Old 2020-11-14, 00:07   Link #86
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
That's nonsense. All he did was trade one unbearable drive for another, with the second drive causing him to torture sentient, innocent beings.

There is no freedom in this.
And, honestly, he seems to enjoy it way too much .
Quote:
Technically the only ones he wouldn't be able to fight on par with right now would be Finn, Riveria, Gareth, and Ais (level 6). I think the others there were only level 5, at least. With Haruhime's help, that is.

Though that's still far too much for him to handle on his own. He'll need at least the Minotaur's help, since that Minotaur is at least level 6 in terms of power as noted by his one-shotting the level 5 Shakti (I think that's her name, at least).
I wonder who'll be more surprised to see Bell Cranel teaming-up with a Minotaur...everyone around or Bell himself ?
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Old 2020-11-14, 08:55   Link #87
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The more i watch this show the more Bell really pisses me off because he's a terrible protagonist for a fighting show but he's somehow survived. It's hard to get a read on him really
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Old 2020-11-14, 10:54   Link #88
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Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190 View Post
The more i watch this show the more Bell really pisses me off because he's a terrible protagonist for a fighting show but he's somehow survived. It's hard to get a read on him really
I have the same feeling. The more I watch the further this goes from the infamous ep 8 from season 1. I might be dropping this show soon.

Many of the side-characters are ok, but something doesn't work (maybe it's Bell's behaviour, maybe it's the story that feels less and less defined) to stick it all together.
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Old 2020-11-14, 11:56   Link #89
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Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190 View Post
The more i watch this show the more Bell really pisses me off because he's a terrible protagonist for a fighting show but he's somehow survived. It's hard to get a read on him really
I think he's a pretty likeable and effective protagonist for this story, personally .
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Old 2020-11-14, 13:39   Link #90
Metaneo
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Originally Posted by bakato View Post
Listen to this man. Dix was a slave grasping at whatever freedom he could.
Dix was not a slave grasping at freedom. He was a slave submitting to his Master.
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Old 2020-11-14, 16:12   Link #91
bakato
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
That's nonsense. All he did was trade one unbearable drive for another, with the second drive causing him to torture sentient, innocent beings.

There is no freedom in this.
He CHOSE the second. That's freedom.

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Originally Posted by Metaneo View Post
Dix was not a slave grasping at freedom. He was a slave submitting to his Master.
Submitting to his master would mean slaving away to finish Knossos.
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Old 2020-11-14, 17:12   Link #92
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I'll be honest, the total wussification they are doing with Bell isn't really working out with me. Yeah, he was always an innocent purehearted idealist, but he was also kicking major ass later in S1 and so far he is only doing the first part and getting kicked in the head. A lot. I mean, he is standing up for his convictions and that is a huge part of the story of this season, but in the last episode alone he got thrown around like a rag doll for minutes on end and landed one satisfying falcon punch. Guys, you gotta give us some satisfying fights so that we can get a S4!
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Old 2020-11-14, 17:53   Link #93
Metaneo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakato View Post
He CHOSE the second. That's freedom.
No he didn't. He chose nothing. He did what gave him relief, relief from the pain of his blood. It's the equivalent of a master torturing his slave into willingly doing what he wants. "You do as I say, and the pain stops."

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Originally Posted by bakato View Post
Submitting to his master would mean slaving away to finish Knossos.
Again, no it's not. His blood isn't driving him to finish the labyrinth anymore. It's driving him to hurt creatures from the original labyrinth because that's how much Daedalus hated it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
I'll be honest, the total wussification they are doing with Bell isn't really working out with me. Yeah, he was always an innocent purehearted idealist, but he was also kicking major ass later in S1 and so far he is only doing the first part and getting kicked in the head. A lot. I mean, he is standing up for his convictions and that is a huge part of the story of this season, but in the last episode alone he got thrown around like a rag doll for minutes on end and landed one satisfying falcon punch. Guys, you gotta give us some satisfying fights so that we can get a S4!
Bell is punching above his league, he's outclassed. How would you like being tossed into a ring with a champion MMA fighter and then be mocked for losing? There's no wussification here, Bell is out of his league but still fighting.
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Old 2020-11-14, 18:02   Link #94
GDB
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Originally Posted by bakato View Post
He CHOSE the second. That's freedom.
A drug addict realizing he can get high from torturing and murdering people and choosing to do that instead for a high doesn't mean he isn't still an addict. He just changed what he was addicted to for the worse.

Literally the same thing here. There is no freedom. He made a choice, but he's still a slave to his uncontrollable desires.

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Originally Posted by Metaneo View Post
Again, no it's not. His blood isn't driving him to finish the labyrinth anymore. It's driving him to hurt creatures from the original labyrinth because that's how much Daedalus hated it.
This too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
I'll be honest, the total wussification they are doing with Bell isn't really working out with me. Yeah, he was always an innocent purehearted idealist, but he was also kicking major ass later in S1 and so far he is only doing the first part and getting kicked in the head. A lot. I mean, he is standing up for his convictions and that is a huge part of the story of this season, but in the last episode alone he got thrown around like a rag doll for minutes on end and landed one satisfying falcon punch. Guys, you gotta give us some satisfying fights so that we can get a S4!
That's the problem with dealing with humans as enemies instead of monsters. Humans have clearly defined levels, and anything with escalating power will outpace the hero. The issue here is he's had three human opponents in a row now (Apollo familia with the level 3 as its face, Ishtar familia with the level 4 as its face (even though it had a level 5 or 6, Bell didn't face her), and now the level 5 Dix. To escalate things further, now he has to deal with the Loki familia... with its multiple level 6.

It's part of why I really wish they adapted more Sword Oratoria. Give a break between Bell fighting humans for a bit.
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Old 2020-11-14, 20:16   Link #95
bakato
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
I'll be honest, the total wussification they are doing with Bell isn't really working out with me. Yeah, he was always an innocent purehearted idealist, but he was also kicking major ass later in S1 and so far he is only doing the first part and getting kicked in the head. A lot. I mean, he is standing up for his convictions and that is a huge part of the story of this season, but in the last episode alone he got thrown around like a rag doll for minutes on end and landed one satisfying falcon punch. Guys, you gotta give us some satisfying fights so that we can get a S4!
Well, he is up against a level 5 this time and he's only 3. That's a pretty huge gap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaneo View Post
No he didn't. He chose nothing. He did what gave him relief, relief from the pain of his blood. It's the equivalent of a master torturing his slave into willingly doing what he wants. "You do as I say, and the pain stops."

Again, no it's not. His blood isn't driving him to finish the labyrinth anymore. It's driving him to hurt creatures from the original labyrinth because that's how much Daedalus hated it.
His blood compels him to complete Knossos and produces a sense of dissatisfaction until its finished, which it never will be in his lifetime. Tormenting the Xenos gave him him satisfaction that nothing else could. His compulsion causes him pain and hurting the Xenos is the only thing that gives him relief. To say his compulsion is driving his sadistic tendency is incorrect. When was it said Daedalus hated monsters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
A drug addict realizing he can get high from torturing and murdering people and choosing to do that instead for a high doesn't mean he isn't still an addict. He just changed what he was addicted to for the worse.

Literally the same thing here. There is no freedom. He made a choice, but he's still a slave to his uncontrollable desires.
A misleading analogy. In this case, the guy was addicted from birth and never had a choice in said addiction. He's on constant withdrawal with no hope of ever getting clean. Killing monsters is his only way of getting relief.

Right. There's a choice which means there was freedom.
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Old 2020-11-14, 20:30   Link #96
Metaneo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakato View Post
His blood compels him to complete Knossos and produces a sense of dissatisfaction until its finished, which it never will be in his lifetime. Tormenting the Xenos gave him him satisfaction that nothing else could. His compulsion causes him pain and hurting the Xenos is the only thing that gives him relief. To say his compulsion is driving his sadistic tendency is incorrect. When was it said Daedalus hated monsters?
Daedalus doesn't "Hate the monsters" per say, he hates everything about the Labyrinth, and the Xenos would be it's children. Not the normal monsters, they have no intelligence, no emotion, no soul. That's why he gets satisfaction from the torturing/humiliating/killing the Xenos; they act like real offspring of the labyrinth. Hurting the dungeon, stabbing it's walls, breaking them with hammers or blasting it with magic doesn't do anything for him, the dungeon can't cry, but the Xenos can.
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Old 2020-11-14, 20:37   Link #97
GDB
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A misleading analogy. In this case, the guy was addicted from birth and never had a choice in said addiction. He's on constant withdrawal with no hope of ever getting clean. Killing monsters is his only way of getting relief.

Right. There's a choice which means there was freedom.
We'll have to agree to disagree, since clearly you think freedom is choosing anything even if it's just choosing what to be a slave to.
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Old 2020-11-14, 20:41   Link #98
Metaneo
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We'll have to agree to disagree, since clearly you think freedom is choosing anything even if it's just choosing what to be a slave to.
Oh the irony.
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Old 2020-11-14, 20:58   Link #99
bakato
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaneo View Post
Daedalus doesn't "Hate the monsters" per say, he hates everything about the Labyrinth, and the Xenos would be it's children. Not the normal monsters, they have no intelligence, no emotion, no soul. That's why he gets satisfaction from the torturing/humiliating/killing the Xenos; they act like real offspring of the labyrinth. Hurting the dungeon, stabbing it's walls, breaking them with hammers or blasting it with magic doesn't do anything for him, the dungeon can't cry, but the Xenos can.
Where and when was this even said? Daedalus was captivated by the dungeon, which is why he wanted to build Knossos. Are you confusing Daedulus and Dix?
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Old 2020-11-14, 21:27   Link #100
Metaneo
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Both, Daedalus' will is passed on to his descendants.
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