[Manga] Chapter 294 Discussion

[s-class uchiha]

I can't believe this became such a crazy talk about the word "genius."


1) There's seems to be a camp of ppl who believe reaching goal "x" can only be acheived by a few ppl and few able to do this are regarded as "geniuses."

This is what I believe and yea Naruto is def. there. This is sorta like "the ends justify the means." No matter how you get there (hardwork, kyuubi - well this might be cheating, etc.) once you reach that level you're a genius - otherwise you couldn't have got there.

2) The other camp differentiates btwn the outcome and the means to get there. Also this camp seems to take the words of the ppl who have repeatedly called naruto a "loser" into consideration. whereas the other camp strickly looks at his accomplishments.

I have a Qs for the "#2" Naruto = Non-genius camp. How many more ppl does he have to beat before you will call him genius?!?! Like if he some how figured out how to take out Itachi and Oro at the sametime using only rasengans and kage bunshins would you still just say "talented, but not genius; not his innate ability, but rather trickyness and hard work." ???

If you noticed****, this is somewhat of a trap question in the sense that the same question could've been asked like this: "Like if he some how figured out how to beat Neji in the chuunin exam and beat a Gaara who unleashed Shuukaku all in the same day would you still just say "talented, but not genius; not his innate ability, but rather trickyness and hard work."

If so then I guess that settles all my arguements.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Sazelyt

Oro also seems to consider Jiraiya as someone untalented when he made a comparison between him and Naruto. But, that is not the real case. Even we don't know Jiraiya's current impression regarding Naruto. Initial impression on someone does not mean it is always correct. Also, after Oro saw Naruto using Rasengan, he decided to kill him. The main reason that he did not do so before was mainly because he was thinking of Naruto as some untalented kid. (this is the impression I get)

But Oro is right, he is way more talented than Jiraiya, still that doesn't mean that Jiraiya's abilities pale in comparison to Oro's now.
Exactly as Lee isn't talented in Taijutsu but gained tremendeous abilities in Taijutsu. Exactly as Gai isn't as talented as Kakashi but gained enough abilities through harwork to rival with him.
Once again that's about definition of words.

That's the same with s-class uchiha's question. That's not a matter of how many people Naruto had, has and will beat because that's not a question of level of strength to begin with.
Naruto may become the strongest ninja the world will ever know, it isn't about the talents Naruto started with but about the abilities he will end with.

[Rachy]

Originally Posted by Hunter
Certainely not, he just wasn't up to his brother. That doesn't mean dropout, that means pretty much everybody at this age.

When he done the Katon it was about the same age as itachi was when he done it, he failed the first time and trained for like a week? and then re-done it.

[Zek]

Originally Posted by uchiha rave

When he done the Katon it was about the same age as itachi was when he done it, he failed the first time and trained for like a week? and then re-done it.

Yeah but Sasuke wasn't strong enough to slaughter the whole clan when the series started.

[Rachy]

Yeah but Sasuke wasn't strong enough to slaughter the whole clan when the series started.

Well no thats because he needed character development. He will get stronger than itachi and has more potential than him.

[Zek]

Originally Posted by uchiha rave

Well no thats because he needed character development. He will get stronger than itachi and has more potential than him.

My point is, he doesn't have as much talent as Itachi. If he did, he would have shown even a fraction of the growth Itachi did over the same period of time. Oro acknowledged that Sasuke has more potential, but this doesn't mean that he has the same level of talent.

[gibits]

Originally Posted by s-class uchiha

I can't believe this became such a crazy talk about the word "genius."


1) There's seems to be a camp of ppl who believe reaching goal "x" can only be acheived by a few ppl and few able to do this are regarded as "geniuses."

This is what I believe and yea Naruto is def. there. This is sorta like "the ends justify the means." No matter how you get there (hardwork, kyuubi - well this might be cheating, etc.) once you reach that level you're a genius - otherwise you couldn't have got there.

2) The other camp differentiates btwn the outcome and the means to get there. Also this camp seems to take the words of the ppl who have repeatedly called naruto a "loser" into consideration. whereas the other camp strickly looks at his accomplishments.

I have a Qs for the "#2" Naruto = Non-genius camp. How many more ppl does he have to beat before you will call him genius?!?! Like if he some how figured out how to take out Itachi and Oro at the sametime using only rasengans and kage bunshins would you still just say "talented, but not genius; not his innate ability, but rather trickyness and hard work." ???

If you noticed****, this is somewhat of a trap question in the sense that the same question could've been asked like this: "Like if he some how figured out how to beat Neji in the chuunin exam and beat a Gaara who unleashed Shuukaku all in the same day would you still just say "talented, but not genius; not his innate ability, but rather trickyness and hard work."

If so then I guess that settles all my arguements.

I'd consider myself of the #2s then. A genius to me is just someone who learns things quickily. And by learn I mean know its ramifications, its applications and all that, you know that whole see beneth the beneth type.

Talent is to be natrually good at something. I think the whole aruement is that people think geius is a higher form of talented, others think that they are mutually exclusive, but I just don't think that's the case. They are just different concepts, no more no less.

If anything talented people tent to be successful, genuises tend to be insane...... (see Itachi)

[Syaoran]

Mind my post on page 10 about "Tensai"... I bet you'll have to reconsider what's being said about "Genius".

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Well hunter when his dad looked at Sasuke he was like...well you arent good...atleast far from Itachi you know he gave Sasuke a very dissapointing look..

And i dont think Itachi got his Sharingan so early all by himself...i strongly believe that he had his dad's support and told him how to do it.

Just like his dad began to learn Sasuke after Itachi went on the wrong path as he saw..

[Rachy]

My point is, he doesn't have as much talent as Itachi. If he did, he would have shown even a fraction of the growth Itachi did over the same period of time. Oro acknowledged that Sasuke has more potential, but this doesn't mean that he has the same level of talent.

Its true he got things at a young age, but it was obvious his dad was always pushing him, his dad even saw the potential in sasuke but had to focus on itachi because it was itachi responsibility to take over as the uchiha leader.

I have to say that sasuke has more talent then itachi, i mean we saw sasuke pull off those fancy kunai techniques itachi was doing .. and itachi might of gained the MS a cheap way anyway.

i think that sasuke has the potential to become more talented then itachi ever was or will be >.<

[ri0]

I think talent is something given at birth, which can't be achieved. And as said, Itachi obviously had more talent (based on the stuff the academy instructor said) but in terms of potential Sasuke has the upper hand. So even if it takes 50 years, sooner or later Sasuke will beat the hell out of Mr. clankiller.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Zek

My point is, he doesn't have as much talent as Itachi. If he did, he would have shown even a fraction of the growth Itachi did over the same period of time. Oro acknowledged that Sasuke has more potential, but this doesn't mean that he has the same level of talent.

"talent", "genius", ...
this whole discussion is boring to me. Did you hear about young geniuses treated in special way in our world (special schools, etc.) and in the end they don't turn out to be the ones who change the world. Some genius children are thought that way, and then it turns out that other children who were considered average or even below average turn out to be the real genius.
Being very good at young age does not determine your whole life, like some predefined gift that grants you anything in life. The secret of geniuses is yet unkonwn, it's not something you can see written on someone's forehead.
Hard work is always needed, even for Itachi i'm sure of it. He never had time for Sasuke to train him or anything, always missions and such stuff.

Also this is not a story about science, this is about fighting. If we look at the science part than it's clear that Oro is now quite above all others who didn't die with his experiments (eternal life, etc...). But in fighting being smart and having talent for something does not determine everything. Things are determined by a mixture of every aspect of someone's personality and talents, and the outcome cannot be calculated by human mind. And Naruto may have the winning mixture

And of course i'm not talking about one fight or one special period of life, the whole lifetime has to be considered. People often come up with great things in their 20's or even older age. And they can overcome other children-geniuses at a later age. So Sasuke can definitely become stronger than Itachi.

[seras Victoria]

i think oro still is the strongest because at the time he was fighting jiraya and tsunade he handeld them both. when he couldn't even use hand seals.....

[Syaoran]

I'd like to see Naruto learn how to use one handed seals like Haku
That would be great ^^

[MobiuS]

Originally Posted by uchiha rave

.

i think that sasuke has the potential to become more talented then itachi ever was or will be >.<

You are only saying that cuz you think he is "smexier".

[monster]

Originally Posted by ri0

I think talent is something given at birth, which can't be achieved. And as said, Itachi obviously had more talent (based on the stuff the academy instructor said) but in terms of potential Sasuke has the upper hand. So even if it takes 50 years, sooner or later Sasuke will beat the hell out of Mr. clankiller.

I agree, that's why I hope Itachi will come to his senses and finish Sasuke off before it comes to that point.

[flawesome]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

"talent", "genius", ...
this whole discussion is boring to me. Did you hear about young geniuses treated in special way in our world (special schools, etc.) and in the end they don't turn out to be the ones who change the world. Some genius children are thought that way, and then it turns out that other children who were considered average or even below average turn out to be the real genius.
Being very good at young age does not determine your whole life, like some predefined gift that grants you anything in life. The secret of geniuses is yet unkonwn, it's not something you can see written on someone's forehead.
Hard work is always needed, even for Itachi i'm sure of it. He never had time for Sasuke to train him or anything, always missions and such stuff.

Also this is not a story about science, this is about fighting. If we look at the science part than it's clear that Oro is now quite above all others who didn't die with his experiments (eternal life, etc...). But in fighting being smart and having talent for something does not determine everything. Things are determined by a mixture of every aspect of someone's personality and talents, and the outcome cannot be calculated by human mind. And Naruto may have the winning mixture

And of course i'm not talking about one fight or one special period of life, the whole lifetime has to be considered. People often come up with great things in their 20's or even older age. And they can overcome other children-geniuses at a later age. So Sasuke can definitely become stronger than Itachi.

I agree. In the end, all that's matter: who's the winner.

Let's supposed that...

1) Itachi saw that Sasuke had more potential than himself and killed Sasuke early on.
2) Itachi was later killed by Sasuke because he didn't kill Sasuke when he had the chance.
3) Itachi was later killed by Sasuke

Who's the final winner when all is said and done? The one that stays alive!!!

[tzia_n]

i cant believe how far and off-topic this discussion has gone to

anyway is it just me or somehow the jet-black sphere kyubi-naruto is making seems like he's gonna shoot it from his mouth?

[fremeer]

it reminds me of the attack of bahamut zero in ff7

[Hiruma87]

Kabuto n Oro will flee bcoz naruto is too strong for them. Then Yamato will put naruto into a cage using his mokuton to build a cell. What do you think 'bout Sai's top secret mission?