[Manga] Chapter 308 Discussion

[Last_Hope]

Originally Posted by Yellow Flash

LOL

Yes? What defense, may I ask?

Naruto and Sai were just taken out, and she was the only one left.

What defense? Her defense. The groups defense. Since Naruto and Sai were taken out she had even more reason for her to be cautious and think defensively.

I´d say the effects of her decision talks for themselves. Now she has just put herself in a one on one situation with a foe that is clearly at a great advantage against her.

Originally Posted by Yellow Flash

An order to retreat is certainley not what she should have done,
because she isn't the captain of the team, and she was told to never give up.

No. I didn´t write anything about any order. I wrote that she should have told Yamato that they need to retreat. I´m well aware that Yamato makes the decisions but suggestions are free for everybody.

[Yellow Flash]

Originally Posted by Last_Hope

I´d say the effects of her decision talks for themselves.

Notice that it was only a stupid move in retrospect, which is easy for you to say.
The truth is that Sakura didn't have much choice.

No. I didn´t write anything about any order. I wrote that she should have told Yamato that they need to retreat. I´m well aware that Yamato makes the decisions.

If you were aware of the command structure, you wouldn't complain that Sakura didn't tell Yamato what to do.

[flexx]

Originally Posted by Yellow Flash

Sakura is an excellent medical ninja, and her presence is certainly required. Ask Yamato.

Then it is rather ironic that you say it was stupid to charge at Sasuke,
since the opposite, doing nothing, would make her useless again.

Why does yamato need medical treat need in the first place? Ask sakura.

And she is even worse than useless - cause she tried to do something and put the life of her captain into danger because he tried to rescue her.
Sadly, she doesn't recognize the difference between her power and the power of sasuke. She must be really stupid to think, that she can deal with him.

An intelligent move by her would have been to stay in the background and be the supporter (heal them) for the other guys.

[Yellow Flash]

Originally Posted by flexx

Why does yamato need medical treat need in the first place? Ask sakura.

Nope. Yamato tried to take out Sasuke by himself, not just to save Sakura.
He is to blame for his wound.

Sadly, she doesn't recognize the difference between her power and the of sasuke. She must be really stupid to think, that she can deal with him.

Sasuke barely even moved so far, so there is no way for her to realize his strength or his desire to kill her.

An intelligent move by her would have been to stay in the background and be the supporter (heal them) for the other guys.

That's what she did three years ago. Now it is the time to do something on her own.

[Last_Hope]

Originally Posted by Yellow Flash

Notice that it was only a stupid move in retrospect, which is easy for you to say.

No. I thought it was a stupid move looking at it before aswell.
Sasuke had. 3 dotted Sharingan activated, control of the situation, a sword and just recently he showed off a technique that pretty much makes it impossible for Sakura to come close to him.

Originally Posted by Yellow Flash

If you were aware of the command structure, you wouldn't complain that Sakura didn't tell Yamato what to do.

But if it´s not alright to express an own opinion. Is it alright for her to make a move like that on her own. What about the chain of command?

No. She should have thought about checking up on Sai and Naruto instead. Since she, firsthand, is a medical ninja. But she was blinded by once again having Sasuke in front of her.

It´s not that I don´t understand her decision. I very well do that. But I can´t say it was the right decision since it wasn´t.

[Yellow Flash]

Originally Posted by Last_Hope

No. I´d say it was a stupid move looking at it before aswell.

I don't buy that unless you posted this here before reading what happened next.

Sasuke had. 3 dotted Sharingan activated, control of the situation, a sword

Sakura saw an opening, she had her strength and the surprise on her side.
She only failed because Sasuke is so much faster.

and just recently he showed off a technique that pretty much makes it impossible for Sakura to come close to him.

The best opportunity to attack is right after Chidori Nagashi was used,
because it is unlikely he would use it again a second later,
not to mention to defeat just one person.

[Last_Hope]

Originally Posted by Yellow Flash

I don't buy that unless you posted this here before reading what happened next.



Sakura saw an opening, she had her strength and the surprise on her side.
She only failed because Sasuke is so much faster.



The best opportunity to attack is right after Chidori Nagashi was used,
because it is unlikely he would use it again a second later,
not to mention to defeat just one person.



Well, no. She can't check up on the others and turn her back to the enemy.

Okay. That´s too many quotes for me. I´ll just mash them together.

1. That´s not my problem.

2. Sasuke showed his speed when he came down to hug Naruto. She should have been aware of that.

3. I suppose so.

4. Well she doesn´t need to sit with her back against Sasuke. Although for such a scenario it would require Yamato keeping Sasuke occupied. And he had no luck whatsoever when he tried to block Sasuke´s Kusanagi.

(Considering the situation would be the same. Sakura making a move, Sasuke going for her and Yamato going in for the block.)

Nah. Considering that, going for Naruto and Sai is a bad decision aswell. Retreat or fight together with Yamato is the only sound decisions left.

[Yellow Flash]

I think we just got the answer about the original purpose of the Sharingan.
I don't know what exactly it is, but I'm sure it's about the youma and uchiha.

Originally Posted by Last_Hope

Well she doesn´t need to sit with her back against Sasuke.

Or kneel down with her rear against Sasuke, which is probably what yóu wanted to see.

[Last_Hope]

Originally Posted by Yellow Flash

Or kneel down with her rear against Sasuke, which is probably what yóu wanted to see.

Well it would be interesting to see how Sasuke would react to that.

Maybe she should have just flashed her breasts saying. "Look what you missed out on boy!"

[flexx]

Originally Posted by Yellow Flash

Nope. Yamato tried to take out Sasuke by himself, not just to save Sakura.
He is to blame for his wound.

Yamato wouldn't have to rush in if sakura wasn't so stupid to charge sasuke directly. And no - he didn't try to attack sasuke but to defend sakura. Look at his stance - that is defense - not offense.
This is why it is sakura's fault, that yamato got wounded

Sasuke barely even moved so far, so there is no way for her to realize his strength or his desire to kill her.

Do you even mind reading the manga before posting. Sasuke moved in a blink of an eye in the middle of the group. And then he took out sai and naruto.
No way, that sakura can't even hope, that she can match up with his speed or his skill (jutsu).

That's what she did three years ago. Now it is the time to do something on her own.

Back then she did nothing. Now she could heal their wounds. Big improvement. But she should immediately stop putting the life of her comrades into danger by her stupid actions.

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Originally Posted by Yellow Flash

Sakura saw an opening, she had her strength and the surprise on her side.
She only failed because Sasuke is so much faster.

There are no openings in this case. A sharingan can predict an attack...so he knew she was comming...and the fact that he is even faster makes it pointless.

Unless she uses special jutsu's of which the sharingan cant read (like Rasengan or Hiraishin or some of Oro/Jiraiya's weird techniques) you cant suprise or atleast catch him offguard.

Her attack was pointless, as a Chuunin, former companion and informed person about the Sharingan i'd say that attack was only ment as a diversion and otherwise...pointless.

Originally Posted by Yellow Flash

The best opportunity to attack is right after Chidori Nagashi was used,
because it is unlikely he would use it again a second later,
not to mention to defeat just one person.

Why wouldnt he use it a 2nd time or second later? Because it is Sasuke?
It is at this point unlikely to say that's unlikely because right now...it's unlikely that you can determine Sasuke's strenght, chakra etc. to assume such a thing.
But i say...it's unlikely that Sasuke will get away with this without getting a serious wh00p 4ss from either the Kyuubi or Naruto.

[Yellow Flash]

Originally Posted by flexx

Yamato wouldn't have to rush in if sakura wasn't so stupid to charge sasuke directly. And no - he didn't try to attack sasuke but to defend sakura. Look at his stance - that is defense - not offense. This is why it is sakura's fault, that yamato got wounded.

Nope. Yamato could have saved her and avoid Sasuke.
But he wanted to mess with Sasuke. It was his play.

Sasuke moved in a blink of an eye in the middle of the group. And then he took out sai and naruto.
No way, that sakura can't even hope, that she can match up with his speed or his skill (jutsu).

You carefully avoided my point about his desire to kill her, which is definitely a first in the series.

But she should immediately stop putting the life of her comrades into danger by her stupid actions.

Yes? Tell that to Naruto, since that is his trademark.

-

[Soulnin]

I have it. Sakura will starts to heal the team while Sasuke is having a fun time chatting with kyubbi in Naruto's head. Sasuke then realises that Sakura must die in order to stop healing people. Naruto, needing to protect Sakura, will show at least some of what he's capable of. Enough to let Sasuke still look cool but enough to redeem Naruto. Place bets now.

[fremeer]

since the seal yamato placed on naruto came loose i can now see naruto overcoming kyuubi due to his talk and taking sasuke seriously because we all know that naruto cannot be too much weaker then sasuke since there is no easy ive doubled my power over the last couple of days to fight u thing going to happen. If naruto is weaker then sasuke by too big a margin it will ruin the interest of the story.

[Syaoran]

Originally Posted by Yellow Flash

You carefully avoided my point about his desire to kill her, which is definitely a first in the series.

I do agree that he intented to kill her... or at least hurt her like he did with Yamato. This feeds my hope she'll end up with Naruto

[Yellow Flash]

Originally Posted by Syaoran

I do agree that he intented to kill her... or at least hurt her like he did with Yamato.

I wouldn't doubt that. My point is that Sakura didn't know this.

[flexx]

Originally Posted by Yellow Flash

Nope. Yamato could have saved her and avoid Sasuke.
But he wanted to mess with Sasuke. It was his play.

You carefully avoided my point about his desire to kill her, which is definitely a first in the series.

no need to avoid your point... sasuke didn't reveal for the first time in this fight, that he wants to injure people badly or even kill them.
When he grabs naruto he took out his kusanagi and attacked naruto. That surely wasn't just for fun.

How could yamato save her without confronting sasuke. Running away with sakura and leave his team alone.
And I don't see any point in running away from sasuke with that ultraspeed. No - he had to block him or sakura would have been dead or badly injured

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Sazelyt

Anyway, the current Sasuke does not give the impression of keeping them alive because he doesn't want to kill them. For me he gives the impression of a person who will not hesitate to kill them when the time comes.

I think you misunderstood my post. I don't think even for a second that Sasuke is trying not to kill them, I just pointed out that trying to over-rationalize characters's actions is rather useless in the end.

Originally Posted by Ashura3

Correct me if I'm wrong as my memory is a bit hazy, but everytime Neji's Kaiten was caught by Kidomaru's attacks, it was always at long distance wasn't it? I can't imagine the move causing Neji to be vulnerable in close range combat (where we see Chidori Nagashi's usefulness). The only time that happened was against Naruto when he couldn't dodge and was forced to do a half assed Kaiten, but that was with a charging Kyuubi-powered Naruto coming at him. Not to mention it was 2.5 years ago, I'm sure his reaction speed to something like that would be faster now.
Also, we're not entirely sure yet if Sasuke can perform the full body Chidori Nagashi with a lot of movement like you're suggesting. He can do it with just his sword yes, but still no evidence for anything else. We'll see in the future chapters.

I'm not really speaking of Neji here because this guy is such an awesome fighter that I expect him to change the odd even if something like that would happen. I'm merely talking about the mechanism of both jutsu without talking about their users.
That's why my only observation was that where the Kaiten needs motion and thus will stop/can be stopped at some point, the Chidori Nagashi works just fine with a motionless body and thus can't be stopped like that.
The Chidori Nagashi is merely a huge amount of chakra produced all over the body, if you couldn't move while doing that then spinning with a Kaiten would be impossible

I'm rather wondering about the effect of the Chidori Nagashi on projectiles like Kunai or elemental jutsu. Would they be stopped, deviated or even shredded like Yamato's jutsu? I can imagine solide thing being deviated by the chakrabolt but flame or water? This question is the main reason I still think that the Kaiten is a better defense.

[MysticNinjaJay]

Originally Posted by fremeer

If naruto is weaker then sasuke by too big a margin it will ruin the interest of the story.

Yeah, Kishimoto is smarter than this, I don't think he will disappoint.

Throughout this arc Naruto is being set up as an underdog. He's the only one of his peers who is still a Genin.

He still relies heavily on Kyuubi and has trouble controlling his emotions.

Orochimaru and Kabuto both taunt him as not growing comparatively as strong as Sasuke, but we all know that when push comes to shove Naruto delivers when it is time to get serious.

Kyuubi's power has proven itself to be a burden to him in that it endangers his comrades.

Yamato lectured him on relying on his own strength so that it was he will likely do when he is down with his chat with Sasuke and Kyuubi.

His being grounded ATM is likely just a minor setback and round 2 is bound to commence in the next few chapters.

I think he will give Sasuke a run for his money and the fight will go unresolved because of some kind of interruption, leaving characters with a new respect for Naruto's growth.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by ShurikenJay

Yeah, Kishimoto is smarter than this, I don't think he will disappoint.

Building up the tension and suspense is what he does. It was like this in the battle with Sasori. In the beginnin nobody believed that an old hag and Sakura can win against him without any help. People including me said there's no chance for that, we repeated that for about 4/5 chapters while they were fighting. Chiyo and Sakura had a clear win. (And it does not matter that Chiyo messed up Sasori's mind by using his own parents, it still counts as a win. It had an effect of a genjutsu Like Kabuto messing up Tsunade with her fear of blood, it was a win for Kabuto after all.)

Originally Posted by ShurikenJay

Throughout this arc Naruto is being set up as an underdog. He's the only one of his peers who is still a Genin.

He is a genin while Sasuke would be a genin too if he was not a missing nin.

Originally Posted by ShurikenJay

Kyuubi's power has proven itself to be a burden to him in that it endangers his comrades.

That power is the only thing that let him live till now. He was such an idiot that he would have died multiple times in the story if had not had that power. It's kind of a weapon, he can use it in a good way or in a bad way, it depends only on him. Also i would like the idea of Naruto taming the beast

Originally Posted by ShurikenJay

His being grounded ATM is likely just a minor setback and round 2 is bound to commence in the next few chapters.

I think others will help him out, maybe even some reinfocements will jump in. I would like to see a part when it's not Naruto who defends or saves other, but he is defended by the others.
But in the end he will show "that jutsu" and other tricks. But if in the end Naruto wins don't expect him taking Sasuke back to Konoha, it would be more likely that Orochimaru dies and Sasuke escapes. In Sasuke's current state I don't see him simply rejoining Konoha, they should treat him as a criminal then.