Valvrave the Liberator 2 - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Divino

And for the record Akira will forgive Shoko once she realizes that she is just putting up a front, her and shoko are holding hands in the boxart and Akira has grown a lot as a character, and it was thanks to Shoko for bringing her out of her shell AND saving her life back in S1

Just like she forgave her brother for being terrified to stand up for her when he was a child, right? Even if he was sorry and worked for years to win back her favor, huh? Akira returned that favor more than once and now she has better friends and her brother back. She doesn't need Shoko anymore. Neither does Haruto.

Originally Posted by amaterasu4

Jesus man you really love repeating that.

But yeah, pandering to the base is really lame. The writer is free to do whatever he wants. If not Lelouch not dying in Code Geass would have been really lame.

Code Geass had a nice cast and was selling well. Valvrave scrapes for sales.

[zerriet]

Originally Posted by Thess

Just like she forgave her brother for being terrified to stand up for her when he was a child, right? Even if he was sorry and worked for years to win back her favor, huh? Akira returned that favor more than once and now she has better friends and her brother back. She doesn't need Shoko anymore. Neither does Haruto.

Shoko was still the one who started helping her get her life back, and make no mistake, Shoko was wrong in her decision but as of this episode, she knows the truth and knows she was wrong.

[NeutralZero]

Haruto's one thing but Akira?
it's a slap to the face the way Shoko rejected her/them...
just where is the Shoko of S1?
and unlike Akira's brother who we don't like in S1
Shoko's charac development in S2 went downhill rather than uphill...

[mayumi]

Just like she helped Marie but hardly showed a bit of emotions after hearing what happened to Marie. Ok, she PM has to put on brave front. At the moment there is no JIOR. L-Elf and Haruto have completely different plans than JIOR or human only country.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by zerriet

Shoko was still the one who started helping her get her life back, and make no mistake, Shoko was wrong in her decision but as of this episode, she knows the truth and knows she was wrong.

It doesn't mean people will forgive and forget. Akira's not a forgiving person. Short of Shoko almost dying to save her again or showing more than a couple of crocodile tears of regret, I don't see her the type who gives a crap about it. She had a grudge against her brother for years for less than abandon her in a warzone because she's "not human".

[Divino]

Originally Posted by Thess

Just like she forgave her brother for being terrified to stand up for her when he was a child, right? Even if he was sorry and worked for years to win back her favor, huh? Akira returned that favor more than once and now she has better friends and her brother back. She doesn't need Shoko anymore. Neither does Haruto

Yes because unlike Satomi, Shoko has done things for Akira before this fall back and also unlike Satomi, Shoko is just putting a front for other people not just to save herself. Akira has several reasons to forgive Shoko because if it wasnt because of her she would have been gassed along with the other students back in episode 12. Akira may be resentful but she is not ungrateful.

Also why are you bringing Haruto into this? The last thing he may do for Shoko is to tell L-Elf to please look out for her, he already realized why she is doing what she is doing, he already forgave her. He is most likely gonna lose his memories and die next episode so him not needing Shoko is not even a issue that needs to be adressed anymore.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Divino

Yes because unlike Satomi, Shoko has done things for Akira before this fall back and also unlike Satomi, Shoko is just putting a front for other people not just to save herself. Akira has several reasons to forgive Shoko because if it wasnt because of her she would have been gassed along with the other students back in episode 12. Akira may be resentful but she is not ungrateful.

Satomi? Satomi's official hobby is doing things for Akira. Like purchasing her favorite candy type. In fact, his agenda as Prime Minister (as we discover in CD drama 3) was going to be build a place where nobody will be bullied, because he wanted Akira and other people to be safe from this unpleasant experience: he didn't only have a platform for Dorssia emergency, he had a vision of an ideal country that went beyond that. How about that? Akira already repaid that favor, she signed off her humanity and saved Shoko's hide more than once already. She hurt her feelings, the feelings or someone who is already vulnerable and feels easily betrayed.

She doesn't feel she belongs with Shoko, that's why she wants a place she wants to belong: the nation Haruto and L-Elf want to build for them to be safe. You'll notice Shoko's out the loop because she can't be trusted anymore. She's just one of the uniformed, idiotic masses that must be enlightened.

Originally Posted by Divino

Also why are you bringing Haruto into this? The last thing he may do for Shoko is to tell L-Elf to please look out for her, he already realized why she is doing what she is doing, he already forgave her. He is most likely gonna lose his memories and die next episode so him not needing Shoko is not even a issue that needs to be adressed anymore.

Haruto loves everyone, including Shoko, but I bring him up because he used to believe he couldn't protect others and think less of himself in comparison to Shoko. He no longer needs her. Even if she dies or he forgets about her, he's got a goal and he's sticking with it. The only one who remained behind of the gang is Shoko. The rest have left her behind and are doing their own thing. I was hoping she would catch up in this episode: even X-eins did.

[finalfury]

Akira = desires a place where she belongs above all else.
Shoko = Doesn't allow them a place to belong in in order to uphold the desires of the few.
She didn't get the message. She is not PM anymore. This formality smuck is only her self delusion along with the few people there. :/
Even Shirley imho was better written/presented than Shoko was.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by finalfury

Akira = desires a place where she belongs above all else.
Shoko = Doesn't allow them a place to belong in in order to uphold the desires of the few.
She didn't get the message. She is not PM anymore. This formality smuck is only her self delusion along with the few people there. :/

Basically this. Meanwhile, L-Elf, Haruto and the pilots are fighting for the real nation with the support of those who accompanied them to the Earth mission. Shoko's not a real leader, she allows herself to be pushed around by Iori and a few crying students without speaking up and presenting what she thinks is right.

Haruto had objections in this episode and he controlled the situation. We're talking about Haruto here not L-Elf, who would be listened anyway. Satomi did the same when people began to have doubts and lose faith. This 'brave front' is pointless unless you have substance to fall onto. Shoko only has a delusion and pipedreams with a ship full of injured.

[zero7090]

Originally Posted by Divino

Because everybody seems to believe a character is not suppose to have emotions or have flaws in any way during stressful situations, specially when she has so many lives that are depending on her. I am honestly getting tired of all the Shoko hate and she is not even my favorite character.

And for the record Akira will forgive Shoko once she realizes that she is just putting up a front, her and shoko are holding hands in the boxart and Akira has grown a lot as a character, and it was thanks to Shoko for bringing her out of her shell AND saving her life back in S1

Putting up a front? for what? what does putting up a front have anything to do here? People put up a front when they have misfortune event and need to put it aside for to live on. Here she discovered everyone's misunderstanding. Instead of clear up everything and lift up everyone trust/spirit or even just talk sense into everyone (common even a beast know who is their savior) She can tell a sob story about a man who sacrifice everything to protect his love one and everyone will cry for her. However she did nothing. NOTHING.

Poor Saki, she is strong and her love is true yet she got the short end of the stick.

[finalfury]

Haruto: "Sometimes you need to put on a brave face."
Saki: "What do you think I've been doing for most of my life?"

[zerriet]

Originally Posted by zero7090

Putting up a front? for what? what does putting up a front have anything to do here? People put up a front when they have misfortune event and need to put it aside for to live on. Here she discovered everyone's misunderstanding. Instead of clear up everything and lift up everyone trust/spirit or even just talk sense into everyone (common even a beast know who is their savior) She can tell a sob story about a man who sacrifice everything to protect his love one and everyone will cry for her. However she did nothing. NOTHING.

Poor Saki, she is strong and her love is true yet she got the short end of the stick.

Yes she should have done that, but there is also the possibility that it might backfire, causing iori and gang to think she lost it as well. The fact that she maintained her composure and allowed haruto back on board while convincing the students was the best she could have done, again considering that she is in a state of turmoil

[Triple_R]

Excellent episode. I especially liked the final scene with L-Elf so superbly turning the tables on the Magius, and the Dorssian Fuhrer.

It was definitely a great episode for L-Elf and all the Valvrave pilots. Haruto, Saki, Thunder, and Akira had some great moments and some excellent lines. Thunder certainly went out like a champ, doing a good job in following in Kyuma's footsteps.


As for Shouko... My take is that, perhaps ironically, she's judging herself as harshly as some of the Shouko-haters are. I think she feels like she's screwed up massively. She knows she's let Haruto down, even when he sacrificed so much for her. She knows that she let down her best friend, who's also the guy she has a crush on. She feels like she's destroyed any chance she has with Haruto at a romantic level, so there's also an element of "a broken heart" here.

At this juncture, Shouko is a girl who's lost it all. She lost her father, her friend Marie, her country, and her friend and potential lover Haruto. She failed as a Prime Minister, and likely feels beyond redemption. She probably feels like all she has left to offer is keeping things calm amongst the survivors on her ship. Trying to tell them the truth, and hoping to persuade them that way, is an act of faith, including in her own abilities to influence others. And Shouko has no faith left in herself.

I think that Shouko is supposed to be a tragic figure. An Aesop about how pure idealism and laughs and friendliness can only get you so far. She lacks the mental toughness of L-Elf and the Valvrave pilots, and ultimately, that's what makes the difference. They can "put on a brave face" while Shouko can only maintain her smile and hope if she's genuinely happy and optimistic.

[zerriet]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Excellent episode. I especially liked the final scene with L-Elf so superbly turning the tables on the Magius, and the Dorssian Fuhrer.

It was definitely a great episode for L-Elf and all the Valvrave pilots. Haruto, Saki, Thunder, and Akira had some great moments and some excellent lines. Thunder certainly went out like a champ, doing a good job in following in Kyuma's footsteps.


As for Shouko... My take is that, perhaps ironically, she's judging herself as harshly as some of the Shouko-haters are. I think she feels like she's screwed up massively. She knows she's let Haruto down, even when he sacrificed so much for her. She knows that she let down her best friend, who's also the guy she has a crush on. She feels like she's destroyed any chance she has with Haruto at a romantic level, so there's also an element of "a broken heart" here.

At this juncture, Shouko is a girl who's lost it all. She lost her father, her friend Marie, her country, and her friend and potential lover Haruto. She failed as a Prime Minister, and likely feels beyond redemption. She probably feels like all she has left to offer is keeping things calm amongst the survivors on her ship. Trying to tell them the truth, and hoping to persuade them that way, is an act of faith, including in her own abilities to influence others. And Shouko has no faith left in herself.

I think that Shouko is supposed to be a tragic figure. An Aesop about how pure idealism and laughs and friendliness can only get you so far. She lacks the mental toughness of L-Elf and the Valvrave pilots, and ultimately, that's what makes the difference. They can "put on a brave face" while Shouko can only maintain her smile and hope if she's genuinely happy and optimistic.

Which is why I maintain my stance that viewers should themselves in the position of shoko and just think for a second what they would have done realistically instead of immediately scrutinizing all her actions

[zerriet]

I say that shoko may be compared very similarly to rossiu from gurren lagann. Both were initially good characters, made a mistake thinking it was for the benefit of the majority and absolutely regret it later on. The important thing to note is that both justified their actions and learnt from their mistakes later on.

[Manic]

yeah i havent liked shouko much this season either. Its prolly gonna happen anyway but i like hes losing all memories of her. Im actually kind hoping haruto doesnt die, cus its a lame predictable ending, id just rather he loses his childhood mems and is a leader along with L-ELF. Be kinda dumb if the dorsean guys get off relatively scott free while the student lose everything.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Excellent episode. I especially liked the final scene with L-Elf so superbly turning the tables on the Magius, and the Dorssian Fuhrer.

It was definitely a great episode for L-Elf and all the Valvrave pilots. Haruto, Saki, Thunder, and Akira had some great moments and some excellent lines. Thunder certainly went out like a champ, doing a good job in following in Kyuma's footsteps.


As for Shouko... My take is that, perhaps ironically, she's judging herself as harshly as some of the Shouko-haters are. I think she feels like she's screwed up massively. She knows she's let Haruto down, even when he sacrificed so much for her. She knows that she let down her best friend, who's also the guy she has a crush on. She feels like she's destroyed any chance she has with Haruto at a romantic level, so there's also an element of "a broken heart" here.

At this juncture, Shouko is a girl who's lost it all. She lost her father, her friend Marie, her country, and her friend and potential lover Haruto. She failed as a Prime Minister, and likely feels beyond redemption. She probably feels like all she has left to offer is keeping things calm amongst the survivors on her ship. Trying to tell them the truth, and hoping to persuade them that way, is an act of faith, including in her own abilities to influence others. And Shouko has no faith left in herself.

I think that Shouko is supposed to be a tragic figure. An Aesop about how pure idealism and laughs and friendliness can only get you so far. She lacks the mental toughness of L-Elf and the Valvrave pilots, and ultimately, that's what makes the difference. They can "put on a brave face" while Shouko can only maintain her smile and hope if she's genuinely happy and optimistic.

Shoko got handed a bad deal this season, firstly she was absent for more than half of the season so she could have no further development. And then when she shows back up, she has to fact the character plot turn her character was supposed to face much earlier that had carried on from last season, but it was now a little late in the game.

I stood up for Shoko and I tried to understand how she feels. I understand her back in episode 21 and I could give her the benefit of the doubt. However, I think now she's being prideful and stubborn. She's no longer PM, and she only has 1/3rd of the remaining school population on her ship. The pilots (somehow?) are accepted by the other 2/3rds, but since no explanation was given, you really ask
how long that will last...

Anyway, I think Shoko's character has folded itself up in a tight spot that's going to be pretty hard to get out of at this point.

[zerriet]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Shoko got handed a bad deal this season, firstly she was absent for more than half of the season so she could have no further development. And then when she shows back up, she has to fact the character plot turn her character was supposed to face much earlier that had carried on from last season, but it was now a little late in the game.

I stood up for Shoko and I tried to understand how she feels. I understand her back in episode 21 and I could give her the benefit of the doubt. However, I think now she's being prideful and stubborn. She's no longer PM, and she only has 1/3rd of the remaining school population on her ship. The pilots (somehow?) are accepted by the other 2/3rds, but since no explanation was given, you really ask
how long that will last...

Anyway, I think Shoko's character has folded itself up in a tight spot that's going to be pretty hard to get out of at this point.

Take note that she realised her mistake already and absolutely regretted what she did. Episode 23 is just her trying to make a balanced decision and avoid any further backfires

[DuelGundam2099]

I just watched the new episode so what I am noting:

-How did L-Elf get into that waffe pilot suit? Apparently breathing in space is possible for him!
-Great action this episode.... Unfortunately there has been so much negativity in other aspects so far that it is difficult to enjoy
-So Shoko gave into mob mentality. I can understand why, but that does make her gutless (ugh)
-Saki comes back.... Only to have her VVV's legs blasted off....
-I knew it, Q-vier did not defect after all, told you guys but NOOOOOO, nobody takes Duel seriously. Just like how Chris thinks I am a troll when I am not- Okay that was off topic.
-Thunder died, I said it before, but still and wow that was gorier than I thought it would
-A little credit to Saotome, he was willing to sacrifice his runes for his sister, so he does have a sense of courage sort of
-Full Impact Unit 1 taking out four kirschbaums when nobody else can.... Eh, I can kind of see why with rune overload, but still, hard to suspend disbelief from that. I mean if he was in harakiri mode it'd be easier to buy.
-Oh hey Prue is free from his containment! It seems like he and Pino were artificial Magius, so we can safely say who is first and second generation finally
-Speaking of which Unit 2 is only covered over for what 30 seconds?

Pro mob mentality + barely any build up to the final boss + more logic fail + a lackluster return to Unit 4 has amounted to me safely saying I am not giving this series a 4/10. The execution just ruins it for me. Maybe it could still get a 3/10, but I am not holding my breath.

[zerriet]

In a way, for all the imperfections and genuine thoughts to do the right thing that shoko had, it's sad that there is just so much bad reception.