Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[Destined_Fate]

Heine is not the standard, hes' the exception and he was dropped fast. They gave no inclination that there were any other elites out there in the series that would be better off than their current small team. Even when Athrun left the group and they were in space Durandal didn't assign them anyone new to fill his void.

Faith is never really explained in the series. It sounds important and it seemed liked they were given a ton of leeway/power but none of them are ever seen exercising said power. If anything Faith was used to retain their loyalty better while in the eyes of the General public they were just portrayed as war heroes to sell to the public.

[S.Freedom]

You do realize that there's a good reason Heine didn't last very long right? His jp VA was also the artist known as T.M Revolution. He couldn't take the time off his touring schedule to voice Heine for the remainder of Destiny.

And what about Mare Strode or Riika Shedder as additions to Minerva?

[Aquaman OS]

Riika was only the test pilot for Gaia. She was reassigned after the testing was complete. Mare was going to be posted to Minerva, but was injured when the Extendeds took the Gundams.

As for why Durandal didn't send more aces, well as it was the rest of the Zaft forces were getting envious, and suspicious of the Minerva and all its special treatment. It was already getting all the new models and had 2 (later 3) Faith members on board.
Even during Angel Down the other Zaft guys were annoyed that Minerva was going to show them up, while at the battle of Orb the commander also didn't particularly want Minerva there and ordered them to the back (Shinn later used his authority from Faith to launch anyway). Only when AA showed up did they allow Talia to basically force herself into the battle.

So really, with Minerva fine as it was, Durandal really couldn't afford to send even more good stuff their way. The rest of Zaft was getting angry and suspicous of them.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Skye629

The FAITH rank gives authority and freedom to operate directly under the chairmans orders

However at the same time they cant just go running around moving forces

For the longest time, that's what I thought as well, but apparently, according to Yolant, FAITH agents are "given authority that supersedes most commanders in the field and are permitted to plan operations and give orders on the battlefield as they see fit."

Also, apparently, they don't report directly only to the Chairman, but to the Council as a whole as well.

I'm guessing that's why Talia was made a FAITH agent. Since Athrun was a member of FAITH, and he was assigned to the Minerva, the Captain of the Minerva must also be a FAITH agent so that final authority of the ship remains with her.

[The American Average]

wow Aquaman OS i never really saw it that way now that i think about it you're right. after all Shinn got the super cool looking Destiny Gundam, it was top line tech and built specifically for him in mind its not like anyone else could use it. Then there's the Legend Gundam too, Minerva got top line gear and all there pilots are under the age of 20 years old. I could see the older more experienced soldiers get mad at that kinda of treatment, after all they worked just as hard if not harder than the Minerva crew and didn't get cool upgrades Lets even look at Yzak's crew, they probably did a lot of battling in space during the course of the war and Yzak only got a Gouf upgrade from the Zaku, He didn't get a Gundam made just for him like Shinn. And Dearka didn't get nothing lol.

was it ever specified on why Dearka was bump down a rank in Destiny after all Yzak kinda left ZAFT too by the end and he was promoted to the White outfit (forgot the rank)

what Wiki say about FAITH members

Spoiler:

FAITH (Fast Acting Intergrate Tactical Headquarters) is an elite special forces unit of ZAFT personnel that have remarkable war records and certain character traits. They are appointed by the PLANT Supreme Council or the Supreme Chairman, only to whom they are answerable to. FAITH members operate outside the regular command structure of ZAFT and are allowed to plan operations and give orders on the battlefield as they see fit. FAITH members wear badges resembling a white wing emerging from a golden elliptical orb. Known members of FAITH include; Heine Westenfluss, Athrun Zala, Talia Gladys, Shinn Asuka, Rey Za Burrel and Henri Eugenie.

[Aquaman OS]

Remember Minerva is their brand new top of the line ship (The ONLY new ship Zaft fields in Destiny. Everyone else is still using the same two models that have been in service since before the beginning of Seed.) It is commanded by a woman known to have been intimate with Durandal, and its two top pilots are the boy Durandal practically raised as a son and is essentially a yes man to him, and the rookie from the academy that Durandal personally gave special treatment to, and gave him a a brand new mobile suit for his first assignment. All 3 of these people are eventually made Faith, the Minerva constantly gets first dibs at the new supplies and mobile suits, is always sent to critical operations and Durandal stops to see them and publically praise them every time he's on earth.

How do you think that looks to the rest of Zaft?

[The American Average]

ZAFT would be P.O'd totally agree

[Skye629]

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

Remember Minerva is their brand new top of the line ship (The ONLY new ship Zaft fields in Destiny. Everyone else is still using the same two models that have been in service since before the beginning of Seed.) It is commanded by a woman known to have been intimate with Durandal, and its two top pilots are the boy Durandal practically raised as a son and is essentially a yes man to him, and the rookie from the academy that Durandal personally gave special treatment to, and gave him a a brand new mobile suit for his first assignment. All 3 of these people are eventually made Faith, the Minerva constantly gets first dibs at the new supplies and mobile suits, is always sent to critical operations and Durandal stops to see them and publically praise them every time he's on earth.

How do you think that looks to the rest of Zaft?

AND on top of that they literally hogged all the glory. They were at, and survived through, every battle up to the very end of the war

ANOTHER INTERESTING NOTE: From the public's perspective Lacus' fiance was also on board (Athrun, his name and record also brings more to the table)

[The American Average]

what an OP ship huh? when you really think about it they(zaft) shouldn't have lost the War in the end =p

[Aquaman OS]

Orb had an equally powerful ship and two super Gundam's of their own remember?

[Skye629]

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

Orb had an equally powerful ship and two super Gundam's of their own remember?

And plot armor :P

[Skye629]

Just watched the latest remaster episode, dammit y did they have to mess with the instruments for Fields of Hope? (still a great scene and song but I like the piano dammit)

[S.Freedom]

I'm honestly not sure anyone knew about the relationship between Durandal and Talia/Rey. I think for the most part it was a secret that they knew each other on a personal level.

And ZAFT always struck me as a merit based military. Thus those who showed their worth got more than those who didn't. Besides the Minerva was ZAFT's answer to the Archangel. Durandal and ZAFT high command would have been complete morons if they didn't utilize it in the way they did.

I mean take Berlin and the Stella piloted Destroy for example. Who the heck else but the Minerva/Shin should ZAFT have sent to stop that thing? It was already raping the hell out of ZAFT's grunt forces. Should they have sent in Yzak and his team to get slaughtered perhaps?

ps. ZAFT high command had no way of knowing Kira and the Archangel would show up. So don't even try using that to weasel out of answering.

[Destined_Fate]

Don't forget that in the Astray mangas that Shinn scored very high and was secretly testing the Impulse for quite awhile. So he wasn't just tossed in the impulse, he was literally the best candidate due to his natural ability.

Originally Posted by S.Freedom

You do realize that there's a good reason Heine didn't last very long right? His jp VA was also the artist known as T.M Revolution. He couldn't take the time off his touring schedule to voice Heine for the remainder of Destiny.

And what about Mare Strode or Riika Shedder as additions to Minerva?

Would have to pay for new VA and dedicate time away from the main team for them. We already have Shinn needing more development, taking away even more time away from him is bad enough.

[Aquaman OS]

Originally Posted by S.Freedom

I mean take Berlin and the Stella piloted Destroy for example. Who the heck else but the Minerva/Shin should ZAFT have sent to stop that thing? It was already raping the hell out of ZAFT's grunt forces. Should they have sent in Yzak and his team to get slaughtered perhaps?

ps. ZAFT high command had no way of knowing Kira and the Archangel would show up. So don't even try using that to weasel out of answering.

I don't think the rank and file Zaft guys really cared. All they knew was the chairman's pet ship full of people he clearly favored was getting all the glory. Though Berlin might have been the one time they'd gladly accept the help. But otherwise the Zaft people usually are resentful of the Minerva showing up.

Although considering Minerva only had one pilot sending it and expecting them to do the hard work was an odd choice (although Durandal might HAVE been counting on AA showing up). Especially considering Shinn actually wasn't all that helpful since Kira and AA did most of the work taking out that force anyway.

[kaito-kid]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Don't forget that in the Astray mangas that Shinn scored very high and was secretly testing the Impulse for quite awhile. So he wasn't just tossed in the impulse, he was literally the best candidate due to his natural ability.

Shinn wasn't actually the best from the academy and I believe there are more red suits who scored better then Shinn, even Rey did better. The most qualified ace to pilot the Impulse at that point would be Courtney, since he is the most gifted pilot they had after Athrun and Rau. But Courtney wasn't interested in being anything more than a test pilot for some reason, but still there were others more qualified.. As someone pointed out earlier, Shinn got special treatment from the chairman, and getting the Impulse was the first first one. Durandal always knew that Shinn was special, that he'd become a very importent weapon.

[Gundamx]

maybe Durandal saw Shin seed(berserk) mode by mistake or may because he know about ultimate coordinator project > have secret test on Shin?

[kaito-kid]

Originally Posted by Gundamx

maybe Durandal saw Shin seed(berserk) mode by mistake or may because he know about ultimate coordinator project > have secret test on Shin?

Durandal is a geneticist so he might have known something about the Seed factor, but I'm not sure if he knew that Shinn would be able to activate his Seed. But more than that, I think he also saw Shinn as a remarkable character, a good pilot who was emotionally vulnerable... someone who could be taken advantage of.

And yes, he was also aware of Ulen's coordinator project (Durandal and Kira's father knew each other.) But this has nothing to do with Shinn. Shinn lived lived a peaceful life in Orb till the invasion.

[Gundamx]

Originally Posted by kaito-kid

Durandal is a geneticist, so he might have known something about the Seed factor, but I'm not sure if he knew that Shinn would be able to activate his Seed. But more than that, I thing he also saw Shinn as a remarkable character, a good pilot who was emotionally vulnerable... someone who could be taken advantage of.

And yes, he was also aware of Ulen's coordinator project (Durandal and Kira's father knew each other.) But this has nothing to do with Shinn. Shinn lived lived a peaceful life in Orb till the invasion.

if we look at destiny plan > he want people to rule by their DNA > Shin DNA = better MS pilot than Ray DNA and other pilots > that why Shin is gundam pilot?

[S.Freedom]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Would have to pay for new VA and dedicate time away from the main team for them. We already have Shinn needing more development, taking away even more time away from him is bad enough.

Ok I'm not sure I get wear your coming from. First you say that there isn't anyone on Heine's level that they could have added to the Minerva's roster of pilots. Yet when I point out two possible candidates you say it would be to expensive to get VA's for them and detract from Shinn's development?

Talk about moving the friggin goal posts man. So which is it, are there no other ZAFT pilots equal to Heine or is it to expensive/detract from character development too much? You really can't have it both ways here.

And as for character development. It really wouldn't detract from said character development that much. It really wouldn't as it would provide a better opportunity to display Shinn's character by having him interact with people outside his small clich of friends.