School Days - Favorite Character(s) Poll

[xxangelchanxx]

Voted kotonoha (yandere!!) and sekai.
I must know why people actually voted for Makoto.

[Deathcaster]

I voted Kotonoha, becuase she didn't do anything wrong except being the victem all the time and going psyco at the last few eps.

I also want to know how someone could have liked Makoto.

[serenade_beta]

Originally Posted by Deathcaster

I voted Kotonoha, becuase she didn't do anything wrong except being the victem all the time and going psyco at the last few eps.

I also want to know how someone could have liked Makoto.

Well, of course she didn't do anything wrong if you take out everything she did wrong.

Wonder why... I actually like Makoto. No real reason though... The game version, anyways.

[qwertyuiopz]

makoto is pimp

[klowny]

Mokoto is like the ideal guy i wanted to be until i realized that's just fantasy but still he gets props for what he does/did or a 3rd thing

[Paul Doe]

My favorite character was Sekai. I don't believe she was actually insane like Kotonoha was, just overly emotional. Okay, maybe she was insane. I do recall she stabbed Makoto multiple times!

I voted for Hikari as well because of her hair loopies.

[bishopcruz]

Eh, Makoto's personality in the game really varies, he is generally an OK dude, for a 15 year old. In the anime he is far more of a douche, but again I say his actual personality is no different than any other harem lead, he just actually has the OPPORTUNITY.

[Akka]

Kotonoha is the only character I actually felt sorry for.
She's a victim from start to finish, and ends up tragically broken and probably dead. Yeah she snapped - when you see how much she endures, it's not really surprising.

[BetoJR]

Honestly, lots of people have bad, cheating boy/girlfriends and don't go around walking with meat cleavers and, given a chance, using them on other people, you know?

Couldn't you be overreacting a bit?

[Akka]

Err...
Actually, the one killing the "cheating boyfriend" is Sekai, not Katsura... Katsura kills the murderer of her boyfriend. Couldn't you be inverting things a bit ?

Though someone as horrible as Makoto is hardly a loss and she should thanks Sekai rather than off her, I can perfectly understand how someone would kill the murderer of her loved one.

[BetoJR]

Where did I ever say Kotonoha killed any cheating boyfriend? I believe I used the term "other people" and I did mean it in a very broad sense.

As for murder being justifiable or not, excuse me for not agreeing with you - but I really don't. About either of the cases presented in the series... both are unjustifiable, as far as I'm concerned.

[Akka]

Originally Posted by BetoJR

Where did I ever say Kotonoha killed any cheating boyfriend? I believe I used the term "other people" and I did mean it in a very broad sense.

Yeah, but Kotonoha didn't walk around with a knife because of a cheating boyfriend, she walked around with a knife because she found a corpse on the floor, which is quite different (unless I missed her bringing a knife before, which is totally possible ; she DID eyed a knife before, but she was not actually shown taking it, so I'm rather on the opinion she only armed herself after the murder).

As for murder being justifiable or not, excuse me for not agreeing with you - but I really don't. About either of the cases presented in the series... both are unjustifiable, as far as I'm concerned.

I could argue that there is quite a difference between "justifying a murder" and "understanding someone who did one".

Someone who comes back home, find his lover/parents/children dead on the floor, and kills the murderer... I could hardly really blame the person.

[BetoJR]

Originally Posted by Akka

Yeah, but Kotonoha didn't walk around with a knife because of a cheating boyfriend, she walked around with a knife because she found a corpse on the floor, which is quite different (unless I missed her bringing a knife before, which is totally possible ; she DID eyed a knife before, but she was not actually shown taking it, so I'm rather on the opinion she only armed herself after the murder).

You should check the anime again, then. She does take the knife out for a walk before the murder.

Originally Posted by Akka

I could argue that there is quite a difference between "justifying a murder" and "understanding someone who did one".
Someone who comes back home, find his lover/parents/children dead on the floor, and kills the murderer... I could hardly really blame the person.

I could. Very fast, too. Because it was the killer's choice, even more when it's a premeditated murder, out of a feeling of revenge. It's a crime, even if you somehow think it's justifiable...

Also, it seems odd that you couldn't assign blame in this situation, since you're so judgmental of a cheating bastard like Makoto, yet you can justify premeditated murder so easily...

[FateAnomaly]

I believe in revenge myself. If someone dear to me was killed i would probably do the same. However, it is not worth it to do for Makoto. Should have just report the bitch Sekai to the police.

[BetoJR]

Hey, you're free to believe in whatever you want. Just... don't let the police catch you.

[Akka]

Originally Posted by BetoJR

You should check the anime again, then. She does take the knife out for a walk before the murder.

I'll take your word on this one, I may have missed the scene.

I could. Very fast, too. Because it was the killer's choice, even more when it's a premeditated murder, out of a feeling of revenge. It's a crime, even if you somehow think it's justifiable...

Also, it seems odd that you couldn't assign blame in this situation, since you're so judgmental of a cheating bastard like Makoto, yet you can justify premeditated murder so easily...

It's called empathy.

I can understand and sympathize with the pain of someone who has his loved ones dead before his eyes because of someone.

I can not sympathize with the immaturity and carelessness of someone who inflicts pain upon others for his benefit and because he's a spineless junk.

Between reacting to pain and abusing people, yes I see the latter as much more evil. In fact, that's precisely why in the law, there is usually no attenuating circumstances when it comes to crimes about profit, but there is when it comes to crime about passion. It's simply basic humanity.
I didn't think anyone could not see the difference between the two, frankly 0_o

If you can honestly say that, upon seeing the corpses of your family, you wouldn't like to kill the murderer, then I'm a bit speechless. It's either superhuman self-control, either messiah-like amount of goodness, either pathological lack of emotion.

And again, you seem to have trouble grasping the difference between "understanding" and "justifying".

[BetoJR]

Not really. I had a daughter killed by a drunk driver when I was younger and, while I did go after him later - and did beat him up to a bloody pulp, something I'm not really exactly proud, even after so much time has passed - I couldn't really kill him. Because then, my life would be over, as well.

You're the one who seems to have a problem differentiating wanting to kill someone and actually killing someone. One is a wish-fulfillment fantasy, the other is a crime - however many attenuating circumstances there are. You don't need to have "either superhuman self-control, either messiah-like amount of goodness, either pathological lack of emotion" to differentiate between right and wrong. Killing is wrong in most legal systems around the world. I also condone this notion. You don't? Fine, but you would be invited to think about the consequences of such an act afterwards.

[Akka]

Originally Posted by BetoJR

Not really. I had a daughter killed by a drunk driver when I was younger and, while I did go after him later - and did beat him up to a bloody pulp, something I'm not really exactly proud, even after so much time has passed - I couldn't really kill him. Because then, my life would be over, as well.

I'm sincerely sorry to heard about it - and I don't think you should be ashamed for beating him to a bloody pulp. I'm pretty sure I would have done the same.

You're the one seem to have a problem differentiating wanting to kill someone and actually killing someone. One is a wish-fulfillment fantasy, the other is a crime - however many attenuating circumstances there are.

That's the point : I don't deny it is a crime. What I say is that I can understand someone who commit a crime depending on the circumstances. I can relate to, I can understand the motives, and as such, I can't really blame the person.
Doesn't mean I think it should not be punished by the law, because revenge isn't always (far from it...) justice nor just, but I just can't put on the same level someone who kill because of pain, and someone who kill because of gain.
(again, that's the very principle of attenuating circumstances)

Relating to and understanding does not always mean justifying or accepting.

You don't need to have "either superhuman self-control, either messiah-like amount of goodness, either pathological lack of emotion" to differentiate between right and wrong.
Killing is wrong in most legal systems around the world. I also condone this notion. You don't? Fine, but you would be invited to think about the consequences of such an act afterwards.

Well, the fact that you don't need anything superhuman to differenciate between right and wrong, and that everyone should think about the consequences, is precisely why I despise Makoto : he has no excuse to be as asshole, and he doesn't bother to see the consequences of his acts on others.

So on this one we have the same opinion

I also agree that killing is usually wrong.
But my point isn't that it's right, my point is, again, that I can relate to the pain of someone and I can understand why they snap and just do something they aren't supposed to do.
I tend to think that if you inflict enough pain on someone, you're morally justifying a certain amount of their backlash - you brang it upon yourself/you asked for it/you reap what you saw/whatever. It's the same reasoning you explained with "right and wrong" and "consequences".
Of course, it's also a matter of proportions, you just cannot be justified, even in part, about maiming someone who simply called you an idiot.
But if you start bullying him for no reason, and you get a punch in the face, I say "fair game", even though I don't condone at all the idea of punching people out of the blue.

All this to say : I can feel sympathy for someone who did something wrong, but did it because she was enduring a lot of pain.
I can not feel sympathy for someone who did something wrong, but did it just for his profit.
And I can not feel any sympathy for someone who brings his demise upon himself. I'm particularly sensitive to karmic punishment ^^

Isn't the fact that you understand the concept of attenuating circumstances a hint that, somewhere, you probably also think a bit like that - though you probably have simply different tresholds about what can draw your sympathy or not, and what amount of sympathy the circumstances give you toward a character.

[BetoJR]

The fact that I understand attenuating circumstances is due to me having a Law School background - it doesn't really have anything to do with sympathy.
Now, that being said, of course killing someone who murdered your family is not the same thing as murdering someone for profit - or whatever. But they're both wrong, unjustifiable acts nonetheless.

Furthermore, I cannot really compare murder with cheating. It's a whole different threshold of bad behavior, honestly... dead people do not come back to life, whereas people who have been cheated on have a more likely option of simply moving on.

[Akka]

Originally Posted by BetoJR

The fact that I understand attenuating circumstances is due to me having a Law School background - it doesn't really have anything to do with sympathy.
Now, that being said, of course killing someone who murdered your family is not the same thing as murdering someone for profit - or whatever. But they're both wrong, unjustifiable acts nonetheless.

Well, if you agree that you can't put on the same footing killing to avenge a murder and killing for profit, we've got at least some common ground.

Would you say it's "unjustifiable" to kill someone in self-defense ? (not that I say it's the case in School Days, just to check if you really consider it really unjustifiable )

Furthermore, I cannot really compare murder with cheating. It's a whole different threshold of bad behavior, honestly... dead people do not come back to life, whereas people who have been cheated on have a more likely option of simply moving on.

Up to now, I was more talking about Kotonoha who, like I already pointed out several times, answered with murder to murder, not to cheating

It's quite obvious that killing is several order of magnitude more severe than cheating, if only because, as you said, there is no going back or healing once you're dead.

But I still think Makoto deserve death, for a purely, well, karmic point of view. I tend to consider that someone's worth depends on who he is, not purely "it's a life". In other words, someone who is good from the bottom of his heart, is "worth" more than someone who is a bastard (of course, again, this is purely from a "karmic" point of view, it's totally impossible to make anything legal or practical about it, and it should never be attempted, this would be a guaranteed vertical slippery slope from the start).
And someone who has been such a basard and made the lives of others miserables... well, let's say, by actively removing happiness from others, he has made his own worth smaller and smaller, up to the point it takes a negative value and he doesn't deserve to live anymore - so here it comes : DIE, ASSHOLE !

I'm perfectly aware that's a very personnal opinion, that's totally unworkable in any kind of legal system (which should keep far away from judging the worth of people) and that's something extremely prone to abuse, warping and subjectivity.
But that's something visceral at the same time, just like when you see a crook getting away laughing with the money and, deep down in your stomach, you ache and think "this is just not fair".