Spice and Wolf II - Episode 3 Discussion / Poll

[typhonsentra]

It airs on Wednesday (Note: As in Wednesday in America) and is usually done by either late Thursday night or early-ish Friday.

[Hari Michiru]

Originally Posted by Mr Hat and Clogs

Good episode, good episode. Horo's breakdown was sad to see, the girl really is afraid of being alone. I'm looking forward to whats going to happen next, it's interesting and a little sneaky.

Think the breakdown scene went a bit too far though...

Spoiler for just in case:

I don't remember Horo asking Lawrence to mate with her in the light novel. Someone refresh me here.

[israfel070]

Originally Posted by Hari Michiru

Think the breakdown scene went a bit too far though...

Spoiler for just in case:

I don't remember Horo asking Lawrence to mate with her in the light novel. Someone refresh me here.

Here's how it was translated on baka-tsuki:

Spoiler for "From novel #3:

“I say you, would you hold me?” Lawrence almost loosened his grip on Horo’s arms. Lawrence looked at Horo’s smiling face, which carried an intensely cold air. Horo was ridiculing her own loss of reason. “I am already alone. But, if I were to have a child, that would make two. Look, I am human in appearance right now, so it would not be impossible to be together with you who are a human, would it? You….”

"Hold me" is literally accurate but kinda lets her blatant offer of cold sex, slip by the reader unnoticed :/

[fish eric]

The scene with Amati, the contract, the sword and Lowrance didn't make much sense to me so I checked the novel.

Check it out, this is pretty interesting.

Lawrence carried a bitter mood as he looked first toward the hilt that Amati was handing to him, and then to the sheepskin paper.

Because there was still some distance between Lawrence and Amati, Lawrence could not clearly make out the contents written on the paper, but he figured it was probably a formal composition detailing what Amati had just declared. The red mark at the bottom-right corner of the paper was surely not a wax seal, but one of blood.

In areas lacking a notary public, or when desiring a contract more valuable than one certified through a notary public, people would adopt the contract law. This so-called “contract law” meant that the one whose blood seal was on the contract had to hand a short sword to the other party and then swear in God’s name.

When unable to abide by the contract, the one who printed the blood seal had to either kill the other party with the short sword, or direct it at his own throat.

The moment Lawrence accepted the short sword from Amati, the contract would be formally established.

Of course, Lawrence did not take action, because he had not expected at all that the situation would evolve to such a height.

[SwiftStrike]

Amati sounds more girlish than I imagined him to be. (but then again, the seiyuu is a female)

but I envy his confidence. or is it recklessness...

[Silvanoshei]

Yeah, I agree with all that said the preview was maddening. Horo cheating because of her confusion... episode 4 NAO!!

[golthin]

Originally Posted by Hari Michiru

Think the breakdown scene went a bit too far though...

Spoiler for just in case:

I don't remember Horo asking Lawrence to mate with her in the light novel. Someone refresh me here.

she does not ask to mate, but to "be together" but in the context of she wanting a child it is basically the same as asking to mate. the anime just make it clearer, it being a different medium. written text in japanese can be more precise than spoken Japanese thanks to the Kanji system thus why the writers changed what Horo said to make it clearer. you could say that a little was lost in the translation of the Novel, even though I myself would have reached the same conclusion even reading the translated text.

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by Silvanoshei

Yeah, I agree with all that said the preview was maddening. Horo cheating because of her confusion... episode 4 NAO!!

Would love to see Amarti's face if he finds her tail and ears...and the heretic seems like the type to report it to the church too, as I see his "love" for Horo a pretty superficial thing.

I don't think Lawrence knew much of Horo's hometown in the beginning other than that it was a legendary place. It was rather unfair for Horo to jump to conclusions that Lawrence was taking pity on her as I'm sure he is hurt too.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

Would love to see Amarti's face if he finds her tail and ears...and the heretic seems like the type to report it to the church too, as I see his "love" for Horo a pretty superficial thing.

I'm not so sure about that. He had, before this mess started, 800 silvers' worth of assets (OK, plus whatever he managed to hide from the IRS). He's willing to part with 125% of that just to ask for Horo's hand in marriage. Even if he doubles or triples his fortune in two days, it's still a significant amount.

What is true is that he doesn't know Horo. He was completely fooled by her dainty act.

I guess a lot would depend on how betrayed he'd feel in learning of Horo's true nature (and I don't just mean the ears and tail) and how much of a believer he is.

I pity Amati. He's the antagonist, but he's not a villain.

[Filozof]

in my opinion horo is not some adolescent girl, so i think she can be trusted not to be stupid anytime soon. perhaps stupid in a clumsy and cute way, but she is after all horo the wise.

and after all she did apologise after being "a bit" rash. and it is a big thing, i mean the apology from her mouth, in the middle of (almost) loosing it.

i learned trough the first series that she would be the last to betray lawrence, even if she acts in a teasing manner when it comes to expresing her feelings for lawrence. actually this makes her even more trustworthy, because it shows she trusts him.

and my opinion of amati is quite low, rushing trough the door like a raging bull not knowing what is on the other side isn't very merchant like. and he was swayed by horo quite quickly.
i wouldn't say this could count as a scam from horo-tachi side, because no action was provoked, amati just acted from his own near sightedness, and blind arogance, trusting his own right and rightness without proof. one could say he acts quite narcissistic.

oh well...

cant wait for the next episode.

[Anh_Minh]

There's certainly a bit of arrogance to him. And he's being very, very rash, but it's understandable:
- he's a kid;
- he's in love, probably for the first time;
- if he lets her get away now, he may never see her again;
- he has no close friend to give him some perspective in such matters.

And all he's done is basically tell Lawrence: please let me give you 1000 silver Trennies. He hasn't tried to buy Horo as if she was property. He just did the only thing he could to even have the legal right to ask for Horo's hand. Also of note, he hasn't tried anything as distasteful as saying "I'll free you from your debt if you agree to marry me". Or to buy her debt to hold it himself.

[Filozof]

it could be like that, but that was quite a flashy move, to chalenge him infront of so many people from the same guild, i guess he must be quite convinced in his opinion of lawrence, which can't be very good, as to me it seemed he is acting like a proud knight trying to save a maiden from an evil dragon.

i think i do understand what you could be saying. might be he is so enfatuated with horo, he is incapable of acting sober, he is quite young...

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Filozof

it could be like that, but that was quite a flashy move, to chalenge him infront of so many people from the same guild, i guess he must be quite convinced in his opinion of lawrence, which can't be very good, as to me it seemed he is acting like a proud knight trying to save a maiden from an evil dragon.

It's a rational move, as it puts more pressure on Lawrence to accept. It's true he does act a bit like a savior, but from his point of view, Horo's with Lawrence only because she's shackled to him by her debt, which is a shitty reason to be with someone and accept the rigors of such a journey. Amati's offering her a stable household with a comfortable amount of money. (He's not super-rich or anything, but he makes a good living, even for a merchant. And he's young - he's only going to get better.)

Spoiler for novel. Not future events.:

Though he also somewhat acted like a savior in the novel too, he also said he was aware his actions would make him look like a bad man, trying to get between a couple. But that he didn't mind making that sacrifice for Horo's sake.

[Filozof]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

but from his point of view, Horo's with Lawrence only because she's shackled to him by her debt, which is a shitty reason to be with someone and accept the rigors of such a journey.

which is just his rash interpretation, as i understand it he recieved no such information.

[Anh_Minh]

Uh... That's the story Horo served him. He didn't come up with it out of thin air.

[Filozof]

could you quote that, i don't remember any such claims being made to him by horo or lawrence.

[Anh_Minh]

Episode 2, around the 20 minutes mark.

[fish eric]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I'm not so sure about that. He had, before this mess started, 800 silvers' worth of assets (OK, plus whatever he managed to hide from the IRS). He's willing to part with 125% of that just to ask for Horo's hand in marriage. Even if he doubles or triples his fortune in two days, it's still a significant amount.

What is true is that he doesn't know Horo. He was completely fooled by her dainty act.

I guess a lot would depend on how betrayed he'd feel in learning of Horo's true nature (and I don't just mean the ears and tail) and how much of a believer he is.

I pity Amati. He's the antagonist, but he's not a villain.

He really isnt a villain in the classic sense but he is trying to take another man's woman, and that just isn't right.

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by fish eric

He really isnt a villain in the classic sense but he is trying to take another man's woman, and that just isn't right.

& to Amati, Horo is not Lawrence's Woman. So yeah, doing nothing wrong.

[golthin]

Originally Posted by Filozof

could you quote that, i don't remember any such claims being made to him by horo or lawrence.

after Horo came back, Lawrence saw the fur she was wearing and he asked her what story did she use to fool the guy. she explained what she told him. She told him that Lawrence saved her from some people and then that she got in debt with him and that she is travelling with him till she pays the debt. She didn't lie, but she kept some information about she travelling to find her home, and that if you look at it the debt was an excuse that Lawrence made to travel together.