2004-04-20, 13:22
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Link #44 | |
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the Iniquitous
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: bogotá
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2004-04-20, 14:47
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Link #45 | |
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Hmm...
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Looking for his book...
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May the mods forgive me... but my tolerence has reached it's end.
[begins the frustrated rant...] Quote:
Do you realize that the parts of the world the show is currently airing in only amasse to roughly 65% of the world's population. Furthermore, you are assuming that every person in those countries loves and actively watches the show or is even able to watch it for that matter. Have you ever been deep into main land China? I didn't see many televisions or people with cable television last time I was there. You can't honestly believe that every person in those countries watches or even cares about the show, can you? Just because I watch a show doesn't mean I'm a fan of it, it means that I happen to watch it and nothing more. At best I'd say only a quarter of them have anything more than a passing interest in the show. Whether I miss an episode or ten matters not. 90% and your corrected 60% are both vastly incorrect, even assuming I estimated wrong, you're only looking at 15-16% tops. Millions of fans conducting a letter writing campaign... I doubt it. Point in case; in North America, in the 60's, Star Trek was phenomenally popular. However it was cancelled at the beginning of it's third season, I think it was the third. To this date fans claim that they wrote and sent over five million letters to NBC Studios demanding the show continue. NBC Studios on the other hand has the letters on file, they kept one letter per address, and they state that the total number of individual letters they recieved was no greater fifty thousand. Odds are, when Saint Seiya was cancelled, it was the letters from the Japanese viewers that influenced their decision and not those from Europe or Latin America or even the 'beautiful fan art' from France. You seem to know nothing of North American broadcast standards, so let me educate you. In North America you are not allowed to depict large amounts of blood in childrens shows (a drop of blood from a pricked finger or scraped knee is fine). The scenes you showed captures of were justly removed, children don't need to see a person dripping with blood in a murderous rage. There are laws in place against it and for good cause too. If blood is to be depicted it must be in a form where it cannot be directly seen as blood. Thus they make it green. Also in North America large amounts of violence or violent scenes cannot be depicted in children's shows.
Look... He stuck his arm into that other man's chest, there's blood ozing out and he's smiling about it... No responsible parent in North America would want an impressionable child to watch this. Warner Brothers was sued over a cayote that didn't die after falling off a cliff, but somehow you think a show depicting people disemboweling and impaling each other with their bare hands would be accepted by everybody. Come On!!
Last edited by Mr_Paper; 2004-04-20 at 15:29. Reason: Fixed some spelling and grammar |
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2004-04-20, 14:49
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Link #46 |
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Hmm...
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Looking for his book...
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[I didn't think it would go this long... but, above post continued] Honestly, given the guidelines and criteria they had to meet they did a fine job of adapting it. The only issue is that you don't like it. When you have a legally dependant minor in your care, your opinion will matter to the powers at be which determine what is suitable for children to watch in North America. Until then, deal with it. As far as plot, character development, artwork and music... There is better. Both the plot and the character development was weak. It's a series filled with cliche characters and motivations. There were other series that began that same year that had far better artwork than Saint Seiya, The Anthologies of Japanese Literature for example. It had lovely music, artwork, amazing plots and far more character development. Now, I don't expect to to agree with everything I've said, or any of it for that matter. However, I would ask that before you go off on another tyraid as to how great your favorite series is or why it should be considered the best you stop, think and seriously consider what you're going to post. [ends the frustrated rant...] Okay... I can't name one series as the best, but I'd suggest the World Master piece Theatre series as they're generally an arm and a leg above the rest. /me sighs. Last edited by Mr_Paper; 2004-04-20 at 14:52. Reason: forgive the double post but I couldn't seem to edit(paragraph breaks, etc..) the top one anymore. |
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2004-04-21, 01:19
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Link #48 | |
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Kurumada's lost child
Join Date: Nov 2003
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 ) and web pages, like the one I created, can be found all over the internet. Even now, if you go to any forum about SS you will find that the people still discuss the old series quite actively, as much as a Naruto forum. Saint Seiya IS extremely famous in many parts of the world, and its fame is due to the excellent development of the series. The characters are complex; the people who watch this anime become easily attached to a particular character, and they are able to defend their favorite character until the last consequences (My favorite characters are Milo (the one on my avatar ), Hyoga, Saga and Mime ) the story line is very entertaining; even the adults watch the series. The music is probably the best anime music ever; it is very similar to classical music, even my mother listens to it (as well the music from Final Fantasy ) and the graphics have always been top notch for its time (even the Saint Seiya Hades Ovas, have one of the best graphics in current anime shows) In brief, I strongly suggest you to go back and watch again Saint Seiya and get passed the 6th episode. You won't regret it. As for the US edition of Saint Seiya please take a look at this threads: http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=10994 Cartoon Network Forums http://forums.toonzone.net/search.php?searchid=204377 I hope that you understand now that Saint Seiya deserves to be called one the best anime of all the time
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2004-04-21, 02:37
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Link #49 |
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Gomen asobase desuwa!
Join Date: Nov 2003
Age: 43
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As a person who watched "Saint Seiya" back when I was six in the golden age of Toei-Shueisha collaborations, I do agree with you that "Saint Seiya" has been one of my memorable anime for my childhood. I strongly assume that most of my peers in my age group would also think the same about "Saint Seiya." We were all watching this on Saturdays at 7:00PM from 1986 to 1989.
But then again, it was not just "Saint Seiya." At the same time, we were also watching "Hokuto no Ken," "Dragon Ball," and "CITY HUNTER." It was all the hype back then, as these were the most popular series on Shonen Jump Magazine. Much of these hype is very similar to what I see with "Naruto," "Hunter x Hunter," and "ONE PIECE" today. So let's do a little statistical calculation here. The majority of the people that were fans and were watching "Saint Seiya" are around my age group: 23 to 28. To keep things simple, let's just say 20-29. Using the National Statistics Bureau's estimate of our population as of April 2004 (http://www.stat.go.jp/data/jinsui/ts...dex.htm#05k2-1), the total Japanese population in the age group 20-29 comes to: male: 8,540,000 female: 8,210,000 Now, according to ACR (Audience and Consumer Report), roughly 70% of male children and 30% of female children read Shonen Jump. Although this data is based on 2002 percentages, let's assume it was the same during the time "Saint Seiya" was serialized and shown on TV. male: 8,540,000 x 0.7 = 5,987,000 female: 8,210,000 x 0.3 = 2,463,000 ______________________________ total: 5,987,000 + 2,463,000 = 8,450,000 Therefore, if you assume all the readers in my age group that was reading Shonen Jump at the time "Saint Seiya" was serialized, you have approximately 8,450,000. Let's round this off to 9,000,000 at the most to allow room for some older generations who might've been reading this as well (But keep in mind that it is not necessarily that all Jump readers might've like "Saint Seiya" at the time as well). So, give or take, the highest assumable threshold for "Saint Seiya" is 9,000,000 here in Japan. Going back to National Statistic Bureau estimates, our current population as of April 2004 is estimated to be around 127,710,000 persons. What is the more probable answer for "Saint Seiya" fans in Japan? 9,000,000/127,710,000 x 100 = 7.04% at the most ...and as for the Toei's vision of the currently released "Saint Seiya" stance is listed under "for fans only anime project" (Japanese euphemism: "stuff that are made only for die-hard fans") as listed under Toei's quarter statement report for March 2004: http://www.toei-anim.co.jp/corporate...20031126pp.pdf Also, as for "Saint Seiya Overture" movie, it did not even make the top 10 when it was released on February 14th. Bad timing I would say, as that week was also the first week where "Lord of the Rings ~ Return of the King" was shown in Japan, which was a smash hit. As for this last weekend (April 17 & 18), the top ten movies in Japan were as follows: 1 "Meitantei Conan - Giyoku no Kijutsushi(Magician) 2 "Crayon-Shinchan - Arashi o Yobu! Yuuhi no Kasukabe Boys" 3 "Lord of the Rings - Return of the King" 4 "Ocean of Fire" 5 "Peter Pan" 6 "Queer" 7 "Appleseed - the movie" 8 "Koibito wa Sniper" 9 "Ren-ai Tekireiki" 10 "Brother Bear" |
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2004-04-21, 05:14
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Link #50 | |
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love the HYDE
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 41
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2004-04-21, 11:23
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Link #51 | |
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Kurumada's lost child
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Unfortunately, even if Saint Seiya was taking over in places like South America, Central America, and Europe. Toei Animation decided to end the series as soon as possible. The reason was that the series' main source of capital was Japan and, as I mentioned before, this country was the place in which Saint Seiya had the lowest amount of success. As a result, In spite of the fact that the story was not complete, Masamy Kurumada, the creator of the series, was forced by Toei to give a quick ending to the anime. And so, the series ended abruptly in the Poseidon Saga. The final chapter of Saint Seiya, the hades chapter, was realeased in the manga of the anime. Every body thought that this was the end for the series, and that there was no hope for Saint Seiya to have a decent ending. However, for 15 years, after the series was series finished, Saint Seiya was still a hit in most parts of the world, and millions of fans were sending thousands of letters every year to Toei animation claiming for the series to continue. And, as I mentioned in my earlier posts, those claims were heard in December of 2002 when Toie animation surprised the whole world by airing Saint Seiya on TV again in Japan and then animating the Hades chapter, which is now being released in DVD format. Moreover, the series proved to be a total hit once again, and now Toei has new plans for continuing the series even after the Hades chapter. A proof of that is the new manga called Episode G, and the new movie of Saint Seiya realeased in japan this year. For what I've seen, the episode G is a total hit in Japan, and there are other countries interested in buying the rights to edit it, a good example of that is Argentina, which is already distributing it fully translated into Spanish. France and Spain are already in the process of acquiring the manga and, in a very shot period of time, they will be releasing it as well. As you can see the future of Saint Seiya couldn't have been better than it is and I hope to have more of Saint Seiya in the years to come. I'm currently waiting for the Hell chapter of the Hades saga, which is supposed to be released in November of this year. And who knows maybe we will get to see the Zeus saga, as well as the animated Episode G. Saint Seiya forever  PS. I'm waiting for another miracle to come; I am hoping to see a continuation for my second favorite anime of all time, Berserk. Perhaps it will get released some time in the future (May be in 15 years  )
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2004-04-21, 13:16
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Link #52 |
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the Iniquitous
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: bogotá
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Sugetsu has like 10 best animes ever!
 who can blame him? anime is too good for just liking one series.Mr paper: You made a mistake when you stop seeeing the series at ep 6. I hated too as matter of fact, specially the first episodes, but when I saw the sanctuary arc with the golden saints that was it, I became an insane saint seiya fan. The music and story are great, I found extrange that you don't like it, but the chances are you haven't seen it completly, the asgard part has one of the most amazing music i've heard, and the character development in that part is amazing too, you really should try it, just stand the first episodes, the animation is old! you have to give them credit for that! An important clarification: In the pic you show shiriu is NOT laughing, he is the character with the least probability of doing that. Saint Seiya is always about friendship, loyalty and love for your friends, sometimes the even exaggerate, they are all willing to give their lives for their friends and love ones. The show is indeed very bloody, and the policy of US is respectable but I disagree with it, I saw that when I was 13 years old and Im not traumatized and neither anyone who saw it ( wich is practicly everyone here). I disagree with you when you say DiC made a fine job adapting it, if they remove the blood, fine, I can cope with that, but changing the music and story on ANY anime I think is the same as destroying it.  I disagree too with the USA policy of censorship, seems they are more worried about removing pornography and violence on TV than removing the use of weapons, you know, the type of weapons who actually kill people in real life kj1980: Have you seen the movie?, if you have, how is it? is the same as the others?, I read is very different. And for your calculation I think is the same everywhere, here is probably just that low percentage, but I think thats the general percentage of anime viewers (outside Asia of course), someone correct me if Im wrong please. Oh besides I have read that the doujinshi scene was huge with Saint Seiya, specially among women in Japan (in a show full of bishounen what else would you expect  )is that true also?And for all of you the letters sent to toei are real. When I was sufing the internet in the previous years I found a mention of the letters in almost every Saint Seiya site. I even download the letter in japanese to send it myself, I didn't do it though... |
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2004-04-21, 13:29
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Link #53 | |
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Gomen asobase desuwa!
Join Date: Nov 2003
Age: 43
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A. I never said "Saint Seiya" was not popular in Japan. It was very popular. But if you take it in a statistical view, it only makes 7% of the population. Why? Because as much as I would like to stress this again anime is for kids. My parents did not watch "Saint Seiya" alongside with me when I was a child, and my parents' generation make up the majority of the population as they were the baby-boomers. Nor do you see the upper strata of older, pre-war generations watching anime as well. Much as saying the movie "Passion of the Christ" was a huge hit in your country, yet if you look at it statistically it will only make up the majority of the Christian population in the United States.
B. On the contrary, "Saint Seiya" was a huge success in Japan. It raked in millions from toys, action figures, video sales, etc. BUT success does not mean everyone was into it. Much as saying that you hear the phrase "Toyota Camry is the #1 best selling car in America" does not mean everyone owns a Camry. Nee, "Saint Seiya was a major hit in Japan and was a greatest success across the world" does not mean its "all the 'rave' across the world." That crown goes to the ills "poverty, malnutrition, and AIDS." C. Yes, "Saint Seiya" is still popular - but mainly towards the now 20-somethings who were watching this as children. The author, Kurumada Masami, caters to those fans with her works "Ring ni Kakero," "Bt'X" and "Saint Seiya G." Is it popular? Yes. But not in the vast over-the-strata limits as you see in Inoue Takehiko's "Vagabond." Quote:
estimated 2004 world population: ~6,300,000,000 = A estimated population of 5-34 years olds in the world: ~3,200,000,000 = B estimated population of 5-34 year olds in Africa: ~2,400,000,000 = C __________________________________________________ _________ very rough estimate of upper threshold of population that may/can have access/watch/read "Saint Seiya" = [(B-C) / A] x 100 which comes to 12.6% Which the number is still too high. Why? Because this equation is flawed. A more better equation would be on the means of: Let D = number of people in age group 5-34 in poverty level, [(B-D) / A] x 100 Which will still be flawed. So the reason why I gave the equation above, is because that will give you the idea of the highest upper strata of possibility. Considering such case, the more probable reasoning is that the percentage of the world's population that know "Saint Seiya" is roughly the same as the Japanese national percentage of 7% or below. In a sense, this equation (although flawed) will be also be the highest upper strata of the population of the world that may/can have access to Western media. But then again, it is flawed as it doesn't take into effect the people in nations that do not maintain relations with Western countries. And so, without further ado, the point of this thread of "best anime" has strayed off course. In addition that there are numerous threads that are similar to the title, I kindly ask that this thread be closed. Last edited by kj1980; 2004-04-21 at 13:59. |
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2004-04-21, 13:40
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Link #54 |
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the Iniquitous
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: bogotá
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I think that Sugetsu's 60% of the world is more like 60% of the anime world. In latinamerica as far as Im concerned is probably 90% if not more. if a latinamerican likes anime, chances are he/she loves Saint Seiya.
Last edited by mantidor; 2004-04-21 at 14:39. Reason: grammar errors, i know, my english sucks...:( |
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2004-04-21, 15:30
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Link #56 | |
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the Iniquitous
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: bogotá
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The thread's topic is cool anime, at least that's the clarification made from the thread's starter (sorry I forgot his/her name), and there is a difference between "best" and "cool" as he/she said. to keep the thread on topic I add other anime which I think are cool: Evangelion: The psychological part fascinates me. Pokemon: why i am the only one who likes it? the games are great an the team rocket is funny like no other, the main characters can be lame but the battles are nice. Besides it was the first in his type  well maybe no, but is definitly the most succesful in his type.Last Exile: I like everything about this one, the music, the characters and the story, the only bad part is Spoiler for last exile:
Last edited by mantidor; 2004-04-21 at 15:51. |
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2004-04-21, 16:00
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Link #57 | ||||||
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Hmm...
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Looking for his book...
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I don't speak or read Spanish that well so I gave up on your site after the first two paragraphs, forgive me but the time available to me during the day doesn't allow me enough time to sit and translate one website. With regards to the letters, I do not doubt that they were sent (I even saw one or two sites with copies of them available). My point was/is that it is far more likely that the number of letters sent was exagerated and that the major influence to restart and/or continue the series was due to interest in the domestic market over the international market. Most companies try to make or market a product that can be sold domestically before internationally (specialize in the market you know). "Even now, if you go to any forum about SS you will find that the people still discuss the old series quite actively, as much as a Naruto forum."Of course they would, why would people not discuss a series in a forum dedicated to the discussion of it? This arguement is a falacy. You might as well have said "the series is great because it is discussed in such forums." Yes the series is popular in some parts of the world but, by no means, does that in anyway imply that it is or has to be popular everywhere. As kj1980 pointed out, only roughly 7% of the worlds population is both old enough to have watched the series and in a social position that would afford them the ability to watch the series. As you add other factors the percentage drops even further. Quote:
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Your a parent, you know nothing about Saint Seiya and have likely never heard of it. You walk into a room one day and see you child, around 8 or 10, watching a cartoon which just depicted a man being impaled by the arm of another man. You don't know the characters or why they're doing this but one of them seems to be smirking about it. Do you shrug it off and go do something else? Or do what you can to prevent your child from seeing such things? In North America, my home and my experiences with my parents, you turn of the television, tell the child they're never going to watch that show again and throw them outside to go play with their friends. Then take steps to ensure your child can't see it again. I don't know about the rest of the world, but it seems common sense to protect young and impressionable minds from such images. There is enough violence in the real world, children don't need to see it in cartoons on television. Quote:
As I've said before, children do not need to be exposed to such things. Quote:
I'm going to stop now, I could easily go on like my previous posts (this one would probably be longer...) but my lunch break is nearly over and I have far better things to do with my day then fret over something like this. Quote:
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2004-04-21, 16:04
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Link #58 |
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Hmm...
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Looking for his book...
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/me floor drops
I didn't realize how long it really was. Maybe I should cut back on the long posts for a while. In an effort, like mantidor, to help get the thread back on topic, I'd also suggest Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou and Kokoro Toshokan. Both are lovely, short, little series/OVAs that one can watch without having to worry about complex plots or dramatic cliffhangers and they leave you with a somewhat elated feeling when they're done.
Last edited by Mr_Paper; 2004-04-21 at 16:05. Reason: I tried combining this with the previous post but no no avail, it's too long. I even had to remove a couple paragraph breaks to make it fit. |
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??
You must be part of that very small percentage of people who think that this show is crap. And I don't blame you since you may have watched it in the US and most kids in the US think it is crap. But 90% of the whole world think Saint Seiya is one the best animes ever made 
