AnimeSuki Forums

Haak · 2011-09-30, 13:28

Hello everyone. As you may know every year we've been holding a competition called the Animesuki Choice Awards, where people can vote for the best anime airing that year. At the end of the 2010 Choice Awards we had a number of suggestions on how to improve the Awards for 2011 and after a lot of discussion on each topic we decided that it would be best to put these suggestions up for a vote (In other words, we couldn't agree on any of them). As you can see there are a lot of choices but don't be too daunted. It should only take about a few minutes at most to consider each option.
As you can see it's a multiple choice poll where you can vote for more than one option and don't have to vote for every option. You simply tick the choice you'd like.

We found that there are essentially two main factions within the Animesuki community when suggesting improvements for the Choice Awards. There are those that argue that there are too many categories and the number needs to be minimised and there are those who want more categories added because they believe there are certain categories that deserve to be celebrated. Here are two versions could the Choice Awards that you can choose between.

Version A - Minimalistic (16)

Spoiler for space:

Version B - Extended (28)

Spoiler for space:

However we understand that it is not all black and white. Whilst some may prefer there to be less categories we understand that not all the changes made for the Minimalistic version would be preferable. Similarly those who advocate for more categories would not necessarily want all the categories added from the Extended version. There may even be some who support the Minimalistic idea but would still advocate the inclusion of certain new categories. This is why the following choices have also been included in the poll, since this will allow us to gain a better idea of what would be preferred in the next Choice Awards:

Spoiler for space:

It is important that you vote for the ones you would prefer, regardless of which Version you chose. This is important since due to the poll format not voting for an option effectively counts as voting against it . For example, if many people were to vote for the Extended version but forget to vote for Adding a [Setting] category, this could lead to the assumption that those who would like the Extended version do not want a Setting category.

To help you decide we have provided a summary of the positions put forward in our discussions on each of the choices, group into four topics.

The Status Quo
A vote for “Support the Status Quo” means that you would like the categories to be exactly the same as how they were in the 2010 Choice Awards. Unfortunately I wasn't able to put this choice in the poll due to restrictions so please post to indicate this option.

Proposed changes to Sci-fi /Fantasy and Drama section:

Spoiler for space:

Proposed changes to the Production Elements section

Spoiler for space:

These are the following changes in the Extended Version
1: Split Storyline into Best Anime Original Story and Best Adaptation (from LN, manga, VN, whatever).
2: Split Visual/Animation into Overall Best Visual/Animation and Best Action/Fight Scene Animation

The argument for splitting best Storyline into Best Storyline, Best Anime Original and Best Adaptation is that Anime Originals should be given an opportunity to compete with each other. Others contend that separating the two will have little/no meaning for those who rarely/don't read manga and that this will be another unnecessary addition that can lead to too many categories. There is also a potential for abuse with the Best Adaption as it lead to lots people voting for an anime without even knowing what the original source is like.

The argument for splitting Visual/Animation into Overall Best Visual/Animation and Best Action/Fight Scene Animation is that there is a significant section of the community that prefers and judges animation based on fight scenes and so non-action stories that have amazing animation are underrepresented. Others contend that this is myth since previous winner shows that half the winners for this category were non action anime and the two that were is an anime that is considered to have great art and animation regardless of its fight scenes. They also argue that it is already difficult to judge Visual/Animation and that this could complicate things. They also argue that “Best Action/Fight Scene Animation” is already a criterion used to judge Best Action/Fighting anime. They also believe that it could be another unnecessary addition that can lead to too many categories.

Here are the following changes to vote for:
1: Split Soundtrack into Best Opening/Ending (must specify the specific ED/OP) and Best BGM
2: Add a Best Setting Design category
3: Split Visual/Animation with separate categories for TV and Movies/OVAs
4: Add a Best Character Design (Entire Cast) category
The argument for splitting Soundtrack into Best OP/ED theme and Best BGM is that OP/ED themes are distinct from BGM and that some animes will have poor BGM's but notable OP/ED themes that are worth celebrating. Others contend that it could be another unnecessary addition that can lead to too many categories.

The argument for adding a Best Setting/World category is that this can be a distinct element in anime that can even determine whether an anime is enjoyable or not, and that there is no other established category that celebrates this. Others contend that it could be difficult to define what a setting is and that it could be another unnecessary addition that can lead to too many categories.

The argument for splitting Visual/Animation with separate categories for TV series and Movies/OVA's is that it is unfair for TV series, with their lower production values to compete with Movies/OVA's which have a clear advantage. Others contend that TV series can still have better art than many Movies and thus can win the category. They also believe that it could be another unnecessary addition that can lead to too many categories.

The argument for adding a Best Character Design category is…because it sounds a like a good idea. Others contend that this should fall under Visual/Animation on the basis of art and that it could be another unnecessary addition that can lead to too many categories.

Proposed changes to the Individual Character section

Spoiler for space:

Thank you for your time and feel free to discuss any of the topics here. If there are any other suggestions you’d like to make then please feel free to make them.

Previous Winners:
2010 Winners
2009 Winners
2008 Winners
2007 Winners

Sheba · 2011-09-30, 13:44

My "french" need to clearly seperate "genres" is heavily against the move to merge sci-fi with fantasy. When I say sci-fi, I think Deus EX, Macross or steins;gate. When I say fantasy, I think Conan the Barbarian, Tolkien, Moorcock and A Song of Ice and Fire. And yeah, remove "Worst Character". We have enough "hate" threads as it is.

Kyuu · 2011-09-30, 14:52

Let's go Mimimalistic, with a few addons. (Mispelling done on purpose) :3

Fewer the categories. Having 28 categories is way too much. Why else are the real award shows ever becoming more irrelevant? The more pressure to get certain winners. Greater chance of butthurt. Oh, and Keep "Worst Character".

Kaioshin Sama · 2011-09-30, 15:15

I'd say minimalistic, but my main problem with that is that it merges several genres that aren't necessarily inseparable like drama/romance and Sci-Fi/Fantasy and yet keeps incredibly vague pseudo-genres like "slice of life" as their own seperate entity for some reason. As such I'd have to pick extended just because it handles each category a little better a little better in my eyes.

SeijiSensei · 2011-09-30, 15:29

Just a few quick comments.

1) Drama is drama. It shouldn't be combined with any other category. House of Five Leaves and Hyouge Mono are both dramas, though neither have much romance, nor are they tragedies. (HM could have tragic moments down the road; at the moment, we've only got seven episodes to work with.)

2) I didn't see the option for having separate "best adaptation" and "best original" productions in the poll. I vote for having both. There are quite a few original productions this year, though we'll need to be careful to make sure shows are classified correctly.

3) I also think OP/ED songs need to be treated separately from scores. I'll be nominating the score for Hyouge Mono, but the (current) OP isn't much to write home about. (The original OP may deserve a nomination, but it was pulled by NHK after episode four when one of the performers was arrested for marijuana possession.)

4) I'm very mixed about merging fantasy and science-fiction. The best argument in favor of a merger is the small number of shows in these categories.

5) I will strongly reiterate my position that people be prohibited from nominating a show in more than one genre category. That just leads to the most popular shows dominating in multiple categories. A single show should be eligible for nomination in one genre category and one of the "best of" categories, but that's it. (Obviously the same show can appear in one or more production categories as well.)

6) I voted for the "supporting" categories, though they're probably the ones that should be axed first. The "worst character" category is useless and should be dumped.

The biggest issue that hasn't been addressed is the time period involved. We've used calendar years in the past, which has proven problematic when considering two-cour shows that premiere in the fall. Some have suggested starting with the fall and extending through the next summer, following the US model of a television year. I had a discussion about anime "seasons" over on ANN not long ago, and one contributor thought that it made more sense to follow the Japanese school year which begins in the spring. That would mean waiting until April to begin the "2011" Awards process. For this transition year, we'd need to include shows that were released over the 15-month period starting on 1/1/2011 and ending on 3/31/2012. After that we'd just run from April to April.

Here are some data for your consideration:

These are taken from AniDB (2010 data), including only non-hentai television series with "synonyms" excluded. I re-counted April, 2011, three times to convince myself there were really fifty new series released that month. April to April makes quite a bit of sense given these data.

Kudos to you for carrying on this fine tradition, Haak!

Archon_Wing · 2011-09-30, 15:46

Extended; IMO, it's less likely to leave people out.

Also... worst character. Hmm, nah, someone needs to be crowned twice before it ends.
/hater

Just kidding; this year has far worse characters.

Also, OP/ED would rock

Kyuu · 2011-09-30, 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

Also... worst character. Hmm, nah, someone needs to be crowned twice before it ends.
/hater

If that happens, I will lecture on how all of you are bad people! Oh very bad indeed. XD

Flower · 2011-09-30, 15:49

Most of the ideas thus far I agree with, esp as expressed by Seiji:

I like the idea of a OP/ED section separate from the OST/score for a series.

I would also prefer a minimalistic collection of categories.

I would like to see the "Worst Character" category removed.

But I would vote against merging fantasy and sci fi. To me as well they are two very separate categories.

****

All that being said, there's no reason we can't change things next year if something does not work out very well.

Archon_Wing · 2011-09-30, 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyuu

If that happens, I will lecture on how all of you are bad people! Oh very bad indeed. XD

That's not really news though...

Actually, if I wanted to cement myself as a bad person, i'd vote Kaiji for comedy.

Kotohono · 2011-09-30, 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

Extended; IMO, it's less likely to leave people out.

Also, OP/ED would rock

I agree for extended I think it would work better. Worst Character I don't particularly care if it's there or not

.

OP/ED I guess could be good.

Reckoner · 2011-09-30, 16:22

I definitely say extended, but I'm also for cutting down on categories that don't make sense.

First of all I'm not sure why there is a slice of life category. No one even agrees on what that term even means so why not just combine it with the drama category? I also think romance should be combined with the drama category, but that's just me.

Sci-fi and fantasy should never, ever be the same genre. They're two completely different things.

If we are to separate TV series from movies, OVA's should be separated from movies as well. Some OVA's have high production values comparable to films, but I would think that most do not.

I like the idea of an OP/ED category, as well as adaption and original stories.

I also like the calendar date proposal that Seiji pointed out. I only half agree with his claim that a show be prohibited form being nominated in more than one genre. I would say two as many shows are multiple genres so it's a fair compromise I would think.

Also why not add categories like best VA, best director, etc. if you really want to model it after the academy awards.

Triple_R · 2011-09-30, 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

5) I will strongly reiterate my position that people be prohibited from nominating a show in more than one genre category. That just leads to the most popular shows dominating in multiple categories. A single show should be eligible for nomination in one genre category and one of the "best of" categories, but that's it. (Obviously the same show can appear in one or more production categories as well.)

I'm very much inclined to agree with this. Either that, or limit to two genre categories per anime should extended win out, in line with Reck's suggestion.

I'm very much against sci-fi and fantasy being fused together. On the whole, I prefer extended over minimalist, mainly for the reasons that Kaioshin expressed.

SeijiSensei · 2011-09-30, 16:45

Well, let's take the obvious contender for big winner in this year's Awards, Madoka Magica. How many genre categories should that qualify for?

-{A1}- [Action/Adventure] - maybe
-{A2}- [Fantasy] - yes
-{A3}- [Sci-Fi] - maybe
-{A4}- [Mystery/Horror] - yes
-{A5}- [Comedy] - no
-{A6}- [Drama/Tragedy] - yes
-{A7}- [Romance] - no (yuri shippers be damned)
-{A8}- [Slice of Life] - no
-{A9}- [Fanservice/Ecchi/Moe] - maybe
-{A0}- [Sports/Game/Hobby] - no

Many "mystery/horror" shows can also be regarded as "fantasies" as well as "dramas," and it's not hard to conceive of many of them falling into "action/adventure" as well.

One solution to this is to impose genre categories before the nominating process by executive fiat. We'd provide the list of eligible shows categorized by genres. That still lets people nominate their favorites, but would provide more structure than we have now. As for who should exert this fiat, perhaps the moderators, or maybe Haak himself since he seems up for the task of carrying this on.

If that smacks too much of fascism, then I submit that my original suggestion of one genre nomination per show provides a democratic method with reasonable structure. Two is the absolute upper limit in my mind.

Sphire · 2011-09-30, 17:28

Let's see, I think I voted for:

Minimalistic, combine fantasy with sci-fi, add an OP/ED soundtrack, seperate visual animation for TV series, remove worst character, and add supporting character.

So in truth, my number of preferred categories would fall in between minimalistic and extended. I think the extended one given has way too many categories.

I think sci-fi can be merged with fantasy, mostly because I don't think there are many shows for each specifically. Although I'm not adverse to separating them. I do question why action/adventure aren't separated? That way you can separate which shows have purely good action moments, and which have purely good adventure moments. If a show happens to have both, then it can run in both. Case in point, last year I felt Katanagatari was great with its adventure elements, but not so much with its action elements. Plus I think each genre has a good deal of shows too. As an example for this year, PMMM might be nominated for its action elements, but it has no adventure element to it. Heck adventure would merge better with fantasy I feel.

I vote for separating drama from romance too. In fact, I think romance shouldn't be considered a genre at all, simply because it overlaps with so many other genres. I'd prefer a 'best romance portrayal in anime' sort of thing, that way viewers will see that regardless of genre, which show had the best romance/s in it. I don't think you should limit drama to tragedies either.

An OP/ED choice would be nice. Even separating OPs and EDs would be good to me. BGM on the other hand, do people really take notice? Whats to stop that from being a popularity vote, I don't tend to notice BGMs myself.

I don't care for a action/battle animation category, a general one should be fine. At first I thought you meant a 'best fight scene of the year' or something, which kinda sounds cool and feeds the anime geek in me. With others like 'best shock/surprise of the year' and 'best dialogue/speech of the year' and 'best gag of the year' and 'most tear-jerking moment of the year' and others culminating in 'best moment of the year' sorta thing. But again, that may be too many categories, and I might be the only one who would like those, heh. Plus, some spoilers too almost guaranteed.

For storyline, I don't see a reason to separate original from adaptations. Just put a notice beside each show so people know if anything.

And no worse character please. Pointless category is pointless.

As for the calender thing, I have no issue with just using shows that ended in 2011. Going to April 2012, you'd then be including 1-cour winter shows, meaning it'll be more a best of 2011/2012 thing. Plus you lose 2-cour winter shows anyway that get pushed onto 2012/2013 awards (or are there none of those?), so there's always a lost. Bakuman wasn't eligible last year, but is this year, and I don't see the problem with that.

Long post but those are my thoughts.

Edit: Forgot about the one show per genre thing. Can't say I like that, should allow for 2 and maybe 3 if it has a strong enough element. I wouldn't mind if a consensus was done by voting or something as to what genre some shows are eligible for. But limiting each to 1, when they clearly cover more than 1, seems unfair.

felix · 2011-09-30, 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

1) Drama is drama. It shouldn't be combined with any other category. House of Five Leaves and Hyouge Mono are both dramas, though neither have much romance, nor are they tragedies. (HM could have tragic moments down the road; at the moment, we've only got seven episodes to work with.)

Just to clear things up, it's not a "Drama-Romance" category it's a "Drama/Romance" category. Meaning a show can be a drama or a romance or both. I suppose it would be more acceptable if instead of drama/romance we just used a umbrella term that didn't refer to a genre; then again it might come off as presumptuous, as well as cause all sorts of other issues. The idea is you can take a drama and a romance and put them on the same scale (easily) since there are a lot of values shared between them. We're not saying that's the best way it should be done, it's just one the better ways to minimize the number of categories with out removing categories some people might enjoy, so we end up with fewer; as people requested numerous times. Of course people still want fewer and yet at the same time ALL, which is contradictory, hence why the consequences of both extreme were give you, to be able to form a good idea of just what it (might) involve and pick the one you like (or hate less

).

The same principle applies to other categories such as Fantasy/Sci-Fi. Or, to give ones that weren't questioned: Sport/Hobby/Game, or Fanservice/Echii/Moe (or from last year Fantasy/Adventure). In a way it's also a bit more accessible and makes for a more exciting competition, but that's a different debate altogether.

Of course, it's all put to vote, whatever people choose is what will be used. But the versions will dictate what will be used as base, and a few choices who's only Con was "but then we'll have too many" (ie. those that are dictated directly by the version's principles). Of course any suggestions will be considered, just not in this iteration, unless Haak veto's it in. Personally all of us are/were for vote decides. We could argue for ages, if the majority wants it they'll get it. Look at the Worst Character section, you'd think after all the debates, whining and whatnot you'd have this great majority against it but currently the votes (including yours) are Keep.

Quote:

Many "mystery/horror" shows can also be regarded as "fantasies" as well as "dramas,"

No, they can't. You're using the "imaginary situation" definition for fantasy, the category in question is using the "fantastic" definition. If it were just "imaginary situation" then ANY genre would be a fantasy. It could just be called Fiction if you like. Also yes, many categories could be combined together, but we want to keep the choice simple and easy. Think of it this way, a Sci-Fi show where YOU don't give a rats ass about the science in it is no different then a fantasy (by the definition of Sci-fi you would have to have the main plot circle "the consequences of science" which hardly ever happens in anime). Similarly a Romance where you could care less about the actual romance is not that different from a drama. Also it helps filter out some shows, ie. people might be less inclined to vote some two cent romance (which lets face it pretty much every anime has it) in something like a comedy show that merely involves: boy meets girl, meets panties, kiss after 26 episodes (or as some have mentioned some shipping fest).

Again, the light shines at both ends of the tunnel; so vote or flipping a coin is pretty much the best option here. Since vote empowers the community, vote it is.

broken270 · 2011-09-30, 17:36

Movie and OVA should split since they are two separate things. OP and ED should be their separate groups as well for same reason. Please remove Worst character.

Kameruka · 2011-09-30, 18:07

Remove "worst character" dubious 'award' but add "worst anime everybody watched" and "best anime nobody watched" just like what Gamespot did every year. Actually its helpful because we can we people just DON'T want to listen to what critics said.

~~Pocari_Sweat~~ · 2011-09-30, 21:13

Voted for Version B (extended), Adding OP/ED Soundtrack category, Adding Character Design category, Adding Supporting Character category, removing Worst Character category.

I also agree with Kamekura that the "Worst anime everyone watched" and "Best anime nobody watched" should be added. It shows what AS people think what animes are overrated and underrated respectively.

Kudryavka · 2011-09-30, 22:52

I like Extended best because it offeres the most choices.

Kinda on the fence if Worst Character should stay.

OP/ED should be separate from OST choices because they often aren't really similar in composition. Op/ED are usually Pop or rock, while OSTs are usually lounge or of the barely there, soothing type.

Belial13 · 2011-10-01, 02:34

In theory you can have 1000 categories, no one is forcing anyone to vote in all of them (I for example almost never vote for romance / slice of life / drama / fanservice / sports / visual / soundtrack categories , but that does not mean i would remove all of them)

so for my needs i guess:

Minimalistic but do NOT put fantasy / sci-fi in the same category, sure sometimes they can overlap especially when a series starts out as fantasy and end up sci-fi like Utawarerumono or Scrapped Princess, but for me these are two very different categories ... you would essentially put Claymore / Berserk in the same category as GitS / Planetes witch makes no sense

And adding a Supporting Character (sometimes a supporting character is "better" then a main character) and OP/ED (because i don't listen to a soundtrack 99.9% of the time so you can remove it for all i care, but sometimes i like an anime OP/ED) seems like a good idea to me

View Poll Results: Which improvements would you like to see in the next Animesuki Choice Awards?
Like Version A "Minimalistic", but... (Answer below)	8	17.39%
Like Version B "Extended", but... (Answer below)	22	47.83%
Combine [Fantasy] with [Sci-Fi]?	7	15.22%
Combine [Romance] with [Drama]?	9	19.57%
Add an OP/ED soundtrack category?	30	65.22%
Add a [Setting] category?	12	26.09%
Separate [Visual/Animation] for [TV series]?	13	28.26%
Add a [Character Design] category?	11	23.91%
Remove [Worst Character]?	22	47.83%
Add a [Supporting Character] category?	25	54.35%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

2011-09-30, 13:28	Link #1
Haak Me, An Intellectual Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: UK Age: 33	Animesuki Choice Award Poll Hello everyone. As you may know every year we've been holding a competition called the Animesuki Choice Awards, where people can vote for the best anime airing that year. At the end of the 2010 Choice Awards we had a number of suggestions on how to improve the Awards for 2011 and after a lot of discussion on each topic we decided that it would be best to put these suggestions up for a vote (In other words, we couldn't agree on any of them). As you can see there are a lot of choices but don't be too daunted. It should only take about a few minutes at most to consider each option. As you can see it's a multiple choice poll where you can vote for more than one option and don't have to vote for every option. You simply tick the choice you'd like. We found that there are essentially two main factions within the Animesuki community when suggesting improvements for the Choice Awards. There are those that argue that there are too many categories and the number needs to be minimised and there are those who want more categories added because they believe there are certain categories that deserve to be celebrated. Here are two versions could the Choice Awards that you can choose between. Version A - Minimalistic (16) Spoiler for space: -{A1}- [Action/Adventure] -{A2}- [Fantasy/Sci-fi] -{A3}- [Mystery/Horror] -{A4}- [Comedy] -{A5}- [Drama/Romance] -{A6}- [Slice of Life] -{A7}- [Fanservice/Ecchi/Moe] -{A8}- [Sports/Game/Hobby] -{B1}- [TV series] -{B2}- [Movie/OVA] -{C1}- [Storyline/Plot] -{C2}- [Visual/Animation] -{C3}- [Soundtrack] -{C4}- [Female Character] -{C5}- [Male Character] -{C6}- [Villain/Antagonist] More or less the old format scaled down slightly (as per requests) with minor tweaks, including making a few categories accept more types of shows. Some categories removed and no new ones. Version B - Extended (28) Spoiler for space: -{A1}- [Action/Adventure] -{A2}- [Fantasy] -{A3}- [Sci-Fi] -{A4}- [Mystery/Horror] -{A5}- [Comedy] -{A6}- [Drama/Tragedy] -{A7}- [Romance] -{A8}- [Slice of Life] -{A9}- [Fanservice/Ecchi/Moe] -{A0}- [Sports/Game/Hobby] -{B1}- [TV series] -{B2}- [Movie/OVA] -{C1}- [Storyline/Plot] -{C2}- [Adaptation] -{C3}- [Original Story] -{C4}- [Setting/World] -{C5}- [Character Development] -{C6}- [Female Main Character] -{C7}- [Male Main Character] -{C8}- [Supporting Character] -{C9}- [Worst Character] -{C0}- [Antagonist] -{D1}- [TV Visual/Animation] -{D2}- [Movie/OVA Visual/Animation] -{D3}- [Action/Battle Visuals/Animation] -{D4}- [Soundtrack] -{D5}- [Opening and/or Ending Song] -{D6}- [Character Design] All the categories proposed/suggested over time. Almost double the amount of categories of the Minimalistic version. However we understand that it is not all black and white. Whilst some may prefer there to be less categories we understand that not all the changes made for the Minimalistic version would be preferable. Similarly those who advocate for more categories would not necessarily want all the categories added from the Extended version. There may even be some who support the Minimalistic idea but would still advocate the inclusion of certain new categories. This is why the following choices have also been included in the poll, since this will allow us to gain a better idea of what would be preferred in the next Choice Awards: Spoiler for space: Combine [Fantasy] with [Sci-Fi]? Combine [Romance] with [Drama]? Add an OP/ED soundtrack category? Add a [Setting] category? Separate [Visual/Animation] for TV series? Add a [Character Design] category? Add Supporting Character categories? Remove [Worst Character]? Support the Status Quo. It is important that you vote for the ones you would prefer, regardless of which Version you chose. This is important since due to the poll format not voting for an option effectively counts as voting against it . For example, if many people were to vote for the Extended version but forget to vote for Adding a [Setting] category, this could lead to the assumption that those who would like the Extended version do not want a Setting category. To help you decide we have provided a summary of the positions put forward in our discussions on each of the choices, group into four topics. The Status Quo A vote for “Support the Status Quo” means that you would like the categories to be exactly the same as how they were in the 2010 Choice Awards. Unfortunately I wasn't able to put this choice in the poll due to restrictions so please post to indicate this option. Proposed changes to Sci-fi /Fantasy and Drama section: Spoiler for space: The idea for combining Fantasy with Science Fiction is that there is often an overlap of certain elements in both genres. Some even contend that Science Fiction is a subsection of Fantasy. The motion against asserts that hard Science Fiction shows at least are distinct from Fantasy and that there have so far been no overlaps in the nominations in Fantasy and Science Fiction in the last four years. One of the main complaints has been the introduction of the Drama category which some have argued is unnecessary (although the reason it was introduced for the 2010 Awards in the first place was due to the suggestions put forward). We have come to two options. In the Minimalistic version, Drama has been combined with Romance. The argument for combining Romance and Drama is that some believe Romance to be a sub genre of Drama. Some however, contend Romance is too different to many Dramas. In the Extended version, “Tragedy” has been added to Drama. The argument is that this will make the Drama category more distinct and therefore more justifiable as a separate category. These are the choices you can choose (not voting for either counts a vote against them): Combine [Fantasy] with [Sci-Fi]? Combine [Romance] with [Drama]? Proposed changes to the Production Elements section Spoiler for space: These are the following changes in the Extended Version 1: Split Storyline into Best Anime Original Story and Best Adaptation (from LN, manga, VN, whatever). 2: Split Visual/Animation into Overall Best Visual/Animation and Best Action/Fight Scene Animation The argument for splitting best Storyline into Best Storyline, Best Anime Original and Best Adaptation is that Anime Originals should be given an opportunity to compete with each other. Others contend that separating the two will have little/no meaning for those who rarely/don't read manga and that this will be another unnecessary addition that can lead to too many categories. There is also a potential for abuse with the Best Adaption as it lead to lots people voting for an anime without even knowing what the original source is like. The argument for splitting Visual/Animation into Overall Best Visual/Animation and Best Action/Fight Scene Animation is that there is a significant section of the community that prefers and judges animation based on fight scenes and so non-action stories that have amazing animation are underrepresented. Others contend that this is myth since previous winner shows that half the winners for this category were non action anime and the two that were is an anime that is considered to have great art and animation regardless of its fight scenes. They also argue that it is already difficult to judge Visual/Animation and that this could complicate things. They also argue that “Best Action/Fight Scene Animation” is already a criterion used to judge Best Action/Fighting anime. They also believe that it could be another unnecessary addition that can lead to too many categories. Here are the following changes to vote for: 1: Split Soundtrack into Best Opening/Ending (must specify the specific ED/OP) and Best BGM 2: Add a Best Setting Design category 3: Split Visual/Animation with separate categories for TV and Movies/OVAs 4: Add a Best Character Design (Entire Cast) category The argument for splitting Soundtrack into Best OP/ED theme and Best BGM is that OP/ED themes are distinct from BGM and that some animes will have poor BGM's but notable OP/ED themes that are worth celebrating. Others contend that it could be another unnecessary addition that can lead to too many categories. The argument for adding a Best Setting/World category is that this can be a distinct element in anime that can even determine whether an anime is enjoyable or not, and that there is no other established category that celebrates this. Others contend that it could be difficult to define what a setting is and that it could be another unnecessary addition that can lead to too many categories. The argument for splitting Visual/Animation with separate categories for TV series and Movies/OVA's is that it is unfair for TV series, with their lower production values to compete with Movies/OVA's which have a clear advantage. Others contend that TV series can still have better art than many Movies and thus can win the category. They also believe that it could be another unnecessary addition that can lead to too many categories. The argument for adding a Best Character Design category is…because it sounds a like a good idea. Others contend that this should fall under Visual/Animation on the basis of art and that it could be another unnecessary addition that can lead to too many categories. Proposed changes to the Individual Character section Spoiler for space: These are the following changes and what you can vote for. 1: Split Best Male/Female Character into Best Male/Female Lead and Best Male/Female Supporting Character. 2: Remove Worst Character The argument for these categories is that these are distinct elements in a story worth celebrating. Others contend that these are all unnecessary additions that can lead to too many categories. The idea behind removing Worst Character section altogether is that there is a general consensus that voting for a worst character could lead to “bashing” said character which is against purpose of these Awards, which is to celebrate anime and not hate on them. Thank you for your time and feel free to discuss any of the topics here. If there are any other suggestions you’d like to make then please feel free to make them. Previous Winners: 2010 Winners 2009 Winners 2008 Winners 2007 Winners __________________ MAL \| AnimeSuki Choice Awards 2020 Winners Last edited by Haak; 2011-09-30 at 13:38.

2011-09-30, 14:52	Link #3
Kyuu =^^= Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: 42° 10' N (Latitude) 87° 33' W (Longitude) Age: 45	Let's go Mimimalistic, with a few addons. (Mispelling done on purpose) :3 Fewer the categories. Having 28 categories is way too much. Why else are the real award shows ever becoming more irrelevant? The more pressure to get certain winners. Greater chance of butthurt. Oh, and Keep "Worst Character". __________________ Japanese Mahjong Group \| Currently Watching List \| Click on this - I dare you.

2011-09-30, 15:29	Link #5
SeijiSensei AS Oji-kun Join Date: Nov 2006 Age: 74	Just a few quick comments. 1) Drama is drama. It shouldn't be combined with any other category. House of Five Leaves and Hyouge Mono are both dramas, though neither have much romance, nor are they tragedies. (HM could have tragic moments down the road; at the moment, we've only got seven episodes to work with.) 2) I didn't see the option for having separate "best adaptation" and "best original" productions in the poll. I vote for having both. There are quite a few original productions this year, though we'll need to be careful to make sure shows are classified correctly. 3) I also think OP/ED songs need to be treated separately from scores. I'll be nominating the score for Hyouge Mono, but the (current) OP isn't much to write home about. (The original OP may deserve a nomination, but it was pulled by NHK after episode four when one of the performers was arrested for marijuana possession.) 4) I'm very mixed about merging fantasy and science-fiction. The best argument in favor of a merger is the small number of shows in these categories. 5) I will strongly reiterate my position that people be prohibited from nominating a show in more than one genre category. That just leads to the most popular shows dominating in multiple categories. A single show should be eligible for nomination in one genre category and one of the "best of" categories, but that's it. (Obviously the same show can appear in one or more production categories as well.) 6) I voted for the "supporting" categories, though they're probably the ones that should be axed first. The "worst character" category is useless and should be dumped. The biggest issue that hasn't been addressed is the time period involved. We've used calendar years in the past, which has proven problematic when considering two-cour shows that premiere in the fall. Some have suggested starting with the fall and extending through the next summer, following the US model of a television year. I had a discussion about anime "seasons" over on ANN not long ago, and one contributor thought that it made more sense to follow the Japanese school year which begins in the spring. That would mean waiting until April to begin the "2011" Awards process. For this transition year, we'd need to include shows that were released over the 15-month period starting on 1/1/2011 and ending on 3/31/2012. After that we'd just run from April to April. Here are some data for your consideration: These are taken from AniDB (2010 data), including only non-hentai television series with "synonyms" excluded. I re-counted April, 2011, three times to convince myself there were really fifty new series released that month. April to April makes quite a bit of sense given these data. Kudos to you for carrying on this fine tradition, Haak! __________________ Taking Anime Seriously - Politics by the Numbers - Sports by the Numbers - MAL List - Avatars - Images Last edited by SeijiSensei; 2011-09-30 at 16:17.

2011-09-30, 15:49	Link #8
Flower Blooming on the mountain Join Date: May 2010 Location: Deep in their roots, all flowers keep the light....	Most of the ideas thus far I agree with, esp as expressed by Seiji: I like the idea of a OP/ED section separate from the OST/score for a series. I would also prefer a minimalistic collection of categories. I would like to see the "Worst Character" category removed. But I would vote against merging fantasy and sci fi. To me as well they are two very separate categories. **** All that being said, there's no reason we can't change things next year if something does not work out very well. __________________

2011-09-30, 13:44	Link #2
Sheba RUN, YOU FOOLS! Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost Age: 44	My "french" need to clearly seperate "genres" is heavily against the move to merge sci-fi with fantasy. When I say sci-fi, I think Deus EX, Macross or steins;gate. When I say fantasy, I think Conan the Barbarian, Tolkien, Moorcock and A Song of Ice and Fire. And yeah, remove "Worst Character". We have enough "hate" threads as it is.

2011-09-30, 15:15	Link #4
Kaioshin Sama Banned Join Date: May 2004 Location: Neither Here nor There Age: 39	I'd say minimalistic, but my main problem with that is that it merges several genres that aren't necessarily inseparable like drama/romance and Sci-Fi/Fantasy and yet keeps incredibly vague pseudo-genres like "slice of life" as their own seperate entity for some reason. As such I'd have to pick extended just because it handles each category a little better a little better in my eyes.

2011-09-30, 16:45	Link #13
SeijiSensei AS Oji-kun Join Date: Nov 2006 Age: 74	Well, let's take the obvious contender for big winner in this year's Awards, Madoka Magica. How many genre categories should that qualify for? -{A1}- [Action/Adventure] - maybe -{A2}- [Fantasy] - yes -{A3}- [Sci-Fi] - maybe -{A4}- [Mystery/Horror] - yes -{A5}- [Comedy] - no -{A6}- [Drama/Tragedy] - yes -{A7}- [Romance] - no (yuri shippers be damned) -{A8}- [Slice of Life] - no -{A9}- [Fanservice/Ecchi/Moe] - maybe -{A0}- [Sports/Game/Hobby] - no Many "mystery/horror" shows can also be regarded as "fantasies" as well as "dramas," and it's not hard to conceive of many of them falling into "action/adventure" as well. One solution to this is to impose genre categories before the nominating process by executive fiat. We'd provide the list of eligible shows categorized by genres. That still lets people nominate their favorites, but would provide more structure than we have now. As for who should exert this fiat, perhaps the moderators, or maybe Haak himself since he seems up for the task of carrying this on. If that smacks too much of fascism, then I submit that my original suggestion of one genre nomination per show provides a democratic method with reasonable structure. Two is the absolute upper limit in my mind. __________________ Taking Anime Seriously - Politics by the Numbers - Sports by the Numbers - MAL List - Avatars - Images

2011-09-30, 17:28	Link #14
Sphire Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: UK	Let's see, I think I voted for: Minimalistic, combine fantasy with sci-fi, add an OP/ED soundtrack, seperate visual animation for TV series, remove worst character, and add supporting character. So in truth, my number of preferred categories would fall in between minimalistic and extended. I think the extended one given has way too many categories. I think sci-fi can be merged with fantasy, mostly because I don't think there are many shows for each specifically. Although I'm not adverse to separating them. I do question why action/adventure aren't separated? That way you can separate which shows have purely good action moments, and which have purely good adventure moments. If a show happens to have both, then it can run in both. Case in point, last year I felt Katanagatari was great with its adventure elements, but not so much with its action elements. Plus I think each genre has a good deal of shows too. As an example for this year, PMMM might be nominated for its action elements, but it has no adventure element to it. Heck adventure would merge better with fantasy I feel. I vote for separating drama from romance too. In fact, I think romance shouldn't be considered a genre at all, simply because it overlaps with so many other genres. I'd prefer a 'best romance portrayal in anime' sort of thing, that way viewers will see that regardless of genre, which show had the best romance/s in it. I don't think you should limit drama to tragedies either. An OP/ED choice would be nice. Even separating OPs and EDs would be good to me. BGM on the other hand, do people really take notice? Whats to stop that from being a popularity vote, I don't tend to notice BGMs myself. I don't care for a action/battle animation category, a general one should be fine. At first I thought you meant a 'best fight scene of the year' or something, which kinda sounds cool and feeds the anime geek in me. With others like 'best shock/surprise of the year' and 'best dialogue/speech of the year' and 'best gag of the year' and 'most tear-jerking moment of the year' and others culminating in 'best moment of the year' sorta thing. But again, that may be too many categories, and I might be the only one who would like those, heh. Plus, some spoilers too almost guaranteed. For storyline, I don't see a reason to separate original from adaptations. Just put a notice beside each show so people know if anything. And no worse character please. Pointless category is pointless. As for the calender thing, I have no issue with just using shows that ended in 2011. Going to April 2012, you'd then be including 1-cour winter shows, meaning it'll be more a best of 2011/2012 thing. Plus you lose 2-cour winter shows anyway that get pushed onto 2012/2013 awards (or are there none of those?), so there's always a lost. Bakuman wasn't eligible last year, but is this year, and I don't see the problem with that. Long post but those are my thoughts. Edit: Forgot about the one show per genre thing. Can't say I like that, should allow for 2 and maybe 3 if it has a strong enough element. I wouldn't mind if a consensus was done by voting or something as to what genre some shows are eligible for. But limiting each to 1, when they clearly cover more than 1, seems unfair. __________________ ---MAL // Dark Souls Vids // FF XIII-2 Vids // Tales Of Xillia Hard Playthrough School Rumble Forever!

2011-09-30, 17:36	Link #16
broken270 Defying gravity Join Date: Jul 2010	Movie and OVA should split since they are two separate things. OP and ED should be their separate groups as well for same reason. Please remove Worst character.

2011-09-30, 18:07	Link #17
Kameruka Hen-Tie Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Hen-Tie pen	Remove "worst character" dubious 'award' but add "worst anime everybody watched" and "best anime nobody watched" just like what Gamespot did every year. Actually its helpful because we can we people just DON'T want to listen to what critics said.

2011-09-30, 21:13	Link #18
~~Pocari_Sweat~~ <em style="color:#808080;">Disabled By Request</em> Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Australia	Voted for Version B (extended), Adding OP/ED Soundtrack category, Adding Character Design category, Adding Supporting Character category, removing Worst Character category. I also agree with Kamekura that the "Worst anime everyone watched" and "Best anime nobody watched" should be added. It shows what AS people think what animes are overrated and underrated respectively.

2011-09-30, 22:52	Link #19
Kudryavka Senior Member Join Date: May 2009	I like Extended best because it offeres the most choices. Kinda on the fence if Worst Character should stay. OP/ED should be separate from OST choices because they often aren't really similar in composition. Op/ED are usually Pop or rock, while OSTs are usually lounge or of the barely there, soothing type.

2011-10-01, 02:34	Link #20
Belial13 Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Hell	In theory you can have 1000 categories, no one is forcing anyone to vote in all of them (I for example almost never vote for romance / slice of life / drama / fanservice / sports / visual / soundtrack categories , but that does not mean i would remove all of them) so for my needs i guess: Minimalistic but do NOT put fantasy / sci-fi in the same category, sure sometimes they can overlap especially when a series starts out as fantasy and end up sci-fi like Utawarerumono or Scrapped Princess, but for me these are two very different categories ... you would essentially put Claymore / Berserk in the same category as GitS / Planetes witch makes no sense And adding a Supporting Character (sometimes a supporting character is "better" then a main character) and OP/ED (because i don't listen to a soundtrack 99.9% of the time so you can remove it for all i care, but sometimes i like an anime OP/ED) seems like a good idea to me