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Old 2016-07-21, 11:34   Link #1961
yulinard
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Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
Option 3; we maintain good peaceful relations, Show Iran how its in their own best interests to NOT rock the boat, and avoid war completely. Really the Iran deal has shown the Iran can achieve more with diplomacy that it can with threats of force. Moderate voices are actually growing stronger in Iran
No. You are allied with the Sunnis. having peaceful relation with the Iran is impossible.
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Old 2016-07-21, 11:53   Link #1962
ganbaru
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Originally Posted by yulinard View Post
No. You are allied with the Sunnis. having peaceful relation with the Iran is impossible.
The issue might be more with the Saudi than the Sunni in general.
Honestly, I wouldn't see it as a bad move if the US distancied themselves from Saudi Arabia, got closer to Iran while keeping good relation with more moderate actors in the region like Lebanon and Jordan.

Of course neither Hilary nor Trump would go this way, even if it was the best thing to do.
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Old 2016-07-21, 12:21   Link #1963
Sugetsu
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I just watched the Trump and Pence interview and it was a total disaster. Everyone please do yourself a favor and watch it. Then ask yourself, if you are trump supporter, why do I like this man? If there is any ounce of logic and reason left in you, you will come to finally see that this guy is not mentally suited to be president. If you still support him I have no words for you.

I don't want to mince words here but the fact that Trump has made it this far shows why GW Bush was elected twice.

Here is a small appetizer to entice you to go watch it.
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Old 2016-07-21, 12:37   Link #1964
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Originally Posted by yulinard View Post
No. You are allied with the Sunnis. having peaceful relation with the Iran is impossible.
and that is the question. Why they heck is west so close to the sunni (saudi) when it the terrorist problem started with the Saudis and their brand of Islam.
Al Quadi - Sunni
ISIS - Sunni
9/11 Hijackers - All Saudi

When was last time a Shite blew himself up in Europe?
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Old 2016-07-21, 13:59   Link #1965
yulinard
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Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
and that is the question. Why they heck is west so close to the sunni (saudi) when it the terrorist problem started with the Saudis and their brand of Islam.
Al Quadi - Sunni
ISIS - Sunni
9/11 Hijackers - All Saudi

When was last time a Shite blew himself up in Europe?
I remember back then when I read in Faith Freedom forum about how Islamic Theocracy is at their end because Oil is all they have to offer.

Now everything is reversed because until last year I dont know the existence of regressivism in western leftist political party. Now everything looks grim since they all in power and are prostrating to the Sunnis and giving everything they want. And now they have access not only oil but also entire leftist party who held power in Europe.
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Old 2016-07-21, 14:59   Link #1966
KiraYamatoFan
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Originally Posted by yulinard View Post
No. You are allied with the Sunnis. having peaceful relation with the Iran is impossible.
No one ever said the US cannot change allies by dropping one country in order to reach that country's archrival instead. For a long time, Pakistan was an ally. However, things soured since the incident with the attack against OBL, and the US have been extending their relationship with India since.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
The issue might be more with the Saudi than the Sunni in general.
Honestly, I wouldn't see it as a bad move if the US distancied themselves from Saudi Arabia, got closer to Iran while keeping good relation with more moderate actors in the region like Lebanon and Jordan.
This. I think it will have to come down to that one day. The Saudi elite and radicals can all go drown themselves in their oil as far as I'm concerned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugetsu View Post
I just watched the Trump and Pence interview and it was a total disaster. Everyone please do yourself a favor and watch it. Then ask yourself, if you are trump supporter, why do I like this man? If there is any ounce of logic and reason left in you, you will come to finally see that this guy is not mentally suited to be president. If you still support him I have no words for you.

I don't want to mince words here but the fact that Trump has made it this far shows why GW Bush was elected twice.

Here is a small appetizer to entice you to go watch it.
You can re-name the interview as "Dumb and Dumber 3". Trump looks like an idiot who got his brain fried because of too much booze and drugs for way too long (cue Ozzy Osborne). I can't wait to see him nailed and crucified during the presidential debates when logic counts more than anything.

You're right on the G.W. Bush part. It's so horrible that so many people can't take a more serious look about who is even mentally fit to be the person who rules the country.

For the sake of not overloading the page with Youtube clips, watch this as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-P2c7UYMBRE

Last edited by KiraYamatoFan; 2016-07-21 at 15:10.
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Old 2016-07-21, 15:37   Link #1967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
For a long time, Pakistan was an ally. However, things soured since the incident with the attack against OBL, and the US have been extending their relationship with India since.


Oh you mean that part when Pakistani authorities have been hiding OBL for years right under the CIA's nose while going "We are your allies! Honest!"?
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Old 2016-07-21, 15:49   Link #1968
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Oh you mean that part when Pakistani authorities have been hiding OBL for years right under the CIA's nose while going "We are your allies! Honest!"?
What do you think? That kind of situation hurts diplomatic relations very badly, and it still leaves a mark as of today. AFAIK, diplomatic relations have increased between the US and India in the last half of a decade; that's not something you would have seen at the peak of the US/Pakistan relations in the past.

My point here is that if Saudi Arabia does something that obviously hurts its relations with the US that much, it wouldn't be long before the State Department shifts its efforts to build better relations with Iran while dropping Saudi Arabia into the dust.
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Old 2016-07-21, 16:13   Link #1969
Sugetsu
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Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post

You can re-name the interview as "Dumb and Dumber 3". Trump looks like an idiot who got his brain fried because of too much booze and drugs for way too long (cue Ozzy Osborne). I can't wait to see him nailed and crucified during the presidential debates when logic counts more than anything.

You're right on the G.W. Bush part. It's so horrible that so many people can't take a more serious look about who is even mentally fit to be the person who rules the country.

For the sake of not overloading the page with Youtube clips, watch this as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-P2c7UYMBRE
I just watched the clip. That analysis was spot on. Trump was fighting against the establishment, money in politics and the war in Iraq. Now he has done a 180 on all those uses and simply goes "I don't care!" when asked about his running mate supporting the war on Iraq.
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Old 2016-07-21, 17:02   Link #1970
ganbaru
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Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
My point here is that if Saudi Arabia does something that obviously hurts its relations with the US that much, it wouldn't be long before the State Department shifts its efforts to build better relations with Iran while dropping Saudi Arabia into the dust.
It would be hard to make something worse than what they did already, there always someone to cover their arses. Probably to many money link between the Saudi and Washington, commercial or not.
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Old 2016-07-21, 17:48   Link #1971
Sheba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
What do you think? That kind of situation hurts diplomatic relations very badly, and it still leaves a mark as of today. AFAIK, diplomatic relations have increased between the US and India in the last half of a decade; that's not something you would have seen at the peak of the US/Pakistan relations in the past.

My point here is that if Saudi Arabia does something that obviously hurts its relations with the US that much, it wouldn't be long before the State Department shifts its efforts to build better relations with Iran while dropping Saudi Arabia into the dust.
I fucking hope we drop Turkey some day too, first because of their double deal with ISIS, then with Erdogan's shenanigans. Fucking false allies scum. They should have weighted Dubya's words when he said "you're with us or against us."
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Old 2016-07-21, 22:51   Link #1972
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This is probably Trump's greatest moment as a nominee. It dragged excessively (the first half hour or so was essentially the same 8 minute sound bite repeated at least 3 times), was filled with brimstone and desperation, but damn was it a rhetorical triumph for Trump - especially considering most of his speeches feel as if they were written by a 3rd grader. It was not a fun speech, but it was comanding and confident; I was heavily reminded of Nixon in his heyday.

That being said Ivanka really hit it out of the park. I heavily doubt much of what she said, but damn if she didn't make me think that Trump had an actual human side.
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Old 2016-07-21, 23:26   Link #1973
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That was a very long speech indeed. The sad part is that it the only thing it did was to paint a dark future where everything is blamed on foreign threats; illegal immigrants are killers and how the US needs to cut itself off from the rest of the world. I can see clearly how this grim picture is red meat for his base, but time will tell if the rest of the country will give into the fear mongering.

Meanwhile, back stage at the RNC, Alex Jones walks in uninvited into the Young Turks set and chaos ensues. This is a symbolic picture of the growing rift between progressives and conservatives in this country.

https://youtu.be/1sLXsyqJaRk
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Old 2016-07-21, 23:36   Link #1974
yulinard
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Originally Posted by Sugetsu View Post
T
Meanwhile, back stage at the RNC, Alex Jones walks in uninvited into the Young Turks set and chaos ensues. This is a symbolic picture of the growing rift between progressives and conservatives in this country.

https://youtu.be/1sLXsyqJaRk
You mean "Regressive"? They are hardly progressive.
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Old 2016-07-21, 23:44   Link #1975
Sugetsu
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You mean "Regressive"? They are hardly progressive.
I keep hearing this "regressive" punch line from all conservatives. What does that entail to you? What is a regressive to you? In any case, regardless of subjective value there is a growing rift that has only gotten wider over the last 8 years.
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Old 2016-07-21, 23:46   Link #1976
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Originally Posted by Sugetsu View Post
That was a very long speech indeed. The sad part is that it the only thing it did was to paint a dark future where everything is blamed on foreign threats; illegal immigrants are killers and how the US needs to cut itself off from the rest of the world. I can see clearly how this grim picture is red meat for his base, but time will tell if the rest of the country will give into the fear mongering.

Meanwhile, back stage at the RNC, Alex Jones walks in uninvited into the Young Turks set and chaos ensues. This is a symbolic picture of the growing rift between progressives and conservatives in this country.

https://youtu.be/1sLXsyqJaRk
A number of media, both liberals and conservatives, have blasted the speech for being a load of hogwash that is void of any substance whatsoever. Everything I read about it is just a sackload of vomit of the most putrid kind. How can a presidential campaign be built on so much negativity and yet without any form of substance, that's beyond me.

I'm also disgusted at the way to blame all on foreign elements. Anyone in 2016 who preaches for any kind of crap should get a dildo stuck where the sun doesn't shine. I'll tell you this: any political party that doesn't offer a clear idea of what they would do if elected would finish at least third in the polls and in the election anywhere in Canada, federal or provincial.

Last but not least, Alex Jones is one of the lowest "human beings" on this Earth.

edit: I read something from Erick Erickson's Twitter that says a lot, and I dunno if I should laugh or cry.

Quote:
Trump’s speech sounded better in the original German.
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Old 2016-07-22, 01:03   Link #1977
monir
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
This is probably Trump's greatest moment as a nominee. It dragged excessively (the first half hour or so was essentially the same 8 minute sound bite repeated at least 3 times), was filled with brimstone and desperation, but damn was it a rhetorical triumph for Trump - especially considering most of his speeches feel as if they were written by a 3rd grader. It was not a fun speech, but it was comanding and confident; I was heavily reminded of Nixon in his heyday.

That being said Ivanka really hit it out of the park. I heavily doubt much of what she said, but damn if she didn't make me think that Trump had an actual human side.
That was a scary speech that portrays a very bleak America. I can only assume how many Republican thought about putting their guns into the roof of their mouth and pull the trigger before the endless things that scare them come and get them. I think this speech will hurt him with many potential Trump voters. Fear can be a good political tool but too much usage of fear based rhetoric can also act as a deterrent.

I didn't put much weight on Ivanka's speech either for the mere fact she's talking about her dad. There aren't many children who will speak ill of their parents.
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Old 2016-07-22, 01:28   Link #1978
yulinard
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I keep hearing this "regressive" punch line from all conservatives. What does that entail to you? What is a regressive to you? In any case, regardless of subjective value there is a growing rift that has only gotten wider over the last 8 years.
I don't think being openly racist toward white, openly lied about police shooting and became terrorist apologist can be called progressive.

This 8 years have been hell for those who try to secularize muslim world. Its like a century worth of progress thrown out of window.
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Old 2016-07-22, 01:33   Link #1979
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Originally Posted by yulinard View Post
I don't think being openly racist toward white, openly lied about police shooting and became terrorist apologist can be called progressive.

This 8 years have been hell for those who try to secularize muslim world. Its like a century worth of progress thrown out of window.


Thanks dude! Good night.
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Old 2016-07-22, 01:40   Link #1980
ganbaru
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Originally Posted by yulinard View Post
This 8 years have been hell for those who try to secularize muslim world. Its like a century worth of progress thrown out of window.
The core of the issues started well before 8 years ago, and were helped by politics nowhere progressive (Obama can hardly be called a progressif in foreing policies, more like a soft imperialist) and blaming them for the current mess would be stupid at best.
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Last edited by ganbaru; 2016-07-22 at 02:38.
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