US Elections 2016 Part II: The Debates & General Election

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by Xero8420

Ask yourself: Why did we have Brexit? Why there was an unsuccessful coup against Erdogan in Turkey? Why do we got defiant politicians like Nigel Farage who was behind Brexit and Rodrigo Duerte who rebel against America? Why do we got other more European opposition politicians criticizing the US establishment that made the Western people feeling hopeless that they couldn't see their own future because of emigration crisis and terror attack in Europe as the result of widespread terrorism in Syria, Libya, Egypt & Yemen?

It's clear that the current global affair is clear at the wrong direction. It is so bad that change had to be done and re-evaluate themselves.

Well, let's see if going demagogue is the right way. The last time the world tried this they got guys like Mussolini, Hitler, Franco and a revolving door of jingoistic and militaristic prime ministers in Japan. At least I have faith that the excesses in the 1930s and 1940s will prevent the worst things of that time to repeat itself.

Why there was an unsuccessful coup against Erdogan in Turkey?

This literally does not belong in the same sentence as the others.

[blitz1/2]

This needs an eroge.

[Kafriel]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

Well said. Let's see what these next 4 years will be like.

Let's wait and see for how long the newly elected president can keep his chair steady. I'm not in favor of anyone, but given Trump's...style, I'm expecting a lot of promises, a big boom (in a good way) and about 2 years in, an even bigger boom (bubbles bursting, nukes, who knows?).

Best of luck to you, America.

[LoveYouSaber]

Personally am really concerned with climate change now that Trump is the US president. A poster earlier said a study was needed to find out what really causes climate change and what's the best way to deal with it. We are actually way pass that point to wait several more years for a study.

And honestly as a person not in the US, I have no idea why people would vote for Trump. People fuss about Hillary's emails. Surely it's a much more minor thing compared to voting for a guy who has zero policies and only knows putting the adjective "great" in every sentence he makes?

[Haak]

Originally Posted by blitz1/2

This needs an eroge.

That's your answer to everything.

[Xero8420]

Climate change is ultimately a nature process due to change in orbital axis that is naturally reversible that has been proven centuries ago. Stop wasting time and money, while it's better to make reassessment to yourself first before others. Instead, why not collaborate with Russia, Europe and Japan in space technology development? It's much better that way if people fully achieve spaceflight much earlier than wasting money on something that was already naturally proven long time ago.

[MeoTwister5]

Try imagining if Hillary was this. Or Trump if you're into that sort of thing.

[James Rye]

So lemme get this straight:

Trump gets less votes than Obama did in 2008 and even 2012 and right now he got less votes than Clinto does as well, yet he became president? And if I count the numbers right then MORE than half of
the 219 million American voters did not go vote?

Wow.

I remember reading an article a couple weeks before where the author said that Trump got a chance to become Potus if at least half of the voters would not go vote and if Hillary does not get the young voters support due the Bernie issue. And the author also wrote that this was the plan of Trump, to hold a dirty as possible election to make people not want to go voting, to not get to a fact discussion level with Clinton as seen with the three debates and to hope that Clinton won't get the young voters as much as she herself believe she would.
Looks like the plan went just well.

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by James Rye

Trump gets less votes than Obama did in 2008 and even 2012 and right now he got less votes than Clinto does as well, yet he became president?

Welcome to the electoral system. George W. Bush became president in 2000 even though he had 0.5% less votes than Al Gore. Though this time the difference in electoral votes (Bush had five more than Gore, basically the difference of New Hampshire) is quite a bit bigger.

And if I count the numbers right then MORE than half of
the 219 million American voters did not go vote?

No, it will be more than 50%. Right now Clinton and Trump already combine more than 120 million votes.

[Xero8420]

Originally Posted by LoveYouSaber

And honestly as a person not in the US, I have no idea why people would vote for Trump. People fuss about Hillary's emails. Surely it's a much more minor thing compared to voting for a guy who has zero policies and only knows putting the adjective "great" in every sentence he makes?

Talk with the people over there, cause you don't seems to know better what was really went on. And if you wanna blame about the emails; blame James O'Keefe of Project Veritas, WikiLeak, Anthony Wiener and FBI director James Comey.

[GreyZone]

This is the second time this happens. In 2008 Clinton won the popular vote against Obama in the primaries but lost because her support was focused on fewer states. Now the same happened again in 2016 in the general election.

In other words: Clinton could have probably become president in almost any other country, but ironically she was born into the one country that wouldn't let her. Now I almost feel sorry for her. Almost.



So remember this when you complain about Clinton not becoming president despite winning the popular vote: If it really was like that, then Obama should have never been president either and should have been replaced by Clinton back in 2008.

[Xero8420]

Haters gonna hate

[james0246]

I can't say I like the results, but the part of me that was a poly sci minor is quite fascinated by the them and the possibilities they might lead too...though the part of me that is a film theorist/critic can't help but compare my fascination to the growing sense of unease found in a thiller or horror movie.... Ultimately this election will not really affect me in any real world way (unless Trump starts WWIII) - I'm a well off white male, but damn if thus doesn't hurt emotionally, ethically, and it strikes at what little pride I have as an American.

Oh well, here is hoping Trump is secretly good, or he at least has the ability to finally drive this recent ultra conservative movement into the dirt.

[Tempester]

Originally Posted by Haak

They don't want to be stereotyped as misogynist and racist so they vote for a candidate that's outrageously misogynist and racist? Makes sense.

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

What's the point of not wanting to be stereotyped when they vote for someone who matches the worst stereotype(s)? I don't call that "fighting back"; I call that "being stupid".

People aren't rational. It's the same reason why feminism and racial interest groups have their bad eggs which try to make out white males as the devil. Similarly, people who are dissatisfied with the current political and social system will vote for a clown like Trump who is blatantly extremist just because they have the fleeting hope that he might tear it down. Many people who are dissatisfied with certain unjustices will take the other extreme in the political sphere, all of this stemming down to a poisonous "us vs. them" mentality.

Originally Posted by Altima of the Gates

Only thing I had to say to any Trump voter is, "I doubt he is gonna be these magical band aid you think he is or beneficial in any way, so you probably shouldn't vote for him" and I know plenty of people who were the same. Calling radical leftism for all Hilary supporters is about as much hyperbole as someone who says all Trump supporters are the followers of the antichrist.

I don't see anyone here doing that.

[Kanon]

Trump being elected President was the very first news I read when I woke up this morning. I had to pinch myself to make sure I wasn't still sleeping. Unfortunately, it was reality.

It's both fascinating and frightening that a man like him managed to become the President of the most powerful nation in the world. I can't remember how many times I read an article stating that the latest one of his numerous blunders had just cost him the election, and yet, in spite of it all, he still won.

I feel bad for Obama. Trump is going to undo everything he's worked so hard for during his two terms.

[Prongs]

Congratz for you win mr Trump

Trump's first day at the Oval Office after being elected President.

First briefing by the CIA, Pentagon, FBI:

Trump: We must destroy ISIS immediately. No delays.

CIA: We cannot do that, sir. We created them along with Turkey, Saudi, Qatar and others.

Trump: The Democrats created them.

CIA: We created ISIS, sir. You need them or else you would lose funding from the natural gas lobby.

Trump: Stop funding Pakistan. Let India deal with them.

CIA: We can't do that.

Trump: Why is that?

CIA: India will cut Balochistan out of Pak.

Trump: I don't care.

CIA: India will have peace in Kashmir. They will stop buying our weapons. They will become a superpower. We have to fund Pakistan to keep India busy in Kashmir.

Trump: But you have to destroy the Taliban.

CIA: Sir, we can't do that. We created the Taliban to keep Russia in check during the 80s. Now they are keeping Pakistan busy and away from their nukes.

Trump: We have to destroy terror sponsoring regimes in the Middle East. Let us start with the Saudis.

Pentagon: Sir, we can't do that. We created those regimes because we wanted their oil. We can't have democracy there, otherwise their people will get that oil - and we cannot let their people own it.

Trump: Then, let us invade Iran.

Pentagon: We cannot do that either, sir.

Trump: Why not?

CIA: We are talking to them, sir.

Trump: What? Why?

CIA: We want our Stealth Drones back. If we attack them, Russia will obliterate us as they did to our buddy ISIS in Syria. Besides we need Iran to keep Israel in check.

Trump: Then let us invade Iraq again.

CIA: Sir, our friends (ISIS) are already occupying 1/3rd of Iraq.

Trump: Why not the whole of Iraq?

CIA: We need the Shi'ite govt of Iraq to keep ISIS in check.

Trump: I am banning Muslims from entering US.

FBI: We can't do that.

Trump: Why not?

FBI: Then our own population will become fearless.

Trump: I am deporting all illegal immigrants to south of the border.

Border patrol: You can't do that, sir.

Trump: Why not?

Border patrol: If they're gone, who will build the wall?

Trump: I am banning H1B visas.

USCIS: You cannot do that.

Trump: Why?

Chief of Staff: If you do so, we'll have to outsource White House operations to Bangalore. Which is in India.

Trump (sweating profusely by now): What the hell should I do as President???

CIA: Enjoy the White House, sir! We will take care of the rest!

[James Rye]

So I just read Trump won with less votes than Romney had in 2012. The lulz.

Thanks to the Great Decider Chief Justice John Roberts and his execution of the Voting Rights Act with Shelby County, voter turnout was down by around 7 million and voter suppression in North Carolina probably handed it to Trump.

I just found that comment in another forum. Is that true?

[TinyRedLeaf]

Not too long ago, I got into an argument about how it's dangerous to assume that logic should always trump (yes, pun intended) emotions, that facts should always speak louder than our feelings about crucial issues.

Well, this article aptly illustrates why there's no such thing as pure, fact-based logic, as far as human decision-making is concerned.

We are creatures of emotion, and all the choices we make — be it practical or moral — will always be based fundamentally on what we believe to be right or wrong.

In other words, facts won't mean anything, unless we feel they do.

We just saw what voters do when they feel screwed; here's the economic theory of why they do it

By James Allworth

One of the most interesting experiments in economics is known as the ultimatum game. It deftly gets at a fundamental truth of human nature  —  about how our deep emotional programming cause us to do things that, when viewed through the lens of rationality, just don't make sense.

The game itself involves two players. The first player receives a sum of money, and gets to propose how to divide it between the two players. The second player can do only one thing: accept or reject the proposal. If the second player accepts, then the money is divided between the two players as proposed.

But if the second player rejects the proposal, then neither player gets anything.

Approaching the game from a rational economic perspective, the second player should accept any proposal that involves an offer of anything  —  because the alternative, of course, is to receive nothing.

But that's where things get interesting. It's not how people behave at all.

Instead, research shows that we reject offers we consider unfair. Although this varies depending on culture and other factors, this general trend holds true.

Of all the explanations for this behaviour, it's the neurological ones that are most interesting. One experiment placed participants in an MRI imaging machine while they were playing. Offers perceived as stingy light up the anterior insular cortex, a region associated with disgust.

In other words — when it comes to dividing the pie, we don't behave rationally. We behave emotionally.

In the aftermath of the Brexit vote and the lead up to the Republican National Convention, there's been talk of undoing what has happened; about not giving Trump the nomination; or ignoring the non-binding referendum that's happened in the UK.

What's been missing from this dialogue so far is the recognition of our role in this game: We want these outcomes because we're the first player, and we want to keep proposing the same old deal because we just expect the second player to keep taking whatever it is we give them.

Doing this would be an incredibly dangerous path to walk down. The folks on the other side of this game of ultimatum have watched the tide of globalisation wash over the world and lift up everyone else's boat but their own.

Trump and Brexit have allowed them to channel their feelings into a rejection of the proposal that has been made — on trade, immigration, and globalisation, and dividing up those spoils.

To simply ignore their voice would be a huge mistake.

This is an abridged version of the article. Please visit Quartz for the full version.

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by Eisdrache

I see a lot of people saying that Bernie would have won this election. Yet none of them had predicted how strong Trump would show up in the end. Sure they were miffed that Hillary got the candidacy but the vast majority of them believed that she'd win in the end nonetheless. Hindsight is 20/20.

The sentiment of white supremacy helping Trump is there because it's true. This does not mean that every white person in America is like that but the support from that group was undeniably huge. It's a worrisome trend. And worse these groups will be back in full force for the next election cycle because Trump's victory makes them believe in their mindset.

Also the mentality of those who voted Trump being either a) 'don't worry it won't be as terrible as you think it will be. Still terrible but not so much. or b) 'Let's make America great again. We don't know how but it will be awesome. or c) 'It will be so fun to watch Trump hack away at all the things that we worked on the last eight years' - tells a long story.

The democrats have a long road ahead of them. They're not the bigotry party that the republicans have become but the implosion at this year's election was partly due to their failure to present both themselves as well as their candidate in a respectable light. Republicans on the other hand will do whatever they want at least for four years until they'll realize that things actually haven't changed for the better. The wake-up will be harsh indeed when the bubble pops.

Anyone thinking Sanders could actually won on a national stage when he couldn't win the primaries are living in a piple dream sad to say. Rural middle class whites don't really give a damn about him.That said regardless won between the two the supporters of both sides should come together knowing what were up against. Not staying at home and whining about it while a much worse case scenario unfolded before our very eyes. If there is one good thing you can say about the GOP is that they atleast have backbone and the wilingness put aside their squabbling and fall in step to achieve something. Dem on the otherhand hang themselves over minor disagrerments and splinter when things get tough. We saw this back we controlled the goverment over the issues of universal healthcare which is why we had to go more watered down version of his original policy. Now we are seeing that divde here again. Dems seriously need a stronger unifying philosophy that they can stick with.

Originally Posted by Kanon

I feel bad for Obama. Trump is going to undo everything he's worked so hard for during his two terms.

Jesus, I can't imagine what he must feel right now. The blood and sweat of everything he fought for during yhe last 8 years is going to be all undone by one of his most racist oppponents and there is nothing he can do about it. What sobering thought.

[Akito Kinomoto]

Let's enjoy the perfect shitstorm:

1. The establishment has continuously blocked raising the federal minimum wage to a living wage

2. 70% of all Americans are living paycheck to paycheck

3. They don't have the time to do their homework on these candidates, working 2 or 3 jobs just to make ends meet (work full time at 1 job and still not have enough to get by? wtf is this?)

4. The only exposure they'll get for the presidential candidates is mainstream TV news media

5. mainstream TV news media is an arm of the establishment, be it Democrat or Republican (I refuse to use the words Liberal and Conservative for them). Their approval rating was at its highest during the Vietnam War, during Watergate; 76% or thereabouts when they were adversarial to people in power and held them accountable. It's now 30% or thereabouts

6. The DNC worked with mainstream TV news media to tip the scales in Hillary's favor over Bernie during the primary, because the latter represented a threat to their corporate donors. Hillary was the best candidate they said. Be responsible they said. WHAT?! That wasn't just their feelings, they looked at the POLLS. Bernie was beating Trump on average by 9 points

7. Meanwhile, mainstream TV news media brings up scandal after scandal on Hillary but just brushes it off; you don't think the less versed audience is going to think "uh, something feels weird here..." Meanwhile, they do a shit job covering Trump, going after him aggressively but for all the wrong things; you don't think the less versed audience is going to think "wtf are you guys getting mad about his bad language or not being PC? get over it." You know, instead of hammering him endlessly on wanting to take out the families of terrorists and wanting to issue a travel ban on all Muslims entering the country, or wanting to default on American debt which would crash the world economy because the $ is the world reserve currency (<--here's a completely selfish economic reason not to vote for him). Shit that isn't PC outrage

8. Hillary ran the shittiest campaign ever. Let's call Bernie's supporters sexist and alienate them even though I'm going to need them in the general! Let's court neocons instead of unifying my base! I want centrist Tim Kaine as my VP instead of Bernie Sanders or even Elizabeth Warren! Let's talk in platitudes instead of addressing the policies my base cares about! I play the Pokemanz too! Stronger together, hahahahahahahahahaha!

If it wasn't Bernie, then his message was right. Hillary needed to run to the left hard. Obama's approval rating a few months ago was 58%; that's unheard of for a last term president at this late in their career. You know what Obama's been doing? He's been unapologetically liberal. It turns out when you simply give people the option, they're not going to classify an action along party lines; they'll just go "oh...that's a good idea" or "oh...that's a bad idea." People sometimes don't know what they lack until you give it to them

Trump isn't the problem; he's a symptom of the establishment disease that people feel victimized by and the uneasy alliance the GOP made with white nationalists since the 1960's. Unfortunately, this could be a symptom you can't brush off. I'll eat my words if he just turns out to be another politician. But now you're taking that bet

And oooh nooo, I haven't forgotten about you gigantic Hillary supporters. How about not talking down to the BERNIE BROS because you're going to do such a good job winning them over? How about not being everything your base was afraid of? Can we cut back on some of our military spending since we're hypocrites about being the world police as we give Saudi Arabia weapons as they slaughter civilians in Yemen and treat women as second-class citizens?

Thank you to the few people who didn't become partisan HACKS and were able to look at the situation objectively