US Elections 2008

[Kyuusai]

Originally Posted by Ermes Marana

This is where you make your mistake.

Education is not just aimed at teenagers who are having sex.

You might be surprised to find that in European countries that have sex education, the teen birth rate is less than HALF that of the united states. Teenagers have sex LESS.

I know this shocks you, but think about it.

When teenagers are given the facts, they are much more likely to avoid risky behavior, including having sex.

Keeping them ignorant has horrible results, as the statistics show.

Please understand that I am talking about specific curriculums in the US which are divided due to short-sighted regulations on federal funding for sex education programs. That was the point of my post: Many people think that this argument in the US stems from a debate between factions composed of people saying "educate them" or "don't educate them". The truth is much different.

I agree with you completely when you say that education is key to avoiding risky behavior and that ignorance results in catastrophe. I think the rest of my previous post is very clear on that.

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by solomon

As Usual FOX news made a killing on the RNC, with thier "fair and balance.."

OHHHH GOD AHAHAHAHHAHAAA I CAN'T FINISH THAT ONE WITH A STRAIGHT FACE, OH MAN.

Fox is less bias than networks such as MSNBC and CNN. If you spent anytime watching CNN last night, they were ruthless in attacking anything to do with Sarah Palin(my old man was calling me up to watch and blasting them for their inability to fact check anything right). I would trust Fox News anyday over some of the alternative media sources.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

But Sarah Palin either:
- didn't practice what she preaches;
- deliberately kept her daughter from accessing contraceptives, or even knowing much about how women get pregnant in the first place. If she hadn't, maybe her "moment of rebellion" wouldn't have had such consequences.

She either taught her daughter about sex, pregnancies and contraception, in which case the fault lies much more with the daughter, but Sarah Palin's a hypocrite.

Nice to know you forgot what it's like to be 17-18. Either you haven't gotten there yet, or it was many, many years ago. Once a teenager gets their driver's license and has the ability to leave home without their parents leading them around, they build up a lot of independence. Sarah Palin cannot watch her kids 24/7. They will become rebellious on somethings. It's in their nature. You cannot call Sarah Palin a hypocrite, for something her 17 year old daughter did. Did you know that Sarah Palin and her husband are high school sweet-hearts? Her family is very much a midwest styled family where they band together when something happens within the family(down-syndrome baby, teenager daughter gets pregnant, etc). The family supports itself, there is no crying to the government for help, or taking the easy way out with an abortion. Look up hypocrite. Sarah Palin isn't in it.

Originally Posted by Theowne

I don't know what is wrong with the McCain camp.

They had that one card that they could use over and over.....Obama is inexperienced. He is not ready to take on running a country as complex as America, as well as dealing with international affairs.

But now that's effectively gone since they've nominated Palin as VP who has an even thinner resume on the national/international stage than Obama. An entirely political move. Honestly, regardless of what McCain says, no one in the Republican camp thought to themselves that Palin would be the best substitute for President should McCain go down. No one can possible be that dense. No, it was a purely political move to win the election, and worry about the consequences later. Politics. Ugh.

Sorry but, Palin has quite a bit more experience than Obama in terms of executive experience. She's been a city council member, she's been a mayor, and she's been a governor. She was in Kuwait in 2007 visiting the Alaskan National Guard, she's cut taxes, cut spending, focused on building a huge national gas pipeline to the lower 48 states, she's done far more in her time in politics, all the while not having an end goal of being President(unlike a certain Senator from Illinois who's been a community organizer). McCain didn't pick Palin to garner women votes only. He picked her, because her ideals and methods are very similiar to his own. They aren't called Mavericks by the old guard republicans for nothing. The only way the Republican Party can clean itself up of the corruption in it's midst, is by people like her, McCain, and Jindal(Governor of LA). I'm just waiting for the Democrats to follow suit. Both parties are corrupt deeply. At least one has members trying to clean it up.

[cors8]

Originally Posted by justinstrife

Fox is less bias than networks such as MSNBC and CNN. If you spent anytime watching CNN last night, they were ruthless in attacking anything to do with Sarah Palin(my old man was calling me up to watch and blasting them for their inability to fact check anything right). I would trust Fox News anyday over some of the alternative media sources.

Define attacks please. The McCain camp has been criticizing the media for asking legitimate questions too. For example, the McCain camp thought Campbell Brown asking Tucker Bounds to give an example of orders Palin gave to the Alaska National Guard as "over-the-line and inappropriate".

[SeedFreedom]

Originally Posted by justinstrife

Fox is less bias than networks such as MSNBC and CNN. If you spent anytime watching CNN last night, they were ruthless in attacking anything to do with Sarah Palin(my old man was calling me up to watch and blasting them for their inability to fact check anything right). I would trust Fox News anyday over some of the alternative media sources.

Please name one single positive thing about the democrats that fox has expressed. Palin has been attacked for her situation with her daughter, her young age and lack of experience(and if you claim she has more "executive experience" then Mccain would be lacking as well so i dont accept that), and troopergate. All of these have happened and are legitimate. Meanwhile we have fox calling him Barack HUSSEIN Obama (note the emphasis), calling him a Muslim and going to a Muslim school, and not being american, all of which are unfounded and have no bases in facts.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by justinstrife

Nice to know you forgot what it's like to be 17-18. Either you haven't gotten there yet, or it was many, many years ago. Once a teenager gets their driver's license and has the ability to leave home without their parents leading them around, they build up a lot of independence. Sarah Palin cannot watch her kids 24/7. They will become rebellious on somethings. It's in their nature. You cannot call Sarah Palin a hypocrite, for something her 17 year old daughter did. Did you know that Sarah Palin and her husband are high school sweet-hearts? Her family is very much a midwest styled family where they band together when something happens within the family(down-syndrome baby, teenager daughter gets pregnant, etc). The family supports itself, there is no crying to the government for help, or taking the easy way out with an abortion. Look up hypocrite. Sarah Palin isn't in it.

Read my following post explaining what I meant by "hypocrite". I never held Sarah Palin responsible for her daughter's choices. But I did hold her responsible for her education. What I meant by "hypocrite" is that she may have given a better sex education and access to contraceptives to her children than what she wants for other people's kids. In which case, the mother is an hypocrite and the daughter an idiot.

Admittedly, I hadn't considered the possibility of an "Abstinence only! But here are condoms if you're going to do it anyway!" mentality. I'm not quite sure how it works.

[Kyuusai]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Read my following post explaining what I meant by "hypocrite". I never held Sarah Palin responsible for her daughter's choices. But I did hold her responsible for her education. What I meant by "hypocrite" is that she may have given a better sex education and access to contraceptives to her children than what she wants for other people's kids. In which case, the mother is an hypocrite and the daughter an idiot.

Admittedly, I hadn't considered the possibility of an "Abstinence only! But here are condoms if you're going to do it anyway!" mentality. I'm not quite sure how it works.

Access to contraceptives? They're available at any pharmacy.

It's really not difficult to promote abstinence while also encouraging the use of contraceptives for those who won't be abstinent. "Don't have sex before you're independent and in a stable, committed relationship (ie, marriage). It can have serious consequences, and protective methods aren't perfect. On the other hand, if you decide to not heed this advice, you'd better use a condom." Sure, if you were handing them out it would certainly seem to be hypocritical and encouraging of exactly the behavior you're advising against, but you don't have to do that because they're available at any pharmacy.

[raikage]

Originally Posted by justinstrife

Sorry but, Palin has quite a bit more experience than Obama in terms of executive experience. She's been a city council member, she's been a mayor, and she's been a governor. She was in Kuwait in 2007 visiting the Alaskan National Guard, she's cut taxes, cut spending, focused on building a huge national gas pipeline to the lower 48 states, she's done far more in her time in politics, all the while not having an end goal of being President(unlike a certain Senator from Illinois who's been a community organizer). McCain didn't pick Palin to garner women votes only. He picked her, because her ideals and methods are very similiar to his own. They aren't called Mavericks by the old guard republicans for nothing. The only way the Republican Party can clean itself up of the corruption in it's midst, is by people like her, McCain, and Jindal(Governor of LA). I'm just waiting for the Democrats to follow suit. Both parties are corrupt deeply. At least one has members trying to clean it up.

Honest question -- what does executive experience bring to the table? What does that even mean?

I've heard that term tossed around quite a bit, but I don't quite get what executive experience is, and why it's so much better than national legislative experience when we're talking about the Presidency.

[bayoab]

Minor related points to some posts that I'm not going to find to quote:

Regarding the topic of "If Obama loses in November", the reaction among democrats and the media will depend on a number of factors. First of all, what do the polls say? Secondly, what do the exit polls say? Thirdly, did anyone do anything stupid? Etc etc. It won't just be blamed on Hillary. If you remember what happened in 2000 with exit polls and the media calling results, we may have a repeat of that if it is close.

Regarding current daily polling, ignore it and wait for next week when the convention responses have been removed. There were two polls released yesterday for Alaska. One was +3 McCain. The other was +19 McCain. Clearly something is flawed.

Regarding the RNC, the analysis Nielsen put up for their ratings indicates that more white men and fewer minorities and women tuned in for the GOP final day. Also, someone had said how they had a higher three day average. It is statistical manipulation to count a three day average versus a four day average. The RNC was still 4 days.

[Archer]

Originally Posted by raikage

Honest question -- what does executive experience bring to the table? What does that even mean?

I've heard that term tossed around quite a bit, but I don't quite get what executive experience is, and why it's so much better than national legislative experience when we're talking about the Presidency.

Executive experience simply means you've been in a position of leadership (ex: mayor, governor, president). This is different from being a simple Congressperson, who represents the constituents but doesn't make legislation that affects them on their own. As for what it brings to the table: nothing, really. Being in a position of leadership doesn't give Palin any kind of advantage whatsoever, since it's rather how she acted in that position that matters. Bush had executive experience from his first term, and we all know how his second term turned out.

McCain has less executive experience than Palin does, which is why I believe using that argument for Palin makes no sense whatsoever. Why not just kick McCain out and have Palin run for president instead?

[cors8]

Originally Posted by Archer

McCain has less executive experience than Palin does, which is why I believe using that argument for Palin makes no sense whatsoever. Why not just kick McCain out and have Palin run for president instead?

I bet the Republican base would love for that to happen if they think they could get away with it. McCain is the only Republican who has a chance winning this year.

[Archer]

Originally Posted by cors8

I bet the Republican base would love for that to happen if they think they could get away with it. McCain is the only Republican who has a chance winning this year.

Personally, I sincerely believe that McCain is a really nice guy. He really is. He usually takes the high road when it comes to attacking his opponents, and he has actually done some responsible things in the past when he was in Congress. I think that he's been strung out to dry by his own political party, but I would've voted for him if he was like his 2000-campaign self. It's really a shame what happened to him, honestly.

Sarah Palin, on the other hand, is an underhanded person that barks too much and has nothing to show for it except for a spotty political record (not her personal life, which has absolutely NOTHING to do with this election). Supported the "Bridge to Nowhere", then abandoned it when it looked foolish while keeping all of the grant money, came into a town with no financial problems and left it with 20 million in debt, and accepted millions in earmarks, then paraded herself as the anti-earmark activist. Let's not even get to the allegations about her abuses of power.

Forget the news about her family, her history in office is much more shocking.

[bayoab]

Originally Posted by justinstrife

Fox is less bias than networks such as MSNBC and CNN. If you spent anytime watching CNN last night, they were ruthless in attacking anything to do with Sarah Palin(my old man was calling me up to watch and blasting them for their inability to fact check anything right). I would trust Fox News anyday over some of the alternative media sources. :eyespin

Fox News contains more right wing bias and spin than almost all other major networks combined. (Adding MSNBC probably pushes it slightly over thanks to Olbermann). Just to note, this means that CNN+NBC+ABC+CBS combined has less bias than Fox News. I think The Daily Show and The Colbert Report do a good enough job of showing this. Of course there are entire sites dedicated to pointing out Fox's bias, but they usually get dismissed as "liberal".

Now excuse me while I pull out some liberal talking points for the rest of this post. When the Bush administration would always go to Fox News to announce various pieces of propaganda news, clearly they are following someone's agenda.

Sorry but, Palin has quite a bit more experience than Obama in terms of executive experience. She's been a city council member, she's been a mayor, and she's been a governor.

There are student government presidents who are in power over more people than she has been in those lower positions. Also, how about we look at what she did in these positions. She came in with a surplus and left a 20 million dollar debt for the town she was mayor of. During her campaign for governor, she was for a certain bridge to nowhere until it became clear the rest of the country wanted nothing of it. However, there was another bridge and a road to nowhere which have been seen as massive waste projects and she never canceled. I'll just link to this regarding "tax cuts" and "cutting spending". It is easy to cut taxes when you have other revenue to actually pay for it. (Try that at the national level.)

She was in Kuwait in 2007 visiting the Alaskan National Guard,

This matters... how?

she's done far more in her time in politics,

I love this republican talking point because it white washes everything she did as good. And if she is such a great, experienced politician, why is the McCain campaign going through the trouble of hiding her from the media.

all the while not having an end goal of being President(unlike a certain Senator from Illinois who's been a community organizer).

Obama was hardly a person with presidential aspirations. He was a nobody outside of Illinois until a certain DNC speech in 2004. (If I recall... this talking point began from an essay that he wrote in school did it not?) Similarly, Palin was a nobody outside of Alaska until she was named Vice President.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by bayoab

Fox News contains more right wing bias and spin than almost all other major networks combined. (Adding MSNBC probably pushes it slightly over thanks to Olbermann). Just to note, this means that CNN+NBC+ABC+CBS combined has less bias than Fox News. I think The Daily Show and The Colbert Report do a good enough job of showing this. Of course there are entire sites dedicated to pointing out Fox's bias, but they usually get dismissed as "liberal".

Now excuse me while I pull out some liberal talking points for the rest of this post. When the Bush administration would always go to Fox News to announce various pieces of propaganda news, clearly they are following someone's agenda.


There are student government presidents who are in power over more people than she has been in those lower positions. Also, how about we look at what she did in these positions. She came in with a surplus and left a 20 million dollar debt for the town she was mayor of. During her campaign for governor, she was for a certain bridge to nowhere until it became clear the rest of the country wanted nothing of it. However, there was another bridge and a road to nowhere which have been seen as massive waste projects and she never canceled. I'll just link to this regarding "tax cuts" and "cutting spending". It is easy to cut taxes when you have other revenue to actually pay for it. (Try that at the national level.)

This matters... how?

I love this republican talking point because it white washes everything she did as good. And if she is such a great, experienced politician, why is the McCain campaign going through the trouble of hiding her from the media.

Obama was hardly a person with presidential aspirations. He was a nobody outside of Illinois until a certain DNC speech in 2004. (If I recall... this talking point began from an essay that he wrote in school did it not?) Similarly, Palin was a nobody outside of Alaska until she was named Vice President.

while i agee with everything you said on top. i disagree with you regarding Obama and his presidential aspiration. He defintely had a eye at the top prize.

[Quarkboy]

Here's a thought: What if the pick of Palin is the Republican's thinking ahead?

I know this may be attributing too much forethought to them, but if I put on my "Karl Rove" hat for a moment, my thought process would go something like this:

1. This year republicans are toast. The only way to win would be some giant fuck up by the democrats or a big terrorist attack inside the country a week before election day (and that might not be enough).
2. Considering point #1, we have to consider that Obama will win, and that most likely he will serve 2 terms because he will have a democratic congress to help him.
3. So the important thing is thinking about 2016. How do the republican's win? By running something democrats can't match. It's already been noted that with hillary not in the race anymore, there aren't really any big-name women left on the political stage. "If not hillary, then when?" everyone is asking. So they put Palin on the ticket now, and this introduces her to the country and provides a first tempering. Then, keeping her in the public eye for the 8 "obama years" she becomes the true knight of the republican party. An experienced, 52 year old female republican candidate who the democrats would have no one but owhite men to counter.

To me, Palin is not about winning in 2008, it's about winning in 2012 or 2016. It's more of a sacrificial move than anything else.

[solomon]

Sorry but a chick running the show in america? I don't see it being supported. Not untiil maybe 2 generations die off.

[cors8]

Originally Posted by Quarkboy

Here's a thought: What if the pick of Palin is the Republican's thinking ahead?

I know this may be attributing too much forethought to them, but if I put on my "Karl Rove" hat for a moment, my thought process would go something like this:

1. This year republicans are toast. The only way to win would be some giant fuck up by the democrats or a big terrorist attack inside the country a week before election day (and that might not be enough).
2. Considering point #1, we have to consider that Obama will win, and that most likely he will serve 2 terms because he will have a democratic congress to help him.
3. So the important thing is thinking about 2016. How do the republican's win? By running something democrats can't match. It's already been noted that with hillary not in the race anymore, there aren't really any big-name women left on the political stage. "If not hillary, then when?" everyone is asking. So they put Palin on the ticket now, and this introduces her to the country and provides a first tempering. Then, keeping her in the public eye for the 8 "obama years" she becomes the true knight of the republican party. An experienced, 52 year old female republican candidate who the democrats would have no one but owhite men to counter.

To me, Palin is not about winning in 2008, it's about winning in 2012 or 2016. It's more of a sacrificial move than anything else.

I highly doubt McCain would be willing to follow that plan, if he had any pride at all.

Also, 2012 or 2016 is very long time. A lot of things can happen politically. Obama came to prominence in 2004. A new Democratic woman could just as easily come to the national stage and challenge Palin. I think there are a few female Democratic governors who could rise to challenge her, especially on experience. A state with a population of less than a million becomes less impressive when you compare it to the lower 48 states.

[Archer]

Fox News occasionally loves to go from "heavy bias" to "outright fabrication" every once in a while.

This news story about the Democrats throwing away flags is one of them.

I still don't know why this channel has viewers period, much less have more viewers than any other news network out there. This isn't journalism, this is propaganda.

[solomon]

TV news is primarily watched heavily by people of at least 45 years of age. After a while, it'll gradually devolve in influence.

Interesting show I'm hearing here on WCPN radio in Cleveland. Tavis Smiley is having a show with panelists about McCain's electablility and possible reign, er I mean presidential career.

A repub strategist made an interesting comment about it being very hard for McCain to govern over a congress where you will have Democrats flamming mad that a pachyderm is running the show again, plus having to deal with the extreme fringes of his party that may not always warm up to his "maverick bi-partisan" status.

I won't make any claims as to it's truth or not, but just some food for thought.

[xxmimixx]

I watched some clips of the speech that Sarah Palin had to say. LOL, she had to read a screen to get her point across, and at certain angles, you can see the speech scrolling down the screen lol. So ghetto indeed. And lol, John McCain sounded so fake. I don't know, but maybe because he's old and he's a conservative.

But still, it is like one of the funniest things I ever saw when it comes to politics. And you know whats SO freaking sad about Palin. She supports those guys that shoot wolves from a plane just for fun. I understand that probably in Alaska they do that, but just for sport? WTF!!!!

[solomon]

Mimi girl, I have a soft spot for animuls too but don't expect much change in the hunting culture of america until most of all animals except for dogs, cats and us are extinct. It's in our blood.

Also ease up on Palin a bit, I don't like her much non neither but still she has to get used to the malovelent soul crushing merciless demond that is US national politics.