AnoHana - Episode 6 Discussion / Poll

[User68604]

This aint your average saturday morning cartoon,

so ruling out a thematic/dark progression is silly...

[OceanBlue]

Originally Posted by recover

This aint your average saturday morning cartoon,

so ruling out a thematic/dark progression is silly...

That doesn't mean it can't be ruled out for other reasons.

Rather, I'll say that it'd be a bad choice because it's so unrelated to everything that has happened so far. I'm not convinced that Menma being abused would be related to anything happening in the story. It'd just happen to drum up sympathy or tears. That's why I personally believe it'd be melodramatic.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Seiryuu

Naruko's getting to me more and more. There's not much worse you can do to a girl than spread rumors like that. I'm a little uncertain about how close she really is with her "friends", or whether to a good extent she just hangs out with them to have someone to be with. And then they let some guy take her away.

Which they considered lucky for her. I mean, that's what they were there for, right?

And worse, as the only ones there they were obviously the ones who told everyone how she went off to a hotel with an old man she'd just met.

You forget the PTA member who saw her. (And apparently did nothing to help her... Well, whatever.)

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Seiryuu

BTW, one thing's been bothering me. Where the heck did the phrase "Ecchi, Sketchy, One-touch!" come from? I've heard it before several times but it just seems really weird.

...

If I might make a suggestion: try reading the thread.

Originally Posted by karice67

It's actually a Japanese word game that goes back at least one generation (Japanese link if anyone wants to have a gander). The whole idea is to finish the phrase with a word ending in "-chi", and possibly adding a rhyming line.

[Malkuth]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

... She said "no", he tried to drag her to the hotel forcefully. So, yeah, attempted rape.

Originally Posted by Haru~

In that older guy's perspective yes, but to a third person view perspective, it's an attempted rape. Moreover, why would you drag someone refusing, struggling to your advances. That guy just assumed Anaru is like that.

That's an exaggeration IMHO, I mean what was Naruko expecting... watch One Piece or think of it in another way, if you reverse their sexes or ages would you say it was an attempted rape?

[Anh_Minh]

It doesn't matter what she was expecting. Or what he was expecting. Neither do their genders or ages. She said "no", he tried to force her. How is that not attempted rape? Unless you believe he wanted to watch TV with her in that hotel room?

Seriously, what's next? "Look at how she dressed, she totally wanted it"?

[Solafighter]

Will there be at least one episode, where Menma wont cry?...


Good episode, though.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by OceanBlue

That doesn't mean it can't be ruled out for other reasons.

I don't see much reason why it should be completely ruled out. At least not yet.

I will say, though, that a plot element of this seriousness would need to come up soon in order to be effective, imo.

Rather, I'll say that it'd be a bad choice because it's so unrelated to everything that has happened so far.

That's not necessarily the case. What if the big reveal that Menma was going to make to the rest of the "Super Peace Busters" on that eventful day was that she was enduring abuse at home, and was hoping that her teammates in the "Super Peace Busters" could save her from that?

If so, things start to tie together nicely, in my opinion.

And, to me, melodrama is about making a mountain out of a molehill, or about using an actual mountain for pure shock value alone. If handled correctly, a reveal about child abuse in this anime would not be just shock value, and it's a pretty serious issue that does happen in real life. I'd personally be impressed to see an anime tackle that issue with maturity and seriousness.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

It doesn't matter what she was expecting. Or what he was expecting. Neither do their genders or ages. She said "no", he tried to force her. How is that not attempted rape? Unless you believe he wanted to watch TV with her in that hotel room?

Seriously, what's next? "Look at how she dressed, she totally wanted it"?

Agreed.

[Haru~]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

That's an exaggeration IMHO, I mean what was Naruko expecting... watch One Piece or think of it in another way, if you reverse their sexes or ages would you say it was an attempted rape?

Are you that older guy who likes One Piece?!

[Malkuth]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

It doesn't matter what she was expecting. Or what he was expecting. Neither do their genders or ages. She said "no", he tried to force her. How is that not attempted rape? Unless you believe he wanted to watch TV with her in that hotel room?

Seriously, what's next? "Look at how she dressed, she totally wanted it"?

Don't turn this into some feminist rant What I am saying is that it is a little bit more complicated than a yes or no. Should it go to court, apart from ruining both their lives, the one with the most money and/or standing will win anyway. So if you want the short cynical (and not necessarily right) answer, getting into such situation has it's consequences.

Originally Posted by Haru~

Are you that older guy who likes One Piece?!

I hate One Piece

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

Don't turn this into some feminist rant What I am saying is that it is a little bit more complicated than a yes or no. Should it go to court, apart from ruining both their lives, the one with the most money and/or standing will win anyway. So if you want the short cynical (and not necessarily right) answer, getting into such situation has it's consequences.

What about Anaru's situation even comes close to implying sexual consent?

From what I can tell, these were just a bunch of teenagers hanging out together at some establishment. The establishment in question didn't even look seedy to me.

Anaru is clearly not enjoying herself like her two female friends are, so a guy asks her if she'd like to leave with him. 9 times out of 10 in anime this sort of situation would segue into a romantic confession on the guy's part (or even just the lead-up to one later on), not propositioning to have sex right then and there.


Again, keep in mind that these are teenagers, not adults at a bar late at night.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

Don't turn this into some feminist rant What I am saying is that it is a little bit more complicated than a yes or no. Should it go to court, apart from ruining both their lives, the one with the most money and/or standing will win anyway. So if you want the short cynical (and not necessarily right) answer, getting into such situation has it's consequences.

The court would make it complicated because it would be hard to prove he forced her. Her word against his. The facts which we as anime watchers saw quite clearly point to attempted rape, or at least attempted unlawful imprisonment (Yeah. He wanted to drag her to a love hotel for totally chaste reasons. Right.). She said no, he tried to use physical force to coerce her. It doesn't get much more clear cut.

And I can't really imagine much you could say against that that wouldn't make you sound like some creepy date rapist, but hey, surprise me.

[MeoTwister5]

A Reason for Living

I think the concept of personal responsibility runs deep in this show. Everyone of the friends feel responsible in some way for Menma’s death, but now we see that she suffers deeply as well. She cries not for herself, but for her friends, so much so that in somehow impedes her ability to move on. It's no longer just about the five remaining friends moving on with lives, but Menma moving on with hers (in a less than alive sense).

[Malkuth]

@Anh_Minh: So saying that it is more complicated than a simple yes or no makes me a date rapist I guess if I don't blindly condemn inappropriate behaviour and think about the whole situation, I am some kind of enemy? Dunno, maybe I give women much more credit than those who vocally protect their rights.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

What about Anaru's situation even comes close to implying sexual consent?

From what I can tell, these were just a bunch of teenagers hanging out together at some establishment. The establishment in question didn't even look seedy to me.

Anaru is clearly not enjoying herself like her two female friends are, so a guy asks her if she'd like to leave with him.

Don't forget, that her friends, like the audience, immediately understood his intentions, and even manage to comment on them before they left the karaoke booth. Yet she follows him, until they reach the love hotel, and still debates about his intentions... so either someone should either go and live her life in a convent or stop acting like an ostrich.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

9 times out of 10 in anime this sort of situation would segue into a romantic confession on the guy's part (or even just the lead-up to one later on), not propositioning to have sex right then and there.

In romantic anime, movies, novels, and fairytales... not IRL.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Again, keep in mind that these are teenagers, not adults at a bar late at night.

Insignificant, teenagers can have sex around late elementary or early middle school, so if they are not up to the responsibilities that come with it, they should not mess around, because nothing good will out of it.

In this case, Naruko is hanging out with people that she has nothing in common, and is forcing into herself a life-style that she does not enjoy. Shouldn't it be for that attempted rape, and the confession from Yukiatsu, she would have gotten into more serious trouble, than her classmates labeling her as a whore. And yet again she is saved by her NEET friend... You know damsels are in distress, not because of stressful situations, but because they can not handle them alone, and this is a recurring theme with Naruko.

Now, I know it sounds harsh, but Naruko is not a kid any more at 16, and certainly none will see her that way should this be a real life situation, except a certain group that these days blindly supports one sex completely ignoring the context. I definitely do not support that the old guy behaved properly, quite the opposite, but what I originally said is that Naruko is not exactly innocent in the whole situation.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

@Anh_Minh: So saying that it is more complicated than a simple yes or no makes me a date rapist I guess if I don't blindly condemn inappropriate behaviour and think about the whole situation, I am some kind of enemy? Dunno, maybe I give women much more credit than those who vocally protect their rights.

Saying a woman doesn't have the right to say "no" from the moment she accepts going to a karaoke booth with you does, indeed, pretty much make you a date rapist. Or at least some kind of supporter of date rape. I mean, seriously, what kind of credit do you give women that means that men have the right to force themselves on them?

Don't forget, that her friends, like the audience, immediately understood his intentions, and even manage to comment on them before they left the karaoke booth. Yet she follows him, until they reach the love hotel,

Because it was, apparently, on the way to the station.

and still debates about his intentions... so either someone should either go and live her life in a convent or stop acting like an ostrich.

There's a serious line between "he's maybe going to proposition her (or maybe, you know, act more civilized and just ask for her number or something...)" and "he won't take no for an answer". Maybe you should give men more credit. We're not all... criminals.

In romantic anime, movies, novels, and fairytales... not IRL.



Insignificant, teenagers can have sex around late elementary or early middle school, so if they are not up to the responsibilities that come with it, they should not mess around, because nothing good will out of it.

Not precisely relevant to this case, but you do know the concept of "age of consent", do you? Even if kids are dumb enough to have sex, adults do have a responsibility not to go for it with them. Let alone forcibly dragging them to love hotels.

In this case, Naruko is hanging out with people that she has nothing in common, and is forcing into herself a life-style that she does not enjoy. Shouldn't it be for that attempted rape, and the confession from Yukiatsu, she would have gotten into more serious trouble, than her classmates labeling her as a whore. And yet again she is saved by her NEET friend... You know damsels are in distress, not because of stressful situations, but because they can not handle them alone, and this is a recurring theme with Naruko.

Now, I know it sounds harsh, but Naruko is not a kid any more at 16, and certainly none will see her that way should this be a real life situation, except a certain group that these days blindly supports one sex completely ignoring the context.

Context can count in cases of misread signals. From the moment she said she didn't want to and struggled against him, that wasn't what was happening at all any more. He knew damn well she didn't want to go there with him, and he choose to force her.

I definitely do not support that the old guy behaved properly, quite the opposite, but what I originally said is that Naruko is not exactly innocent in the whole situation.

Naruko's made some bad choices. Maybe she should have been more careful in her choice of friends, maybe she should have made more of an effort to not be alone with that creep. None of that takes away from her right to say "no". It's not a matter of gender, or even of age. It's a simple matter of the right to say "no", even when you wear sexy clothes or go out to karaoke.

[CWW]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

Shouldn't it be for that attempted rape, and the confession from Yukiatsu, she would have gotten into more serious trouble, than her classmates labeling her as a whore. And yet again she is saved by her NEET friend... You know damsels are in distress, not because of stressful situations, but because they can not handle them alone, and this is a recurring theme with Naruko.

What the hell does this even mean? So because she can't defend herself, it's somehow her fault? That is not how the law works. I'm sorry, but you're saying some of the dumbest things in this thread. I'm not even going to try to make sense of your perceived morality.

[Malkuth]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Saying a woman doesn't have the right to say "no" from the moment she accepts going to a karaoke booth with you does,

That is not even close to what I wrote

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

indeed, pretty much make you a date rapist. Or at least some kind of supporter of date rape.

Funny, I thought we were talking about a fictional character... how did you manage to equate a behaviour that I completely disapprove of, with what I am doing IRL eludes me

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I mean, seriously, what kind of credit do you give women that means that men have the right to force themselves on them?

That they can handle themselves, instead of needing some white knight to constantly protect them.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Because it was, apparently, on the way to the station.

If I remember correctly, Naruko said that they are not heading towards the station, in the beginning of the scene.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

There's a serious line between "he's maybe going to proposition her (or maybe, you know, act more civilized and just ask for her number or something...)" and "he won't take no for an answer". Maybe you should give men more credit. We're not all... criminals.

I give men credit, when their favourite past-time is not hanging out after work with high school girl eager to entertain them. Sorry for being harsh here, but that's what the white knight mentality leads to.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Not precisely relevant to this case, but you do know the concept of "age of consent", do you? Even if kids are dumb enough to have sex, adults do have a responsibility not to go for it with them. Let alone forcibly dragging them to love hotels.

And you certainly must be aware of natural instincts, if a sexually mature person wants to engage in it, it is unnatural to blame his/her partner. That's just witch-hunting from irresponsible and frustrated parents. But I have no idea why you bring this up, it has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Context can count in cases of misread signals. From the moment she said she didn't want to and struggled against him, that wasn't what was happening at all any more. He knew damn well she didn't want to go there with him, and he choose to force her.

No he didn't, she might be just fooling around. You clearly have double standards here. And before you freak out again, I am not saying that she was fooling around, nor that he couldn't have understood her real intentions, but that it is a possibility... it's not as clear cut as you (and actually I) would like it to be.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Naruko's made some bad choices. Maybe she should have been more careful in her choice of friends, maybe she should have made more of an effort to not be alone with that creep.

That's what I originally said.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

None of that takes away from her right to say "no". It's not a matter of gender, or even of age. It's a simple matter of the right to say "no", even when you wear sexy clothes or go out to karaoke.

Agreed with one reservation, that wearing sexy clothes, hanging out with those type of guys, and leaving alone with one of them, probably will be interpreted otherwise, as was the case by everyone except Naruko. Still I never disagreed that no should have been the end of it, just that after everything she did, it would be hard for that type of guy to take it seriously. But this is a far cry from saying he tried to rape her, to say that we must assume that a lot more would follow, granted probable, but not certain.

And please try reply to what I write, not to what you assume I might have written in defence of that type of guys, because for one I am not defending them, and certainly do not behave like them.

Originally Posted by CWW

What the hell does this even mean? So because she can't defend herself, it's somehow her fault?

Indeed, it was in her hands to avoid all these situations, but she is a 16 year old inexperienced virgin, and everyone in 2chan can now be happy, that she was saved from a traumatic experience, by a snobbish cross-dresser, and then by a hikikomori.

Originally Posted by CWW

That is not how the law works.

Irrelevant to what I wrote in that paragraph.

Originally Posted by CWW

I'm sorry, but you're saying some of the dumbest things in this thread.

No comment.

Originally Posted by CWW

I'm not even going to try to make sense of your perceived morality.

Try Jungfrukällan (en: The Virgin Spring) by Ingmar Bergman, for my morality on the subject.

[james0246]

Please ceass this discussion. It has nothing to do with this episode. Either find an appropriate thread, or take the discussion to PM.

[Deconstructor]

Another very good episode, but perhaps lacking the emotional movement I felt from the first two episodes. Menma bawling her eyes out may be getting too repetitive. Luckily, the straightforward attitude of Jinta provides some comfort to Anaru, who was clearly suffering terribly inside.

Tsuruko could make Yukiatsu her slave, if she decided to use the crossdressing photos as blackmail. Actually, she could probably get him kicked out of school by publishing his secret identity in the school newspaper. The fact that Tsuruko has withheld those photos shows she has somewhat gotten over her past unrequited love for Yukiatsu. But I'm not so sure about how she feels with Menma and the others.

Darn, I was hoping Anaru and Yukiatsu would get it on.

Episode 6 Rating: 8.5/10

Originally Posted by james0246

Please ceass this discussion. It has nothing to do with this episode. Either find an appropriate thread, or take the discussion to PM.

Hmm... where were you when the Madoka wars were being waged?

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Deconstructor

Another very good episode, but perhaps lacking the emotional movement I felt from the first two episodes. Menma bawling her eyes out may be getting too repetitive. Luckily, the straightforward attitude of Jinta provides some comfort to Anaru, who was clearly suffering terribly inside.

Tsuruko could make Yukiatsu her slave, if she decided to use the crossdressing photos as blackmail.

Maybe, maybe not. He could very well go "publish and be damned", since there seems to be a real self-destructive streak in him.

Actually, she could probably get him kicked out of school by publishing his secret identity in the school newspaper.

Why would she want to do that?

The fact that Tsuruko has withheld those photos shows she has somewhat gotten over her past unrequited love for Yukiatsu.

How so? Not showing those pictures is her way of protecting him. At a certain inconvenience to herself, though I'm not sure turning him into a social pariah would better her own situation.