Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[Cherudim Arche]

Originally Posted by The American Average

wow this is true then Cagalli really is the Hand-me down Queen. everything she gets is just Kira's old stuff with little change.

For a hand-me down, this is really a bargain seeing the equipment she can get without going to ZAFT or EA. It's better than most packs while still being flight capable which seems to bigger problem ZAFT and EA suffer when changing packs as well as being armed to point where it can actually fight decently.

[Aquaman OS]

The salvaged parts thing is probably wrong seeing as Freedom's Baleena cannons were vaporized by Genesis and Mwu didn't use perfect Strike in his final battle.

Spare parts though is likely, since they have spare Freedom and Strike parts lying around the AA.

It looks like it has a beam cannon and a rail cannon in addition to one anti ship sword. So it looks like it's a balanced all around pack. IWSP on the other hand is mostly solid weapons. And it seems to be based on the Akatsuki pack, although since the Akatsuki isn't known to anyone but Erica and Kisaka, a prototype for it is more likely.

[The American Average]

Originally Posted by Cherudim Arche

For a hand-me down, this is really a bargain seeing the equipment she can get without going to ZAFT or EA.

well shes Orb. they can make they own stuff/MS, so i really don't see why she can't have her own exclusive suit. I don't know a a cool Custom Astray or something.

@Aquaman OS seems the most likely logical outcome. Still the Akatsuki is a weird one when considering the tech timeline.

[Cherudim Arche]

Originally Posted by The American Average

well shes Orb. they can make they own stuff/MS, so i really don't see why she can't have her own exclusive suit. I don't know a a cool Custom Astray or something.

@Aquaman OS seems the most likely logical outcome. Still the Akatsuki is a weird one when considering the tech timeline.

Akatsuki isn't that weird in the tech timeline. Either your putting in the front with the G-projects or the second generation ZGMF line in on the chart.

I have a question for you? Seeing that Ootari is literally made up of spare parts, what would be the reason for the EA for not producing new packs from spares backpacks in their facilities.

[The American Average]

Originally Posted by Cherudim Arche

I have a question for you? Seeing that Ootari is literally made up of spare parts, what would be the reason for the EA for not producing new packs from spares backpacks in their facilities.

I don't get your question, are you asking why EA don't use spare parts to make new packs? well why wouldn't they use everything you have to the fullest, seems logical use of supplies.

My bet the Ootari literally, has only one unit considering its made from spare Freedom and Strike parts, its not like there is tons of those laying around. so Orb/EA couldn't make more Ootari packs.

[S.Freedom]

Originally Posted by Cherudim Arche

Either your putting in the front with the G-projects or the second generation ZGMF line in on the chart.

Honestly I think the Akatsuki is a 1.5 generation gundam. It's better than G-project units but not equal to the likes of the Freedom or Justice. At best the Akatsuki is the equal of the Freedom/Justice.

And define "spare" parts. As from the look of it, Morgenrate put some thought into this pack. The idea's may have come from the Freedom or Strike, but that doesn't necessarily mean it was built from spare parts.

[Aquaman OS]

It looks like they took a sword striker sword, a cannon and a railgun from the Freedom, modified them slightly and stuck them on a flight pack.

It also looks like it has a Babi or Ash missile launcher attached to it come to think of it. And some missiles on the wings.

Meanwhile the problem with Akatsuki is that it was seemingly built before Uzumi died, but about on par with non nuclear MS's of two years later, AND it has armor technology far superior to modern MS's despite being created two year ago. It's pretty much easily outfighting everything but the 4 Nuclear Deutrion units.

And of course if they had that two years ago why didn't they bring it out then? (I know because Destiny wasn't thought of back then, but then don't really explain this)

[monster]

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

Meanwhile the problem with Akatsuki is that it was seemingly built before Uzumi died, but about on par with non nuclear MS's of two years later, AND it has armor technology far superior to modern MS's despite being created two year ago. It's pretty much easily outfighting everything but the 4 Nuclear Deutrion units.

And of course if they had that two years ago why didn't they bring it out then? (I know because Destiny wasn't thought of back then, but then don't really explain this)

Are we sure that the Akatsuki was build before Uzumi died? He could've just started development on it. It's also possible that, while the Akatsuki itself had been built, not all of its features were completed yet.

[The American Average]

Originally Posted by S.Freedom

Honestly I think the Akatsuki is a 1.5 generation gundam. It's better than G-project units but not equal to the likes of the Freedom or Justice. At best the Akatsuki is the equal of the Freedom/Justice.

You know i bet Mwu could have beaten a Nuclear Deutrion Gundam in the Akatsuki if he wanted, especially if it was up against Shinn or Rey. heck with the Akatsuki's beam reflecting coat he could give Kira in the Strike Freedom a run for his money. Inifinte Justice i can't say, that suit is like really good but not great, ya know

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

Meanwhile the problem with Akatsuki is that it was seemingly built before Uzumi died, but about on par with non nuclear MS's of two years later, AND it has armor technology far superior to modern MS's despite being created two year ago. It's pretty much easily outfighting everything but the 4 Nuclear Deutrion units.

Makes me wonder just how good the Akatsuki would be if Orb made/upgraded the Akatsuki to Destiny series tech like the Nuclear Deutrion units. Some upgrades the armor to handle melee better would be nice. always bugged me that the Akatsuki could bounce back beams but is totally useless against beam swords or Beam Boomerangs

[monster]

Originally Posted by The American Average

You know i bet Mwu could have beaten a Nuclear Deutrion Gundam in the Akatsuki if he wanted, especially if it was up against Shinn or Rey. heck with the Akatsuki's beam reflecting coat he could give Kira in the Strike Freedom a run for his money. Inifinte Justice i can't say, that suit is like really good but not great, ya know

I don't think so. Kira, Athrun, and Shinn would close in quickly and disable/destroy the Akatsuki with sabers/sword.

Makes me wonder just how good the Akatsuki would be if Orb made/upgraded the Akatsuki to Destiny series tech like the Nuclear Deutrion units. Some upgrades the armor to handle melee better would be nice. always bugged me that the Akatsuki could bounce back beams but is totally useless against beam swords or Beam Boomerangs

Which Destiny series tech for armor is not totally useless against beam swords or beam boomerangs?

[S.Freedom]

Well, we could apply Astray idea's to the Akatsuki. If I understand it correctly, Moregenrate applied a variation of PS armor to the Astray Blue Frame. It only surrounded the cockpit to increase the pilot survivability.

Perhaps if PS armor was applied to the internal frame of the Akatsuki it could provide some protection against melee combat.

btw, are we sure the Ootori back has a combo of beam/rail cannon? As I'm not sure I necessarily get the logic behind having one of each instead of two of one or the other.

[Cherudim Arche]

Originally Posted by S.Freedom

Well, we could apply Astray idea's to the Akatsuki. If I understand it correctly, Moregenrate applied a variation of PS armor to the Astray Blue Frame. It only surrounded the cockpit to increase the pilot survivability.

Perhaps if PS armor was applied to the internal frame of the Akatsuki it could provide some protection against melee combat.

btw, are we sure the Ootori back has a combo of beam/rail cannon? As I'm not sure I necessarily get the logic behind having one of each instead of two of one or the other.

Your thinking of 2nd G of the blue frame. The problem with that is that becomes so bulky that it impedes it combat function. In addition it depends on other combat role it is going to have, for it is literally dedicated to defense by adding more phase shift. Regular Phase shift would not boost its survival against beam blades. It will still pierce and slice through the armor as it it is nothing. You have better luck with ridiculous size weapons for defense like testament that can counter rather than full proof armor that slows the mobile suit drastically.

[Aquaman OS]

Originally Posted by monster

I don't think so. Kira, Athrun, and Shinn would close in quickly and disable/destroy the Akatsuki with sabers/sword.

Put a pilot in it that's incredibly skilled, (and not Cagalli, who's far lacking compared to Shinn to put it mildly) and can keep away from the sabers and use Dragoons to fire back and even the almighty Strike Freedom and Destiny will have a problem if they can't get close and their long range weapons are useless against it. Imagine Freedom vs Providence where Providence's dragoon's can't be shot down and ranged weaponry is useless against it. Kira would have been screwed.

Originally Posted by monster

Which Destiny series tech for armor is not totally useless against beam swords or beam boomerangs?

None. But on the flip side it's still better than Phase Shift. You can't shoot down a beam shot, but missiles and other solid weapons can be shot down before they hit (or blocked with the shield) and Akatsuki's armor doesn't drain from the battery, leaving it with plenty of power. If you can keep away from the swords and destroy the boomerangs before they hit you, you'd be invincible.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

Put a pilot in it that's incredibly skilled, (and not Cagalli, who's far lacking compared to Shinn to put it mildly) and can keep away from the sabers and use Dragoons to fire back and even the almighty Strike Freedom and Destiny will have a problem if they can't get close and their long range weapons are useless against it. Imagine Freedom vs Providence where Providence's dragoon's can't be shot down and ranged weaponry is useless against it. Kira would have been screwed.

Maybe, maybe not, but certainly not with Mu, whom The American Average was talking about.

Oh, and actually, the Strike Freedom still has the railguns and it's quite comfortable at long range as well, especially in space.

None.

Exactly. Akatsuki is already better than other Destiny-era mobile suits at handling beam weapons as far as armor is concerned.

[Skye629]

Originally Posted by S.Freedom

btw, are we sure the Ootori back has a combo of beam/rail cannon? As I'm not sure I necessarily get the logic behind having one of each instead of two of one or the other.

Beams serve a normal combat function, while the railgun provides a way to punch through armor as it is using ammunition (and better due to the projectile acceleration from the railgun)

I would say that this pack overall is an experimental prototype to gauge performance and what works best, while at the same time seemingly providing answers for almost everything

[S.Freedom]

Originally Posted by Cherudim Arche

Your thinking of 2nd G of the blue frame. The problem with that is that becomes so bulky that it impedes it combat function.

Yeah I knew it was one of the versions of Blue Frame. I just couldn't remember which one.

And perhaps I'm being dense/dumb, but how is PS armor bulky exactly? It's not physical armor like a shield but a energy intensive device. Even than no PS equipped unit seemed overly burdened by having said device other than the power required to activate/maintain it.

@Skye629 I get the benefits each has and all. I'm just not sure I get why it's not two rail cannons or two beam cannons. As I'd think having two of one would be preferable to having one of each. Especially considering Cagalli is the Rouge's pilot and not Mu or Kira.

[The American Average]

Originally Posted by S.Freedom

Especially considering Cagalli is the Rouge's pilot and not Mu or Kira.

I really think people underestimate poor Cagalli's piloting skills. By Destiny I'd bet she was at or above Lunamaria's skill level in terms of piloting. She (orb) got ZAFT to push back, till the Minerva got there then she held off Shinn till Kira got there. I doubt Luna could have done that if the situation was the same for her.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by The American Average

I really think people underestimate poor Cagalli's piloting skills.

I agree.

Cagalli was a trained pilot and veteran of the previous war who had been through thick and thin with Kira & co (and like them, can go SEED). There is no indication to suggest that she cannot hold her own, even if compared to calibers such as Mwu. She is right there with the top aces and definitely above the likes of Lunamaria.

Just because she was royally nerfed in the 2nd season does not mean her piloting skills somehow disappeared

- Tak

[S.Freedom]

You do realize the only reason Cagalli "held off" Shin is because of the Akatsuki's anti-beam armor right?

And while she may have been a trained pilot she had a tendency of being shot down rather easily by other pilots. The only time she wasn't shot down was the last battle of Seed. Even then she needed Yzak to save her arse from being taken out by one of the druggies. And that's after activating her Seed factor, something she never displayed during Destiny.

To be perfectly honest with you.If given a choice between Luna and Cagalli watching my back in a firefight I'd much rather have Luna.

[The American Average]

Originally Posted by S.Freedom

You do realize the only reason Cagalli "held off" Shin is because of the Akatsuki's anti-beam armor right?

And while she may have been a trained pilot she had a tendency of being shot down rather easily by other pilots. The only time she wasn't shot down was the last battle of Seed. Even then she needed Yzak to save her arse from being taken out by one of the druggies. And that's after activating her Seed factor, something she never displayed during Destiny.

To be perfectly honest with you.If given a choice between Luna and Cagalli watching my back in a firefight I'd much rather have Luna.

well in the Akatsuki fight. Shinn only shot twice, and the rest of the fight was melee battle, which Shinn is best at, and Cagalli held him off long enough for kira to get there. She only started losing when Kira entered to atmosphere to make him look good .

Seed series she was fine, besides the druggies were taking on Kira and Athrun so thats saying something of Cagalli's skill. Also why couldn't Cagalli still use SEED mode? Any and all characters that had seed mode could use it again, just look at Lacus.

Luna is also useless in Destiny remember? she did pretty much nothing except shoot down some Windams. In terms of skill they would be in the same ball park. Shinn "saved" Luna for Athrun in the final battle just like Yzak saved Cagalli in Seed.