Sword Art Online - Episode 19 Discussion / Poll

[Dengar]

I don't understand why it's either or? Isn't he helping Leefa out AND saving Asuna. It's just a little detour that might even help him along. Going it alone is really a bad idea anyway. There's also the fact that this is a thing that's happening right now, in front of him. He's not the type of guy who doesn't help out people who are in a jam.

And uhm, forgive me for saying this cliche, but there have to be at least some people who agree with me on this.

Online games are serious business.

[chaos_alfa]

Originally Posted by Dengar

I don't understand why it's either or? Isn't he helping Leefa out AND saving Asuna. It's just a little detour that might even help him along. Going it alone is really a bad idea anyway. There's also the fact that this is a thing that's happening right now, in front of him. He's not the type of guy who doesn't help out people who are in a jam.

And uhm, forgive me for saying this cliche, but there have to be at least some people who agree with me on this.

Online games are serious business.

And it looks like they where going in the same direction all the same.
They both needed to exit the cave through the same exit.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

*Sigh* it isn't about expecting Kazuto to go out of character: I never expected one bit to see him stabbing Leefa whatsoever.
There is another plain option: simply declining and keep going alone. It isn't like he would act like a douche, considering it is a matter that does not have any deep implication with him, and Suguha realized that the guy behind ALO Kirito has "special" reason to goes to the world tree, past the faction war, hence why she wouldn't mind being stabbed there.

The other option would have been a compromise, with Kirito's assistance, like escorting Leefa to the possible ambush, then leaves.

The simple fact Leefa helped him in the game as a guide doesn't mean he has any obligation to repay the favor (this does happen so much IRL and in MMO that it has no morality weight). Of course, anyone who followed the series thus far wouldn't be surprised to see him giving assistance to Leefa. Once again, the problem is how his behaviour and actions tend towards to be easily focusing on ALO conflicts and all, instead of his main priority, due to the overly "Leefa centred" direction of the arc.
I wouldn't be surprised if Asuna is the main worry of Kazuto all the frigging time, and that's the natural case, but the -presentation- fails in that regard, which is the root of the problem. And the fact ALO conflict is not as important as Asuna's being trapped in there doesn't help in that odd direction. It really has nothing to do with "make friends, make an army to save Asuna", because such points are -not- hinted within the character perspectives. As a narrative perspective, it is a given, but that's that.

Going it alone sounds like a terrible idea though. Kirito doesn't know anything about this place other than what Yui can gather from her level of access. He goes wondering around by himself and he may never even get to Asuna any time soon, certainly not within the 7 day limit. If this fight taught him anything is that despite being seriously powerful thanks to his SAO stats, he is not invincible here. If he can barely handle that kind of party how is he going to power himself through whatever is guarding the way up that tree? He needs help and frankly right now Leafa is the only one who has been offering.

The other option just escorting her to the ambush and then leave her to die doesn't sound like him either. Did he not make a point that he's not going to let party members die on him? I don't think he'd see her there and then say "have fun dying, see you." Getting involved with him caused her a lot of trouble, the least he can do is follow this through. It's not like he has a plan to get up that tree so a detour could lead to some much needed help.

Right now Kirito doesn't have a plan so much as simply having a goal. Find out if Asuna is at the top of that tree or not. Could go on his own, but seems like it'd be slow going especially since he'd be stuck having to risk his body getting taken out when he inevitably has to log out and eat. While going with Leafa he can help out a friend, maybe get information from leaders of groups who might have more information about getting up that tree, and keep what help he does have right now.

Can always just treat it as part of how SAO changed him. You have a friend in trouble, you help them out. It's how you stay alive in that kind of world.

Besides we forget the most important reason. What kind of example is he setting for Yui if he just leaves Leafa to get killed in that ambush? His respectability is always on shaky footing after that "joke" he pulled earlier .

[TheBeater]

I liked every episode released until now, the only thing bothers me is that Asuna knowing the password to that door locking her, where do she go, its too high and if she falls, she dies and what happens if she dies. Does her condition in hospital turns worse or she respawns in her home city !?

[Methuselah]

Asuna is in a situation where if she escapes that door, she'd be caught no matter what as Sugou(?) is basically a Game Master with all the codes and resources at his disposal.

Asuna is being very wise and courageous during this past 2 months - she ENDURED. She held her self esteem and dignity as Sugou harasses her verbally and physically. That's the strength in which Asuna is characterized throughout the serious.

This also begs the question as to why so many of us fans(?) are raging with the fact that they SEEM to think Asuna turned into a fragile princess that is in need of a rescue?

She is in a dilema where NO MATTER WHAT she does on her own the captive will always have the lead because SHE IS IN A GAME in which the captive is the GAME MASTER.

Asuna did everything right in from the start and it was to endure and NEVER submit to his wilms and him wanting to have sex. She never gave in to the torment in order to have a few hours of days of peace. Other hostages would. They'd either be submissive to get some sense of peace, lose hope, or commit suicide. Asuna did neither of that and even went as far as taking the course of memorizing the password in which WHEN/IF that opportunity presents itself, she'd use it.

Anyways, I'm basically saying that this Asuna is what we all know and love. A timid, shy, anti-social girl from EPISODE 1 to a self-deciplined, resolved, loving, outspoken, brave woman that fought alongside Kirito and was Vice President of the Knights of Blood.

Leave Asuna alone!!! XD

[Divini]

@Methuselah - I don't think people have a problem with Asuna herself; Rather they have a problem with the author that put her into that situation...

[Methuselah]

Originally Posted by Divini

@Methuselah - I don't think people have a problem with Asuna herself; Rather they have a problem with the author that put her into that situation...

I HATE the author for putting her in such a situation. Though I've come to accept that as outrageous as it is, it at least made sense. Who Asuna was back in the day was timid and not willing to talk, yet have this sense where she wants to grow out of her shell during episode one. She is someone I could imagine as a daughter that couldn't say anything to her father or at least gain acknowledgement from him even when it's a complaint - a complaint about Sugou's harassments on her even.

She probably used this game as a way to escape and try changing herself to become stronger (as she crossed her arms after her cloak was unveiled and the boss was slain during Episode 1).

[Rising Dragon]

Fun fact: in Chrono Cross, a Spriggan can take on the form of a creature they've slain in battle. So it's interesting that Kirito did exactly that in this episode.

[Dengar]

I'm kind of enjoying her captivity moments. All the conditions for a breakdown are met, but it doesn't happen.

[Crontica]

I really need to ask, why are you guys such in a rush for him to race towards the world tree as soon as possible? Consequence or not ALO is clearly not kind enough for you to race towards the end game with only a few trinkets to support you let alone comrades.

If an entire ingame population could barely scratch the surface of that world tree what makes you think that Kirito can do it single handedly?

Kirito could join a high ranking team just so can he can get closer to the goal but then he'd have to deal with the backstabbing that comes later if the grand prize ever comes within a sizable reach.

This troublesome dilemma could easily be solved if he could get in touch with a hacker but of course this isn't Yureka.

No matter which way you spin it gathering a proper team and resources to challenge the world tree is going to take time, whether he will make it before the deadline time will only tell.

[erneiz_hyde]

Originally Posted by Crontica

snip

The complains are not really about getting to rush Kirito to the top ASAP, it's about Kirito not showing enough urgency on the matter.
===

You know, for some reason I'm now getting this strange thought that Kirito is portrayed as this mysterious guy with hidden agendas and is doing things to set his plan in motion, and ultimately to get everything falls into place in the end just as planned, King of Bandit Jing-style.

Kirito seemingly not showing too much concern over Asuna is probably because of this confidence that everything will work out just as planned.

[Dengar]

Then what do you want him to do? Agonize every waking minute and never get anything done?

The fact that he keeps is eyes focused forward only shows that he fully intends to get things done.

[Methuselah]

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

The complains are not really about getting to rush Kirito to the top ASAP, it's about Kirito not showing enough urgency on the matter.
===

You know, for some reason I'm now getting this strange thought that Kirito is portrayed as this mysterious guy with hidden agendas and is doing things to set his plan in motion, and ultimately to get everything falls into place in the end just as planned, King of Bandit Jing-style.

Kirito seemingly not showing too much concern over Asuna is probably because of this confidence that everything will work out just as planned.

I think he acts exactly how he acts when he was napping near a tree during Episode 5. Asuna would criticize him for not caring enough, but he would say that "he is living the moment right here."

He is not putting uncessary stress on himself and try to take advantage of the situation that can help him move forward; such as helping a faction in hopes(?) of allying with them to tackle the World Tree?

[erneiz_hyde]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Then what do you want him to do? Agonize every waking minute and never get anything done?

The fact that he keeps is eyes focused forward only shows that he fully intends to get things done.

Don't be such a dick. He does NOT have to be on the opposite end of the spectrum, merely show just a little bit more hint of his urgency.

Someone complain the soup is not salty enough and someone else poured a whole jar of salt. It's annoying.

Originally Posted by Methuselah

He is not putting uncessary stress on himself and try to take advantage of the situation that can help him move forward; such as helping a faction in hopes(?) of allying with them to tackle the World Tree?

Agreed because it's pretty much what I'm saying, minus that Kirito has probably factored in the helping factions thingy as part of his overall plan to save Asuna. "Just as Planned"

He did this with Silica once, why not now.

[Znail]

Well, this isn't the last episode of the series so we may get to see Kirito show some urgency sooner or later?

[Ray]

I loved this episode. Dat bridge battle.

Salamanders are cool. They're definitely my favourite race. I'd definitely roll one if I could play ALO. *deep sigh*

Eh, that seemed more like a transformation than an illusion; nevertheless, it was still awesome.

Originally Posted by Dr. Casey

There's certain elements of storytelling (or any other form of art) that can be judged objectively, but saying that Sword Art Online in its entirety is objectively mediocre, point blank, and that any apprasial of the series more positive than yours is factually incorrect, just comes across to me as being controlling.

This, so damn much.

[kitten320]

Nice transformation, looks like SAO has left its trauma on him,

[Akka]

Originally Posted by Oroboro

It has NOTHING to do with the fact that it's "Just a game" and everything to do with the fact that Kirito isn't the kind of person who would betray his friends, to completely screw someone over after they've been nothing but friendly and selflessly willing to help you.

You seriously think that scene should've gone "Lyfa: Kirito, if you want to kill me and join the Salamanders, you can. " "Kirito: Okay! *Stab*"?

Originally Posted by justinstrife

This x 1000

Some of the people posting here, want Kirito to go out of character. That's not going to happen as we've had 19 episodes to establish the good guy that he is who also plays by the rules when possible.

Sorry , but this is dowright ridiculous.

Kirito's philosophy (basically : "don't be an a-hole just because you can get away with it") is, of course, spot-on. I happen to agree that the world would be much better if everyone stuck to it.

But it still doesn't change that it's only about a game with no serious consequences on one side, and a VERY SERIOUS situation on the other. It's absurd to compare someone being "out of character" when there is such a discreptancy between two situation. Basically, this ep is trying to make us feel the pressure about some game-related event, while there is the life of someone on the line elsewhere. It just comes of as... grotesque.

I was sure pissed as hell when some guy ganked me in WoW for the lolz. Ganking someone for the hell of it is certainly a dickish move.
But if someone had a daughter missing and ganking me could help to get information about her situation ? It would actually be only sane thing to do, regardless of being usually nice nice - in fact, what would be criminally dumb would be "no, I can't kill your avatar in a video game because that's not nice". Seriously...

As a side note, I find this the situation of this speech a bit ridiculous considering how much FUN he had just before "killing" opponents, showing he perfectly know how trivial it is to be "killed" in this game.
In fact, I could have totally went with the "PTSD" way, with him unable to kill people "for fun" due to long-lasting and understandable trauma after SAO (in fact, I would have much preferred the show to go down this route, there is far too LITTLE trauma from people having lived this ordeal). It would be kind of a broken mind, and rather relatable.

I could also have went along the "planning" idea, with him thinking "if I help them, I get TWO races as allies, that's a good plan".

But the whole dive into fairyland show him FAR too light-hearted and easily distracted for someone who has his wife life on the line. He should at least show some angst - or the serie make it clearer that he's only putting a façade.

[Oroboro]

... An odd thing to bring up again so late in the game.

I dunno if you've seen the rest of the series yet, but

Spoiler for future ep spoilers:

Kirito's carefree attitude comes back to bit him in the ass later.

But nothing changes the fact that Kirito isn't the type of person who will hurt his friends for his own personal gain. Especially for a SLIGHT chance that the other side might be a little better to help you in your quest to find the source of a blurry photograph of your wife. I know it's hard to seperate audience and character viewpoints sometimes, but Kirito's reason for looking is based on some really flimsy evidence, and there's no indication from his pov that his quest is anything more than a fools errand to distract him from his powerlessness IRL. (It of course, all works out in the end, because fiction, but still.)

Asuna's life may be on the line, but he doesn't know that.

[Akka]

Originally Posted by Oroboro

... An odd thing to bring up again so late in the game.

Well, it's actually pretty "not late" for me, as I usually see series years after they are released ^^
I rarely see series which aren't already complete, as I hate to have to wait for the next week

But my entire point was that the scales are so disproportionate that the "betrayal" of people in a game is just a non-issue, just like if someone fall in the water and there is a rope next to you, you'll just take it and throw the end to the person who has fallen, and you will certainly not think of it as "rude" or "a theft" at this time (while you would think that if you'd just take the rope in a different situation).

And yes he has only flimsy evidence at that point, but that's not making his behaviour any more logical.

First, he's (supposed to be) in a very stressful and rather desperate situation. When you're under such pressure, the reality is that you simply don't care about irrelevant side stories. It's just not realistic to see him bantering and playing around, regardless of it being what drives the plot forward or not (it WOULD be realistic if everything was a plan, and as such he actually HAS his mind on the issue at hant, but even if it's the case, it's not properly shown in the last few episodes).

Second, if he's not even sure Asuna is up there, then on the contrary he should be even MORE pressed for time to check if it's the case - because if it's not, then all the time spent in ALO is just wasted.
It's actually counter-productive to use the "he isn't certain Asuna is here" as an argument to rationnalize his apparent carefree behaviour, because it actually is even more illogical for him to do so in that case.

I think what we have here is simply a case of bad adaptation or sloppy writing.