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Old 2014-05-09, 00:55   Link #33721
Fireminer
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Should we remind you that our General Secretary is pro-China, our President stands in the middle, and our Prime Minister is pro-America?

Anyway, the intact of our border is one of the top, if not the biggest, point in political. Sure, we won't hope for any of the "big players" to help us. Still, it won't be an easy ride for China. The only problem is: Do the leaders have the guts to take the action?
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Old 2014-05-09, 01:43   Link #33722
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireminer View Post
Should we remind you that our General Secretary is pro-China, our President stands in the middle, and our Prime Minister is pro-America?

Anyway, the intact of our border is one of the top, if not the biggest, point in political. Sure, we won't hope for any of the "big players" to help us. Still, it won't be an easy ride for China. The only problem is: Do the leaders have the guts to take the action?
As you made clear, Vietnam was not an obvious friend OR foe of China. So this hostile move from China risks generating animosity it didn't need to have.

I mean, I understand if China wants to argue with the Koreans or the Japanese over borders, it is almost expected. But an argument with Vietnam just seems a bit too much all at once.
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Old 2014-05-09, 02:50   Link #33723
KiraYamatoFan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
I mean, I understand if China wants to argue with the Koreans or the Japanese over borders, it is almost expected. But an argument with Vietnam just seems a bit too much all at once.
If we put up the picture, China has territorial issues with almost all their most well-known neighbors: Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Philippines, Vietnam and India. By acting with a self-righteous attitude as they do, this won't end well for China.

The fact that China is now getting at odds with a country that was mostly indifferent to them until the last year, it is just plain stupid.
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Old 2014-05-09, 04:11   Link #33724
risingstar3110
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It is the case of 'the strong do what they can, and the weak do what they must'e. China really is provoking some responses this time, and there is no doubt who is in the wrong.


This's strange, as normally they only just throw things up, when they want to divert public attention away from a local incidence. But i haven't watched the news enough to guess what is this national issue. The bomb terrorist on Western China perhaps ?

What i fear however, is the general weak response from US and Europe on the Crimea's incident have inspired China to go for their own "sea grab". Things may escalate fast here
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Old 2014-05-09, 04:17   Link #33725
SaintessHeart
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Please start fighting. I want to see how well the SAF does as compared to the other local militaries.
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Old 2014-05-09, 05:38   Link #33726
Fireminer
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Singapore Air Force or what?
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Old 2014-05-09, 05:43   Link #33727
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireminer View Post
Singapore Air Force or what?
That is RSAF. I am talking about the entire armed forces.

It should make Boeing a good buy.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2014-05-09, 07:27   Link #33728
Fireminer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
That is RSAF. I am talking about the entire armed forces.

It should make Boeing a good buy.
How do you plan for the F-15SG to fly all the way from your bases to here?

If happen, it will be a sea-air war. Hope that they won't bring in the Liaoning.
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Old 2014-05-09, 10:30   Link #33729
maplehurry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110
What i fear however, is the general weak response from US and Europe on the Crimea's incident have inspired China to go for their own "sea grab". Things may escalate fast here
Pretty much this... US had assured Japan before on Senkaku, but Obama had to reassure Japan again after the Crimea incident.

My impression is that China believed they can "fix" the relationship later but they want those oils now.
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Old 2014-05-09, 13:24   Link #33730
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
This's strange, as normally they only just throw things up, when they want to divert public attention away from a local incidence. But i haven't watched the news enough to guess what is this national issue. The bomb terrorist on Western China perhaps ?
Officially, it is because China is actually trying to dig for oil RIGHT NOW. As in, they are literally drilling in ocean territory that Vietnam consider theirs.

So if there is nothing else that pops up, China's direct aim is to simply take over an oil field assuming Vietnam fold.

So this isn't about saving face or drawing lines on a map anymore; this is actual argument over resources.
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Old 2014-05-09, 22:14   Link #33731
PzIVf3
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Chinese fishers face charges for crime in PH



Quote:
MANILA, Philippines (UPDATED) – Philippine government agencies will file charges of environmental crime against the 11 Chinese fishermen arrested off the coast of Palawan on Tuesday, May 6.

The fishermen were found with about 500 live and dead turtles in their boat when they were intercepted by the Philippine National Police (PNP) maritime group on Hasa-Hasa Shoal (Half Moon Shoal), 60 nautical miles from Palawan.
Quote:
The planned filing of charges is expected to draw another howl from China, which had already deemed the arrest as a "premeditated provocative act" deliberately done by Philippine authorities to create more tension in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea).

China claims that Hasa-Hasa Shoal, which it calls Banyue Reef, is part of its territory.
Quote:
"What we did is not a provocative action (but) based on international law. Chinese fishermen violated our maritime laws," Foreign Affairs Spokesman Charles Jose said in an interview with ANC on Thursday.
http://www.rappler.com/nation/57621-...nese-fishermen
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Old 2014-05-10, 00:04   Link #33732
risingstar3110
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Of course Chinese government will deny the charge, as obviously the turtle caught themselves into the fishermen boats, not the other way around
Expect Chinese spokesman to soon accuses the turtles on carrying provocative acts in violation to China’s sovereign rights.


But no seriously, there is nothing personal toward Chinese AS members, but i would like to hear from you guys on your government actions/ explanations over the incidents. Was they blaming the Philippines framing those fishermen with live turtle? And Vietnamese boats ramming their ships against Chinese oil drilling operation and accidentally injured themselves? Or it's censored away form the news?
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Old 2014-05-10, 00:15   Link #33733
KiraYamatoFan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
But no seriously, there is nothing personal toward Chinese AS members, but i would like to hear from you guys on your government actions/ explanations over the incidents. Was they blaming the Philippines framing those fishermen with live turtle? And Vietnamese boats ramming their ships against Chinese oil drilling operation and accidentally injured themselves? Or it's censored away form the news?
No disrespect, but you're wasting your time. Every time we asked anything from them, they have been doing nothing short of defending their government.
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Old 2014-05-10, 00:33   Link #33734
risingstar3110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
No disrespect, but you're wasting your time. Every time we asked anything from them, they have been doing nothing short of defending their government.
I expects just that but if you want to defend, you have to have any ground to stand on.

I means if this map is correct:

We don't even need maths to see:
  1. how far the "disputable area" is from China mainland comparing to Vietnam
  2. how outrageous China claims on South China Sea is, in respect toward Vietnam and the Philippines

Geologically it's clearly who in the wrong. Historically, what kind of ancient resources that needed China to own such deep sea areas. Which not only so far away from their mainland, and obviously should be in no interest to Chinese sovereignty until modern day of offshore drilling. Culturally, unless part of Chinese culture is to row hundred miles southward and take a dip with the fishes in the middle of nowhere as their life ritual.
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Old 2014-05-10, 00:42   Link #33735
KiraYamatoFan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
I means if this map is correct:

We don't even need maths to see:
  1. how far the "disputable area" is from China mainland comparing to Vietnam
  2. how outrageous China claims on South China Sea is, in respect toward Vietnam and the Philippines

Geologically it's clearly who in the wrong. Historically, what kind of ancient resources that needed China to own such deep sea areas. Which not only so far away from their mainland, and obviously should be in no interest to Chinese sovereignty until modern day of offshore drilling.
Indeed, this map says it all. This kind of aggressive behavior for a fistful of resources is scandalous. Can you imagine the international uproar if, for example, the US wanted to set up an oil rig just within Cuban waters and then send a few USCGCs in there because those waters are also that close to Florida?

I wandered around the internet for reactions on this and people are not calling the PRC very kindly over this case. The word "thief" is quite commonly used to describe the whole situation with that offshore drilling stuff.
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Old 2014-05-10, 08:12   Link #33736
Roger Rambo
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You know, frankly this is why I never see China politically supplanting America as the Global super power. How are you supposed to be projecting global influence when you can't even make nice with...practically ANYONE in your backyard?
Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
It is the case of 'the strong do what they can, and the weak do what they must'e. China really is provoking some responses this time, and there is no doubt who is in the wrong.
That's a dangerous maxim to pursue when several of your neighbors are advanced enough to hypothetically join the nuclear club. Saber rattling becomes a bit of a pointless display when firearms start getting brandished.
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Old 2014-05-10, 08:44   Link #33737
maplehurry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
I expects just that but if you want to defend, you have to have any ground to stand on.

I means if this map is correct:
We don't even need maths to see:
  1. how far the "disputable area" is from China mainland comparing to Vietnam
  2. how outrageous China claims on South China Sea is, in respect toward Vietnam and the Philippines
Well, it's not so outrageous when it's called South CHINA Sea !!

/obvkidding

But yea, it's a pretty outrageous claim from China when you look at the map...
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Old 2014-05-10, 08:52   Link #33738
HasuMasu
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Some of China's neighbours have stopped calling it that.
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Old 2014-05-10, 08:55   Link #33739
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
You know, frankly this is why I never see China politically supplanting America as the Global super power. How are you supposed to be projecting global influence when you can't even make nice with...practically ANYONE in your backyard?
That's a dangerous maxim to pursue when several of your neighbors are advanced enough to hypothetically join the nuclear club. Saber rattling becomes a bit of a pointless display when firearms start getting brandished.
Use of force. Like what US did in the Mideast.

Except this time is trade benefits instead of 2000lbs of democracy.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2014-05-10, 10:05   Link #33740
SeijiSensei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
Can you imagine the international uproar if, for example, the US wanted to set up an oil rig just within Cuban waters and then send a few USCGCs in there because those waters are also that close to Florida?
I've wondered more about what might transpire were the Chinese to start constructing rigs off Cuba's or Venezuela's coasts and bringing in Chinese warships to defend them. That would constitute the biggest challenge to the Monroe Doctrine in memory.

Apparently the Cuban fields were deemed not worth the investment.

Here's a column by one of the NY Times's staff on the situation in the Western Pacific worth reading, if only for the references to John Mearsheimer's work: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/09/op...-doctrine.html.

Quote:
HO CHI MINH CITY, Vietnam — In the new edition of his classic “The Tragedy of Great Power Politics,” John Mearsheimer of the University of Chicago makes a powerful case for the inevitability of war in Asia as China rises:

“My argument in a nutshell is that if China continues to grow economically, it will attempt to dominate Asia the way the United States dominates the Western Hemisphere. The United States, however, will go to enormous lengths to prevent China from achieving regional hegemony. Most of Beijing’s neighbors, including India, Japan, Singapore, South Korea, Russia and Vietnam, will join with the United States to contain Chinese power. The result will be an intense security competition with considerable potential for war.”
A.F.K. Organski's work on the "power transition" suggests the real destabilizing threat is likely to come from smaller, threatened powers like Vietnam or the Philippines.
Quote:
There is one last point that must be raised about the balance of power. According to the theory, the danger of aggression is to be expected from the stronger nation. A powerful nation intent on maximizing its power is expected to press its advantage and make war upon its neighbors if it ever succeeds in achieving a clear preponderance of power. Here again, the facts do not back up the theory. Nations with preponderant power have indeed dominated their neighbors, but they have not been the ones to start the major wars that have marked recent history. This role has fallen almost without exception to the weaker side. The theory of the balance of power provides no possible explanation for Germany's action in the two World Wars or for Japan's attack upon the United States.
As an American, I am especially concerned about the Philippines since we have a commitment to its defense, one recently renewed by Hillary Clinton when she visited Manila as Secretary of State in 2011. Weaker actors with strong protectors do not always act wisely when threatened.
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