(L+CR) Ping Pong (NoitaminA)

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by BloodyKitty

Looking at how China is still able to smile in an accepting way even after defeat, I have hopes for him to climb back up again. Also, I love how his coach encourages him, not as a coach, but as a friend.

He definitely has the qualities required to climb back up, but will he allowed able to do so? If the higher ups in China decide to stop paying for his tuition, lodging, etc; it's all over for him. He'll have no choice but to go back to his mom in China and give up on being a professional ping pong player.

[BloodyKitty]

Originally Posted by Kanon

He definitely has the qualities required to climb back up, but will he allowed able to do so? If the higher ups in China decide to stop paying for his tuition, lodging, etc; it's all over for him. He'll have no choice but to go back to his mom in China and give up on being a professional ping pong player.

That is also just a "what if". Surely his ping pong career is on the line right now, but like the coach said his life has just started (which might or might not include winning nonstop in ping pong). This anime heads in a focus on how a sport itself should not be all there is to a person's life (just like Smile's viewpoint on how he doesn't want to see somebody else suffer just because of a sport, and how the ping pong coaches remark about him), so I anticipate that the story might somehow bounce back with some characters' change of view, but still in that focus.

[cyth]

Originally Posted by BloodyKitty

Looking at how China is still able to smile in an accepting way even after defeat, I have hopes for him to climb back up again. Also, I love how his coach encourages him, not as a coach, but as a friend.

It's more than just defeat. In the first few episodes he was yapping about how all these Japanese players don't have talent, then he is forced to acknowledge Smile as the better player, also Dragon completely destroys him. He should have realized that compared to those two he has no talent to speak of. To me, he always seemed like a guy who climbed to where he was through practice and practice alone, mistaking results for talent. That alone makes his situation even more tragic. His own words: "Maybe it's more of a pity to believe in a talent you don't have." Ouch!

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Kanon

He definitely has the qualities required to climb back up, but will he allowed able to do so? If the higher ups in China decide to stop paying for his tuition, lodging, etc; it's all over for him. He'll have no choice but to go back to his mom in China and give up on being a professional ping pong player.

No, for all intents and purposes, Kong is an exchange student so unless Tsujidou calls off the deal he's staying in Japan. He's there because the Tsujidou school needed help with their ping pong team, they presumably asked their Chinese partners to send someone, and they sent him (as a kind of punishment). Tsujidou has no reason to send him back (he's not there to win competitions for them), and his Chinese team has no reason to call him back since that would go against the entire point of sending him there. So as much as he hates it, he's stuck in Japan for the time being.

Originally Posted by cyth

It's more than just defeat. In the first few episodes he was yapping about how all these Japanese players don't have talent, then he is forced to acknowledge Smile as the better player, also Dragon completely destroys him. He should have realized that compared to those two he has no talent to speak of. To me, he always seemed like a guy who climbed to where he was through practice and practice alone, mistaking results for talent. That alone makes his situation even more tragic. His own words: "Maybe it's more of a pity to believe in a talent you don't have." Ouch!

Don't forget, though, that he immediately recognized Smile as a great player (which is why he wanted to play him when they first met, not Peko), and maybe he could've put up a better fight against Dragon if he had been in a better state of mind after the Smile fight. I think people are too hard on him just because he lost - just look at who he lost to. He lost to the guy who steamrolled through everyone and won the tournament, and that happened after Smile, a genius player, shattered his self-confidence. But before that he wiped the floor with Peko within minutes of meeting him - sure, Akuma beat Peko, too, but Akuma had all his childhood to study Peko, and a lifetime of grudge to fuel him. Kong had no such thing, he was just that much better than Peko. Sure, Peko is also a genius player and I'm sure that his defeat in this tournament will motivate him to become even better, but the fact that Kong beat him like that shows that Kong is not just all talk.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

No, for all intents and purposes, Kong is an exchange student so unless Tsujidou calls off the deal he's staying in Japan. He's there because the Tsujidou school needed help with their ping pong team, they presumably asked their Chinese partners to send someone, and they sent him (as a kind of punishment). Tsujidou has no reason to send him back (he's not there to win competitions for them), and his Chinese team has no reason to call him back since that would go against the entire point of sending him there. So as much as he hates it, he's stuck in Japan for the time being.

I assumed he was there to win competitions, so I thought the school might send him back at the end of the year given his poor results. That's good, then. He still has a chance to prove his worth. Why did Kong and even his coach seem to have completely given up then? It's not over yet! He should fight until the end!

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Kanon

I assumed he was there to win competitions, so I thought the school might send him back at the end of the year given his poor results. That's good, then. He still has a chance to prove his worth. Why did Kong and even his coach seem to have completely given up then? It's not over yet! He should fight until the end!

Well, he's at Tsujidou to help their ping pong team pull itself together. If he also wins competitions then it's all the better, but from what the Tsujidou coach said in episode 1, I assume he mainly functions a sort of assistant coach who brings his experience as an "elite" Chinese player and motivates the rest of the team. Of course they could send him back at the end of the year, but I assume the deal is for one school year anyway.

Anyway, they "gave up" because the tournament was over and he didn't get to go on to the national tournament, and lost his chance to "clear" his name. So as far as he's concerned, it's over, at least for now.

[Reckoner]

I don't believe this is the end of the line for Kong's character in the story. As a ping pong player perhaps it is, but I still feel he has a role to play here. He's my favorite character here alongside Smile, so I hope that wasn't the end.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Great episode, with some good character pieces and nice narrative pacing. But something is still preventing me from feeling intimate with any of the characters: I'm being given rich information about who they are but I have trouble feeling it with any depth. I come closest with China, perhaps because he speaks Chinese and because his situation is so stark. He escaped that destroyed Shanghai slum by his table tennis, and now he feels as if he doesn't even have that. The smile is more rueful than accepting, perhaps.

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

It's very interesting to compare Yuasa's work here with Shinbou, as Yuasa is using unorthodox artwork, stills and "trickery" (if you will) rather than a lavish animation budget. Of late, Shinbou's trickery is merely trickery for its own sake - the stuff he does in one series could just as easily be stuffed into the next, because it's generic Shinbou noise. It's intended to be a distraction, and that's what it is. Yuasa's stylized work here isn't intended to distract - it's intended to focus, and that's exactly what it does.

The world is divided into Shinbou fans and Shinbou haters. In the opinion of this Shinbou fan, many people just do not get his work. Shinbou reuses imagery the way a painter would. As I've said before, there is lots of seeming repetition in the work of a great artist like Jackson Pollock or Monet. Shinbou is the master of visual and aural rhythms. The images and their rhythms produce emotional, comic, narrative, and purely aesthetic effects. If you don't feel them, you don't feel them. But some people do -- or realize they do.

Saying Yuasa focuses and Shinbou distracts is personal opinion. Much as I enjoyed watching the courts shimmy and shiver, it is reasonable to be distracted by that aspect of Yuasa's style. I'm not saying this is bad and Shinbou is good. Both are good. I love Shinbou's work, and this is the most I have ever enjoyed Yuasa's. He is clearly an animation wonder, although he lets his delight run away with him sometimes -- as Shinbou does, too.

[Cloudedmind]

It hurt to watch Kong get defeated like that, I also hope it's not the last we see of him. Those moments between him and his coach were great though.


As it was mentioned Peco got a taste of some bitter humble pie, and with our parting image of him hopefully this will motivate him to improve himself.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Great episode, with some good character pieces and nice narrative pacing. But something is still preventing me from feeling intimate with any of the characters: I'm being given rich information about who they are but I have trouble feeling it with any depth.

I personally "feel" the main characters quite deeply (or at least I think so), but in any case this is just the beginning for them, development-wise. It's from now that they should get really interesting as they (hopefully) work out their issues and find their way.

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

I come closest with China, perhaps because he speaks Chinese and because his situation is so stark. He escaped that destroyed Shanghai slum by his table tennis, and now he feels as if he doesn't even have that. The smile is more rueful than accepting, perhaps.

I don't speak Chinese and have zero Chinese cultural roots, but yes, I also feel the most for him, perhaps because his personal drama is the heaviest. In a way, it's no wonder that he feels older than Smile and Peko despite being about the same age (much like Dragon, but in a different way), he has so much behind him and now he's watching it all crash and burn. I keep rewatching his match with Dragon, it's just so masterfully done - the way he starts with low spirits (being perfectly aware that Smile lost on purpose), the way Dragon completely overpowers him, how he succumbs to panic, and then that moment of clarity when he looks at his coach - that moment is perhaps the best one in the entire episode. And then the post-match quiet reflection, with the airplane leaving without him.

The Akuma vs Peko match was also great in its own way, but the sheer drama in the China vs Dragon match made for perhaps the most emotional moments so far.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

The world is divided into Shinbou fans and Shinbou haters. In the opinion of this Shinbou fan, many people just do not get his work. Shinbou reuses imagery the way a painter would. As I've said before, there is lots of seeming repetition in the work of a great artist like Jackson Pollock or Monet. Shinbou is the master of visual and aural rhythms. The images and their rhythms produce emotional, comic, narrative, and purely aesthetic effects. If you don't feel them, you don't feel them. But some people do -- or realize they do.

Saying Yuasa focuses and Shinbou distracts is personal opinion. Much as I enjoyed watching the courts shimmy and shiver, it is reasonable to be distracted by that aspect of Yuasa's style. I'm not saying this is bad and Shinbou is good. Both are good. I love Shinbou's work, and this is the most I have ever enjoyed Yuasa's. He is clearly an animation wonder, although he lets his delight run away with him sometimes -- as Shinbou does, too.

I understand that any criticism in these days gets one branded as a "hater", but as always the world inconveniently doesn't work that way.

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

No, for all intents and purposes, Kong is an exchange student so unless Tsujidou calls off the deal he's staying in Japan. He's there because the Tsujidou school needed help with their ping pong team, they presumably asked their Chinese partners to send someone, and they sent him (as a kind of punishment). Tsujidou has no reason to send him back (he's not there to win competitions for them), and his Chinese team has no reason to call him back since that would go against the entire point of sending him there. So as much as he hates it, he's stuck in Japan for the time being.

As for the school thing, it's obviously a transparent cover to effectively use Wenge as a professional table tennis player to rejuvenate their program. As long as it was mutually beneficial, the school and the Chinese authorities have no reason to complain. But with Wenge apparently unable to achieve the objectives either of the school or his government (that he prove himself enough to reclaim a spot in the national program) either side could pull the plug at a moment's notice and likely would.

[Flower]

Finally got around to watching ep 4, and it was another great ep for me.

Pencil me in alongside those who were quite impressed with China and his coach as they were portrayed as characters, people, etc. in this ep. I thought it was very effectively done.

Also it is obvious that Smile was the one who was responsible for the defeat of China, and it seems the latter (and perhaps even his coach) knew it. It is one thing to be utterly thrashed by an opponent through raw power like what Dragon did to him, but it is another thing to realize you have been manipulated and played off of by another to the point of being undermined - a sort of "soft totalitarianism", if you will.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

As for the school thing, it's obviously a transparent cover to effectively use Wenge as a professional table tennis player to rejuvenate their program. As long as it was mutually beneficial, the school and the Chinese authorities have no reason to complain. But with Wenge apparently unable to achieve the objectives either of the school or his government (that he prove himself enough to reclaim a spot in the national program) either side could pull the plug at a moment's notice and likely would.

It's an actual goal, for the school and a team that needs it. Ultimately he's there to help the school's team perform better, not to win in individual tournaments. And regardless of his performance in the individual tournament, he hasn't been there long enough to prove anything re: the school team. I see no reason why they would want to send him back, and I see no reason why, after getting defeated like that, the Chinese would want him back. And it's Tsujidou that pays for his stay in Japan, after all.

But anyway, at this point this is speculation. We'll see what happens. I still say he's definitely not out of the story yet, it would just make no sense to drop him now, just when he gets really interesting. Maybe he'll stop playing, maybe he won't return into tournaments, but for the time being he's staying. (Actually, I think he could be a pretty good coach. He's had a good role model in his own coach, and we've seen that he's very good at the actual technical part, analyzing, finding flaws and positives, spotting talent, etc. Now if he could only get over himself to find the value in helping others.)

[cyth]

I haven't read the manga, but I believe Wenge was just a punching bag to get the plot started. The anime was just kind enough to make him look like a character fit for the main story.

[RollingPenguin]

Originally Posted by cyth

I haven't read the manga, but I believe Wenge was just a punching bag to get the plot started. The anime was just kind enough to make him look like a character fit for the main story.

Well the answer is yes and no.The anime certainly expanded his role and made his character more sympathetic.But even in manga ,he is still a decently written character.

[Esclair]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

I don't speak Chinese and have zero Chinese cultural roots, but yes, I also feel the most for him, perhaps because his personal drama is the heaviest. In a way, it's no wonder that he feels older than Smile and Peko despite being about the same age (much like Dragon, but in a different way), he has so much behind him and now he's watching it all crash and burn. I keep rewatching his match with Dragon, it's just so masterfully done - the way he starts with low spirits (being perfectly aware that Smile lost on purpose), the way Dragon completely overpowers him, how he succumbs to panic, and then that moment of clarity when he looks at his coach - that moment is perhaps the best one in the entire episode. And then the post-match quiet reflection, with the airplane leaving without him.

The Akuma vs Peko match was also great in its own way, but the sheer drama in the China vs Dragon match made for perhaps the most emotional moments so far.

You pretty much said everything I wanted to say. It was an awesome sequence.

Anyways, there's a young female character! Who'd thought it'd be the 'Monster's cousin (maybe gf?). The coach shouting that their relationship is pure was hilarious.

[cleo]

Fantastic episode. I'll be sad if this was indeed the last we've seen of Wenge, although it looked a bit like a weight had been lifted from his shoulders at the end.
I'm looking forward to seeing more Dragon too. He's all 'losing is not an option', but spends all that time on the toilet. He must be under a lot of pressure.

[Jazzrat]

You don't have to have any chinese root or influence to appreciate China because he's the fallen champion type common to most sports based story. It would be awesome if they can keep it going along with smile/peco/kazama, i would love to see how China gets back on his feet.

Though having said that, does anyone find the coach's dialogue with China after the match a bit stiff in both writing and delivery? The chinese (mandarin) have been pretty good for most part so the end kinda sounded off to me.

[Esclair]

Originally Posted by Jazzrat

You don't have to have any chinese root or influence to appreciate China because he's the fallen champion type common to most sports based story. It would be awesome if they can keep it going along with smile/peco/kazama, i would love to see how China gets back on his feet.

Though having said that, does anyone find the coach's dialogue with China after the match a bit stiff in both writing and delivery? The chinese (mandarin) have been pretty good for most part so the end kinda sounded off to me.

Wenge has always been great, but the coach has always been a bit stiff. I'm guessing he's not as experienced of a voice actor, so he couldn't really get the right tone for that scene. He was still using his coaching voice.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Esclair

Wenge has always been great, but the coach has always been a bit stiff. I'm guessing he's not as experienced of a voice actor, so he couldn't really get the right tone for that scene. He was still using his coaching voice.

By the way, it seems that the guy who voices China is not a pro voice actor either, although he's done some voiceovers and some acting. At the official site he says this is his first voice acting job.