Claymore Chapter 98

[Solace]

Originally Posted by Awakened

When Clare awaken, she might look like Teresa.

I'm picturing this and my mind is blown.

[SagaraSouske]

How about when Clare fully awakens it will be a twin goddess statue with wings with one half looking like Clare and other looking like Teresa and when the 4 eyes open, they split into two and bang, Clare and Teresa invincible combo.

[Shiek927]

How about she just stay gone?

Seriously, the Teresa fascination is long-overdue to die. Claire is her own person and the mixture of many people now, not just one.

If Claire awakens, I want it to be her own unique form with the only thing carrying over is Teresa's power, and that's it. Little references, like a halo or wings, fine, but nothing further. I don't want her growing long hair or doing little smiles.

The dead should just stay dead.

[clarakiss~]

Originally Posted by Shiek927

How about she just stay gone?

Seriously, the Teresa fascination is long-overdue to die. Claire is her own person and the mixture of many people now, not just one.

If Claire awakens, I want it to be her own unique form with the only thing carrying over is Teresa's power, and that's it. Little references, like a halo or wings, fine, but nothing further. I don't want her growing long hair or doing little smiles.

The dead should just stay dead.

atta' boy shieky. if clare awakens i'd want her to be in her own true form and not this 'teresa influence mumbo jumbo' u.u

[Shiek927]

Originally Posted by clarakiss~

atta' boy shieky. if clare awakens i'd want her to be in her own true form and not this 'teresa influence mumbo jumbo' u.u

I'm just sick of Teresa; I've never been a fan of her, ever. She's a good character, but god am I sick of people obsessing over her, and I'm sick of all these horrific fanfics that people make to bring her back in some stupid fashion when, let me remind the ignorant, she's inside of Claire now.

Authors seemingly forget that part every single time.

If she is this important, why did she die? Why if her actions are SO important, and Claire's entire life and destiny are so intertwined with Teresa, why does Claire even exists? Is Claire nothing more then Teresa's avatar? Does Claire have no actual importance?

I'm not trying to attack Yagi; rather, I'm attacking the people who blow-up her importance and like her too much. So far in the story, their isn't much, but god am I gonna be mad if I see so much as a faint smile coming from Claire.

I say again: let the dead stay dead

[clarakiss~]

Originally Posted by Shiek927

I'm just sick of Teresa; I've never been a fan of her, ever. She's a good character, but god am I sick of people obsessing over her, and I'm sick of all these horrific fanfics that people make to bring her back in some stupid fashion when, let me remind the ignorant, she's inside of Claire now.

Authors seemingly forget that part every single time.

If she is this important, why did she die? Why if her actions are SO important, and Claire's entire life and destiny are so intertwined with Teresa, why does Claire even exists? Is Claire nothing more then Teresa's avatar? Does Claire have no actual importance?

I'm not trying to attack Yagi; rather, I'm attacking the people who blow-up her importance and like her too much. So far in the story, their isn't much, but god am I gonna be mad if I see so much as a faint smile coming from Claire.

I say again: let the dead stay dead

well said shieky. i absolutely feel the same way.

[Shiek927]

Originally Posted by clarakiss~

well said shieky. i absolutely feel the same way.

Just had to get that out of my system

[SagaraSouske]

I guess no one gets Sarcasm

On another note, Avatar is an absolutely must see movie and do not watch it if it is not in 3D. I don't even want to watch another movie that is not 3D anymore coming out of it.

[Shiek927]

I guess no one gets Sarcasm

Roflmao, now now, I laughed at the idea, I didn't just ignore it

[Vinak]

@HegemonKhan

Soi fong?

-------
personally, I want to see Teresa again in another dream sequence or one of those "mind meld" (or soul link) things Clare went through with Raphaela.

[Cyclone]

Well, a lot of the topics have been covered in the last 2 days, so I'll just hit the few remaining ones.

Originally Posted by Gangsta Spanksta

geez :P I'm getting drawn into a debate here. But the way you make this sound, mass migration, sounds a bit misleading to me. I would think of it more as if .5 degrees makes you feel uncomfortable then you may subconsciously move away from the .5 degrees. And such an area could move a little each year. Well you just make it sound like it happens all at once for many, many miles, whereas it could've been happening during decades.

You know what's more uncomfortable than 0.5 degree temp changes? Walking north hundreds of miles through dense forest.
Use you common sense - would you notice a < 1 degree average temperature change over the course of your life if no one told you about it?

don't know why grizzlies and polar bears are moving into each others territories. To be honest, it being a bit of a science/nature story made it more interesting to me than any political cause. The global warming theory, the explanation about how each bear lived traditionally in different areas, and so forth made sense, and seems to be in the majority of the articles I've read at different places. I've not really gotten any explanation to the phenomenon on recent trends from you, except how anyone who believes it is global warming is an idiot.

Use common sense for God's sake! The only difference between you and a climate scientist is that the climate scientist sat through a few more classes. It does not make their IQ any higher. In fact, anyone who actually desires to sit through that stuff... well nevermind.

Look around you - global warming has been blamed for everything from heatwaves and droughts to ice storms and record low temperatures. It should raise some suspicions that not every one of those events was properly attributed, no?
So look at the polar bear breeding issue. I'm not saying it's not happening (I couldn't care less as long as it happens a good long ways from here). Is global warming a likely explanation for it (regardless of the google hit count)? Global warming is supposed to be shrinking the polar bear habitat. Therefore, polar bears would be trying to stay in their habitat would be moving further north - not south (making their population denser [and hunting all their food sources out, leading to the polar bears dying of hunger (or so the normal story goes)]).
Grizzly bears have no reason to move further north - their habitat is not severely affected (due to global warming at least).
To get these populations to mix in increasing numbers - as you say - you need either the grizzlys moving north, or the polar bears moving south. Global warming influences would have the polar bears moving north (and faster than the grizzlys) - so that's out. So what's left are other factors (shrinking Grizzly habitat [for anyone who has seen the interior of B.C., this is very funny - but I digress], or changes affecting the polar bear population which force them to go south [cold, search for food, etc] ). Which one is correct - dunno, don't care (honestly - I don't care what's causing them). What should be plainly obvious though is that none of the causes are a direct result of global warming.

If I tell you polar bears are migrating south because they have suddenly developed a passion for playing horseshoes, you'd laugh at me for saying nonsense. Afford the things you read the same kindness with respect to a smell test please - it's a healthy thing to do. That's all I'm asking.

---
Back to Claymore:

I have to disagree with you. It all goes back to one of your favorite arcs in the Manga. The deal that Riful made with Clare, that she would tell Clare the name of the Abyssal of the North, if Clare could land one hit. There is a bit of logic involved here. If What you say is true, that in human form that an AB's physiology is human, then if Clare would catch Riful by surprise and land a hit on her, then Riful would be dead, since standard rules of humans apply. Now I think Riful was caught off guard when Clare hit her with the sword. The mere fact that Riful body reacted the way that it did, indicates that Riful's human form is anything other than human. You can not believe that Riful got caught off guard and believe that Riful physiology is human and not have conflicting believes due to logic.

That's right - to believe that Riful was caught "off gaurd" when she was hit by Clare, is not at all credible to me. Riful didn't move once through out the entire fight - not once did she try to evade anything. It was always Duff who stopped Clare with Riful just sitting there. When Riful saved Duff, it was obvious she wanted to end the encounter, and letting herself be hit was the best way to wrap it up nicely. In short, she expected that hit from Clare (and every other hit too if Duff was late) - so it was pretty much meaningless.

When Riful was not expecting a hit - like with the ZACSs - she took genuine damage and had to regenerate. When she expected it, her ribbons cut the ZACs.

I doubt that very much, because an author just avoiding a topic, trying to ignore it, well, is just bad authorship. Yagi is a good writer; he had to take this into consideration. Even I, even though I might not want to touch it would take that into consideration if I was writing something. I've known quite a few writers. The really good ones really research every little detail. I had professor who wrote his own novels and ghost wrote for others, who would say neglecting the possibility, ignoring it, avoiding it, no thinking about it and taking it into consideration while you write would be bad writing. I have too much respect for Yagi to think that he simply pretending it doesn't exist, and we have to take into consideration that we don't see any, don't hear a bout any, and all the other supporting evidence in the story that it is more likely than not that ABs can't reproduce. Heck, if Yagi would bring in a baby AB now, without proper setup, it would create all kinds of plausibility issues in the writing. You can't just have the world of Claymore as it is now, and then drop in two ABs having a baby, without proper explanation that covers every little plot hole it could potentially create now.

Just because something exists, does not necessarily mean the author wants to write about it. Or would taking time out from the Pricilla/Raciella fight now be in order to cover the postal strike in Rabona, the municipal election in Toriro, or the tax revolt in Stora? Denying something obvious that exists is bad writing - choosing not to write about something is normal.

As for the whole "we haven't seen an AB/Claymore child, so they can't exist" argument - how do you know we haven't seen one? We have no idea how quick a AB baby would mature and thus look like any other AB (with Teresa being Warrior #182 and all, and if we assume at least 2/3 of the warriors died either in battle, executions or black cards, we've seen enough ABs already to conclude Clare's generation has been unnaturally busy...[of course this could just be a collorary of the "never count bullets in a western or action film" rule]). Nor have we seen enough ABs to eliminate the possibility to of kids. As for Claymore children - can you tell me with any certainty what's up with Miata? For all we know, the very thing the absense of which you claim is proof that claymores cannot have children, is right under our noses this whole time.

[Vinak]

Originally Posted by Cyclone

You know what's more uncomfortable than 0.5 degree temp changes? Walking north hundreds of miles through dense forest.
Use you common sense - would you notice a < 1 degree average temperature change over the course of your life if no one told you about it?

+/- 1 degree of global temperatures does not equal 1 degree difference in any single location. Temperatures can vary radically.

I don't even want to comment on the rest...

If you want a better understanding of why a species may decide to move elsewhere, you are better off looking at its food sources and its preferred habitat.

[Arturro]

Originally Posted by Cyclone

As for the whole "we haven't seen an AB/Claymore child, so they can't exist" argument - how do you know we haven't seen one? We have no idea how quick a AB baby would mature and thus look like any other AB (with Teresa being Warrior #182 and all, and if we assume at least 2/3 of the warriors died either in battle, executions or black cards, we've seen enough ABs already to conclude Clare's generation has been unnaturally busy...[of course this could just be a collorary of the "never count bullets in a western or action film" rule]). Nor have we seen enough ABs to eliminate the possibility to of kids. As for Claymore children - can you tell me with any certainty what's up with Miata? For all we know, the very thing the absense of which you claim is proof that claymores cannot have children, is right under our noses this whole time.

According to Miria org are creating claymore warriors on Island for about 100 years. I think it's longer period, but assume she is right. Most of Claymores dies during fights with yoma or are killed by their own. We have 78 generations, each about 49 warriors (maybe less considering that best wariors live longer that one generation). Lets assume (I'm ignoring first male generation) about 5% of warriors awaken. In Clare generation (as we know) only Ophelia awaken by herself, Katea were forced by Riful to awaken. So 78 * 0,05 * 49 = 187 ABs. http://www.onemanga.com/Claymore/25/27/ Miria was on 7 AB hunts, Deneve was on 2 hunts. Most of high ranked warriors had experience in hunting ABs - obviously Ophelia, Galatea, Flora, Jean and Undine had. IMHO we could easily assume that each single number warrior have simmilar experience to Miria (5 or more hunts), while for 10-20 it's simmilar to Deneve, so 1 to 3 hunts. So each generation have hunted about 70 Abs. All existing Abs should be hunted within 3 generations.
In other words awakening of warriors is not enough to be a source of awakened beings.
In real word in first generation of hybrids males are infertile while females (most of them) are fertile, sometimes male hybrids are fertile only after 4 or 5 generations. As Agatha has shown, ABs are interested in sex. I easily could imagine female ABs catching a men (human), rape him, then consume, just to found after a few months that she is pregnant. It could also explain why there is no small Rifuls or small Daufs, he is infertile.

[Yorae_paladin1]

Originally Posted by Arturro

According to Miria org are creating claymore warriors on Island for about 100 years. I think it's longer period, but assume she is right. Most of Claymores dies during fights with yoma or are killed by their own. We have 78 generations, each about 49 warriors (maybe less considering that best wariors live longer that one generation). Lets assume (I'm ignoring first male generation) about 5% of warriors awaken. In Clare generation (as we know) only Ophelia awaken by herself, Katea were forced by Riful to awaken. So 78 * 0,05 * 49 = 187 ABs. http://www.onemanga.com/Claymore/25/27/ Miria was on 7 AB hunts, Deneve was on 2 hunts. Most of high ranked warriors had experience in hunting ABs - obviously Ophelia, Galatea, Flora, Jean and Undine had. IMHO we could easily assume that each single number warrior have simmilar experience to Miria (5 or more hunts), while for 10-20 it's simmilar to Deneve, so 1 to 3 hunts. So each generation have hunted about 70 Abs. All existing Abs should be hunted within 3 generations.
In other words awakening of warriors is not enough to be a source of awakened beings.
In real word in first generation of hybrids males are infertile while females (most of them) are fertile, sometimes male hybrids are fertile only after 4 or 5 generations. As Agatha has shown, ABs are interested in sex. I easily could imagine female ABs catching a men (human), rape him, then consume, just to found after a few months that she is pregnant. It could also explain why there is no small Rifuls or small Daufs, he is infertile.

If that was the case there would a much larger population of AB's and there isn't theres barely a handful

[anselfir]

teresa is obviously not going to disappear.

[Arturro]

Originally Posted by Yorae_paladin1

If that was the case there would a much larger population of AB's and there isn't theres barely a handful

We don't know fertility rate of female AB, also it's not easy to get pregnant with a rape victim. There is obviously too many ABs considering the number of Claymore warriors.

[Cyclone]

You're missing quite a lot Hegy.
The Slasher's arc was Miria's 11th hunt. Galatea was sent on many tough missions after the Riful Incident. Ophelia was famous for killing ABs. If we take 7 AB hunts per single digit as average, that's 60+ dead ABs. Couple this with the 40-50+ ABs we have seen killed already... that's a lot of ABs.

And up to and including Teresa, the organization only made 182 Claymores (Teresa == #182). There are ways a Claymore dies: battle, execution, black card, and awakening. Since we are led to believe that battle and blackcard deaths are common, not much more than a third of Claymores awaken (~60 by Teresa's time).

With 47 males + ~60 before Teresa + ~20 or so since teresa, there should be hardly any ABs left - and that's going with the ridiculous assumption that AB hunts started in Clare's time.

Clearly there are too many ABs - the question is whether the cause is mundane (i.e. "never count bullets") or there is some other factor involved which is causing us to undercount ABs drastically.

[MonsieurRosseau]

I haven't seen evidence that there are still a large number of Voracious Eaters around. In the past seven years, the population was probably decimated, and that doesn't even include the bunch killed by Alicia/Beth and Dauf/Riful. If you include all the past hunts and the recent bunch of killings, I'd think there are very few remaining awakeneds.

Also, does anyone else think that the long fast made Priscilla somehow more powerful? It seems a bit odd.

[MisterJB]

Originally Posted by Arturro

I easily could imagine female ABs catching a men (human), rape him, then consume, just to found after a few months that she is pregnant.

Female ABs wouldn't exactly need to rape a human male. They could just approach him in human form, have sex and then eat him.

It could also explain why there is no small Rifuls or small Daufs, he is infertile.

Personally, I believe that it is because Awakening preserves the age of the Claymore that Awakened. Since Riful Awakened before she reached puberty, her body never became capable of reproduction.

[Shiek927]

Also, does anyone else think that the long fast made Priscilla somehow more powerful? It seems a bit odd.

No, not really. If she is, it's hard to tell, but it wouldn't make sense if she was more powerful.

She has enough power as it is, she doesn't need anymore.

Personally, I believe that it is because Awakening preserves the age of the Claymore that Awakened. Since Riful Awakened before she reached puberty, her body never became capable of reproduction.

My belief as well, considering how much I went into that Riful would have children if she could.