Medaka Box [Manga]

[Takigashima]

@sol.
What do you mean kuma is the one who can fix medakas beast?
It has been stated since her birth that she was not a normal girl, she was a beast from the start. Kuma's role in it would have been to turn the beast into a feral one (inner), where as zen turned it into a cute and cuddly beast (outer appearance).

Kuma being able to "fix" the feral beast is not possible, cause he himself would have to go from a minus to a plus, kuma doesn't have the personality to want to help her as she is not in his weak category. Zen also couldn't fix the beast or the saint either, but as he has done before, he can cage it.

Zen and kuma are gonna have to be unlikely partners in crime if they want to do something about medaka.

[kenjtr]

After reading countless opinions abaut zenkichi and medaka one question ocurred to me ; Why cant zenkichi escape Medakaverse ( medaka universe = World that goes everything according to Medakas will ) . From what i see Zenkichi doesnt beleng to Medakaverse cause he is a "light novel hero" who has accidenly fall for a "shounen hero" Medaka . As Ajimu said this manga isnt a light novel so when Zenkichi doesnt give Medaka what she wants , he is history for her . in all light novels main hero usually sucks but even so gets heroine or heroines cause in these kinds of stories heroines usually looks for afection from others , but medaka isnt like that she doesnt need anyone she is professor X , Batman and Superman also a loner .

if Medaka never dragged Zenkichi all his life , Zenkichi probably would have a harem life there is no doupt . From what i see Medaka pushed Zenkichi loneliness and unhappy life , Zenkichi is bounded by Medakas invisible chains and even he admits he is his dog . Medaka fans see Zenkichi rude one cause they think he is her dog so he have to answer her expectations but is there really a door out for Zenkichi ? What i mean is can Zenkichi escape medakas claws ?

Medaka has absolutely no intencion of letting Zenkichi go cause she owns him , even Zenkichis mother left her son to mercy of Medaka which is so cruel in my idea . Does anyone remember story Ajimu told to kumagawa ( its abaut masters broke their slaves bones till slaves begs them to die ) from what i see Medaka is doing same thing to Zenkichi but Zenkichi doesnt give up and that gives medaka pleasure .

Medaka wants to rule people and i guess thats clear to everyone so escaping Medaka has 3 ways 1- unthrone her and be king yourself ( Zenkichi is trying ) 2- go another kingdom ( ajimu gave that option to zenkichi ) 3- make your own kingdom . From what i see zenkichi is going wrong way cause best possible action here is 3 if not 2 but no matter what you musnt do 1 . Zenkichi is trying to be revolutinary but if things go wrong , youll lose everything which is so risky and after revolutions no one likes old king so Medaka will be in a tight spot etc..

if i were zenkichi i would escape that school without looking back ( lol ) i also think Zenkichi doesnt love medaka , he just dont know better . Medaka isnt just a love interest of Zenkichi , she is fountain of his life and Zenkichi dont know what to do if he lets Medaka go . We can also think that like slave-master relatonship ( even if you cut the chain of a slave they wont escape ) , just look at that medaka beats him pushes him to limits etc... but he still chooses her ( stockholm sendrome ) . Medaka sistematcly abused Zenkichi till he was 2 years old so he is conditioned that he cant escape from Medaka even at the beginnig he says that himself .

i also dont understand why people think Medaka is a good person , so if a dictator comes to your country and tells you how to live your life and some small things gets better will you love him/her ? i really hope someone saves Zenkichi cause as normal he is there is no hope for him

[Xellos-_^]

Medaka isn’t meant to be a hero though

Medaka isn't a Shounan Jump hero but she fits perfectly with the Greek Heroes. Like the Greek heroes of old she is a beast.

“Kurokami”, “Black God”, an epithet of Kali--the Hindu goddess of death and destruction

i was wondering when someone would bring up her family name.

I’ve spoken before about Medaka being a matroyshka doll structure with her “Saint” persona on the outside, her “Beast” persona inside, and her “Human” persona inside further still.

looking back at Medaka's falshback as a child does Medaka even have a Human persona? Was she ever human in the first place?

In comes the three year old Kumagawa Misogi, who tells her “life is meaningless”, implanting her with the despair of reality. The seed of Medaka’s inner beast is established.

i think the Beast was always there and Kumagawa just gave woke it up.

[Guernsey]

Medaka is a both a beast and a saint? I am not sure how anyone save for Ajimu can even relate to her. Medaka is a larger than life figure, her dynamic and forceful personality makes her difficult to relate to.

[kenjtr]

i really wonder why Zenkichi doesnt use parasite seeing on Medaka , i think he probably afraids cause he wouldnt be able to handle it . it would be too cool if Zenkichi use parasite seeing on Medaka and starts to vomit because of dreadful sight and escapes after that

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by kenjtr

i really wonder why Zenkichi doesnt use parasite seeing on Medaka , i think he probably afraids cause he wouldnt be able to handle it . it would be too cool if Zenkichi use parasite seeing on Medaka and starts to vomit because of dreadful sight and escapes after that

Aijmu see people as Things. No difference between a person and a chair.
Form Medaka's flashback as a child i think she sees people as pets. like a dog or cat.

I think you are right, Zenki is definitely afraid of what he would find if he look through Medaka's eyes. And If he isn't afraid of he will see, he should be.

[sungreentakeo]

Sorry guys, another wall of text. I don't even have time to clean it up, since I'm writing it in between working.

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

As I said, again, there is no character war. During the start of the series there is zero reason to become pitted in camps of Zenkichi vs. Medaka. They are on the same side for 115 chapters. The only issues the anime viewers will have to care about is who they like more, or whether they like either of them at all. You’re being paranoid and reading into things.

I remember the first time I posted on here that you made such a huge fuss because I was critical of Medaka in my analysis. It was right after the clock tower event. And what I was saying didn't have anything to do with bias or some Medaka-hate-conspiracy, but was a long, too long, reasoned character essay and on the recent plot developments, which dramatically changed how I viewed Medaka and Zenkichi. You went on and on about the ancient forum wars early in the manga where all the plebeians rattled their sabers against Medaka for no good reason, and so basically the defenders of the manga thought it was appropriate to get over-defensive in response.

Then you spent loads of time trolling and baiting people along these lines when Medaka did something that annoyed people for a legitimate reason. I remember when you were trying to defend Medaka's behavior after the clock tower; the commentary got so biased it was just ridiculous. Also, after it started morphing into a sort of 'Zenkichi making Medaka look bad thing' there was the little comments like, "Zenkichi just wanted to get into Medaka's pants." It's obvious when you're trying to throw mud. I like it when people tell me interesting things; I don't care for dealing with their axes to grind. If someone is a dedicated fan of a character, I think it's more respect-worthy to have the position that you'll take your character's vinegar with their honey rather than trying to defend your character against their legitimate faults. The latter is something along the lines of shooting the messenger of bad news.

The most common defense I heard was "everybody was biased and bitching against Medaka and the manga. There had been so many posts like that in the past that it flooded the forums and those people were a pain and needed to be put in their place." Of course I'm going to mock that attitude when I came into the middle of the warzone with honest intentions. Especially when it's an irony that the reason why I was writing so much was because I was interested in the manga.

In the context of Medaka Box’s popularity itself as a series, there is no such thing as "Medaka's popularity" or "Zenkichi's popularity". The starting point of Medaka Box’s actual success as a manga began with Kumagawa. From the commercial aspect of the success of the anime, the lack of compelling narrative hooks and the weakness of Medaka Box’s recorded initial audience reaction was obviously the central focus of what we were talking about. The point of the discussion we were actually having was what kind of strategies the anime could use to maintain sufficient interest to get to the strong parts of the manga, and for my part my latest response was confessing my intention to cultivate sustained discussion/interest on this board through the rough early section of the narrative.

I'm talking about Medaka's popularity and Zenkichi's popularity and what causes it. It was a tangent and I labeled it. An explanation of why some people like one character or the other character. That's why I said it was a tangent.

I'm not buying into the idea that interest needs to be cultivated; you're interested in defending your favorite character.

As for the anime, I won't be commenting on the anime much whatsoever when people start discussing it and there is an obvious reason. It's years behind the manga. The anime will just catch up to the manga, if it's like almost every other anime out there. So, if you're interested in figuring things out, the anime is useless for that. You can watch it, but you already know it's going to happen.

It's not interesting to talk about for people who want to understand the story better, because there just isn't enough material.

Blinded though you seem to be in thinking that everything is about some sort of character war, you are aware of Medaka Box’s weak ToC rankings during its debut period, aren’t you? Further added, that for at least the first 11 chapters I myself thought that this manga (and Medaka herself) were shallow tripe completely devoid of merit, and that as Westlo mentioned until Kumagawa’s debut this thread was littered with detractors and predictions of the failure of the manga in general and there is plenty of reason to worry about the initial reception of the anime.

I didn't think it was 'shallow tripe'. I liked the first 11 chapters. Besides, if the manga is popular the anime will be popular, and the manga will become more popular. Even if they end up cancelling the anime, the manga will still get a popularity boost.

I never think of anything I read as shallow tripe. But I think I described pretty well why I thought many people would be turned off by Medaka Box because it trashed its expectations. When you're writing, building up the expectations and relying on the what people have seen in similar works is something you need to do to make something popular. You want something different, but not too different. I'd even argue that those expectations are going to be fulfilled, but basically I think that there weren't enough bones thrown to people who were looking something like History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi. It's ok to troll your readers, and you want to in order to build tension. Eventually they'll get frustrated and leave your readership though.

Medaka isn’t meant to be a hero though. There are two things which make Medaka great entertainment material: one, that she is a fucking monster, a loose cannon, such that once her engine gets going going overboard and not giving a fuck is her trademark; and two, that she gives fantastically lofty speeches about the nature of humanity and righteousness which while sounding great often seem to teeter on the edge of impossibility.

There are heroes are like that too, and you just described her as a 'parody' of the overpowered hero stereotype, because a parody takes things too far with unintended consequences.

But I'm not really comfortable with that characterization. It's pretty accurate because it pretty much models what she does, but I'm not completely sure why she does what she does. Also, I don't know if she's a loose cannon or not. It's been suggested that she's unorthodox, but I don't know if she is out of control. I'm not sure how she's changed from when she was stopped from killing Unzen. She may be the same person, and certainly that leads to believe me that she did kill her step-father. I can't be sure though that she's just been held back by the people around her, or if she's changed because of the people around her.

The heart of Medaka’s appeal, at least from an observer position is her instability--which always leaves things teetering on the edge of destruction (or at the very least great dynamism), befitting her last name, “Kurokami”, “Black God”, an epithet of Kali--the Hindu goddess of death and destruction.

I think this is an interesting comment. I'm not really sure though that she's unstable or she makes the things around her unstable. She's certainly about change. I don't know if it's quite appropriate to associate her with destruction either. Certainly though she creates tons of conflict and seems to cherish it; she even cherishes her enemies more than her allies.

The thing is that we really haven't learned that much about Medaka. I think this arc is where we finally see some resolutions.

That you're pulling hindu myth as a tie-in and namesake, but I don't see that anywhere else in the manga. It's just random. I haven't seen any evidence that's anything more than a coincidental comparison.

On a level it is the constant dynamism and growth of Medaka herself which makes her such an interesting character. The manner in which Medaka is a “subversion” is not in her very outermost layers of appearing to be perfect, or saintly, or good, or righteous, or all-capable; but rather in the revelation of her “true” face of an unchained beast, the very face of reality.

Actually her growth works her against her when it comes to interest. You know that she can always win so easily, so that makes her less interesting.

I think the idea of Medaka becoming 'unchained' as well as being unstoppable would be a nice plot twist for this arc. I'm still not convinced though that it would be appropriate to call that her 'true' side. She's also very rigorously self-controlled; she's shown lack of control before, but she's shown complete self control as well.

What are you supposed to call it when the supposed “hero”, up front and center, is revealed near the very beginning to be herself in fact potentially the greatest threat in the narrative? Medaka’s “perfection” is not really the question; at least, Medaka’s “perfection” is not the real starting place. The real starting place is the beast inside Medaka, which is manifested as outward perfection through her rational mind.

I think this is a thread of the story. This is not the only thread of the story. It also answers what sort of conflict could Zenkichi and Medaka get into. But this wasn't even what we were introduced to initially. What I was talking about still stands.

I think that you're reaching too far to say that Medaka is a beast with a filter. I don't know if that's the right way to think about it.


Remarking on the past couple of sections, you kinda missed my point and just went off. I was talking about stereotypes. She still fits. I explained what had been done with her character. Heroes of her type are strong. They're bigger than life. As for the hidden dark side, look at Naruto and the Kyuubi. There are far older stories too that are just like that. There are darker heroes like that; often great power is associated with dark or evil or chaotic forces. There are twists going on here; but so what? It still fits.

Medaka isn’t a parody of “the destined man from history born with the king's blood and the king's destiny”, because the story never pretends to be about Medaka becoming king (rather, she dethrones a king with a king’s destiny. How’s that? lol). What Medaka Box the narrative actually is is a story about a monster becoming human. Before anybody understood Medaka to be perfect (in a true sense; in a sense like realizing the limitless nature of her abnormality or Ajimu declaring her a “main character”), we understood her as a monster.

The destined man with the king's blood and the king's destiny is basically what a reference to the 'special' heroes. The person who is talented and so on. Obviously she doesn't go so far as to have the whole chosen one mythology or anything like that, but a hero like that doesn't necessarily need it. They just need to be acknowledged as special and unique in comparison to anyone else. Something that sets them apart and above. That's why I think abnormalities tie in so nicely with that idea. The person who has the ultimate ability and was determined by fate to a great destiny from their very conception. That is the archetypal character from historical works that developed into the stereotype that she's derived from. She's a special person, more special than anybody else. You completely missed my point; I'm not just talking about just manga or making a specific example.

Having the ability and having the destiny, I think that's where the idea for abnormalities came from. It was a reoccurring literary device that was pulled out and turned into an actual thing.

Separating her 'being a monster' and being perfect, that's an odd way of thinking.. She's not a monster in the bad sense; she's a monster in the intimidating sense. That's part of being perfect in the sense that perfect applies to Medaka.

A monster becoming human, that's an interesting way of thinking about it. But really, it doesn't nullify anything that I'm saying. It doesn't even clash. Whenever you have a story, you have multiple threads that are woven together... But still, I think that's a bit too strongly worded. It's not that she's a monster; it's that she has absolute capability and it separates her from the rest of humanity.

I put forth a theory, which is sourced from Medaka's memory of her childhood and Maguro's comment that nobody could ever teach her anything, that she never needed to depend on anyone. I've explained how it makes sense that would be related to the way she relates to the world. I think you're focusing too much on the beast comment and how intimidating she is, without explaining anything else or explaining what these things mean or how they came about.

Sorry. You have the first couple parts right: about Medaka Box being a setup for a generic shounen, about Zenkichi being a generic “male insert character”, about Nishio eventually blowing the lid off that scenario and shounen fans being disappointed. However, what you can actually take from this is that Nishio is not a generic shounen author. He really isn’t. Zenkichi as a conventional “male hero avatar” eventually becomes a grand platform for play; Kumagawa as equally a devotee and negation of shounen conventions enters as a voice piece for twisted satirical commentary; Ajimu debuts as an inconceivable villain flaunting the entire narrative with her meta-commentary; but through all these stages the “black god” remains the central thematic pillar for the development of the story. It’s not like the Flask Plan arc was about stopping the Flask Plan and defeating Miyakonojou; instead, the completion of the Flask Plan was about Medaka. It’s not like the Minus arc was about defending the Student Council from Kumagawa Misogi and reforming the Minuses; instead, the love and hatred of Kumagawa Misogi was about Medaka. And even now, it’s not like the Ajimu Najimi arc is about re-establishing Ajimu Najimi’s Flask Plan and making Zenkichi the main character; instead, even Zenkichi becoming the main character and the success of the Flask Plan is about Medaka.

That's interesting commentary on Medaka. I think that you're making a lot of assumptions that the manga hasn't shown us, but it's an interesting analysis. Her having multiple persona and different people being the sources of such are interesting ideas.

Also when you have events happen, it doesn't have one meaning; it has multiple meanings. It's not one or the other; it's usually both.

I'm talking about the thread of this story that is about Zenkichi and Medaka. I'm also, obviously, talking about the framework that the story introduces to you.

There's multiple things going on. You have the character development, plot development, relationship development, the conflicts, the fourth wall breaking commentary and so on. Is Medaka the center of the story? Yes, because she's the main character. She drives the plot forward. Is she at the center of the plot? Absolutely. Is the story about her? That's not exactly the right way to think about. I have read stories that are simple enough to say they are about a person, but usually they're pretty simple or they're a fictional biography. It's gotten to the point that Medaka isn't even getting that much page time.

But here's huge thread that you've ignored. Ajimu has been around forever. Ajimu has been influencing events all over the place, and it would make sense for her to have even influenced different characters meeting and being born and all sorts of things. She even built the school. At what point do you say that the story is actually about Ajimu and not Medaka. Medaka, in the context of Ajimu, is a tool. She's a tool for the flask plan. In fact, this whole scenario is. We're being clearly told that Medaka might no longer be the center of the story, and that Ajimu is planning a main character switch. You could easily say that the original progenitor of events is Ajimu.

Are there completely different and even tangential plot elements introduced? Yes.
Did the story change its direction and focus multiple times over the course of the manga? Yes.
Do different characters serve different purposes? Yes.
Do some characters serve different purposes at different times? Yes.
Do they have other purposes than what you're about about? Yes.
Did it ever stop being about Zenkichis and Medaka's relationship? No.
Did it ever stop being about Medaka's development? No.
Are these two elements contradictory? No.
Does anything you said disprove anything I was saying? No.

Basically you said, here's what I think the story is about. Medaka's development, Zenkichi's commentary and the relationship and even suggested future rivalry of Medaka and Zenkichi are all there. And you're saying that it's a one or the other contrast, you're just plain wrong. All of these elements and plot lines are all there at the same time.

You're saying things like this current arc about Zenkichi becoming main character through the flask plan and the success of the flask plan is about Medaka. Well, it's also about Ajimu. It's also about Zenkichi. It just depends on what perspective or thread you're trying to pull out. You could also say it's about

Or turn the Medaka-centrism on its head.... Medaka's development is actually and always has been about the flask plan. If you're going to talk about it in the order that plot elements are introduced, how do you know that Nishio didn't have the flask plan in mind from the very moment he created Medaka?

I would argue that character centrism is a far too simple a way to think about this story.

Zenkichi is in love with the external “perfect”, rational Medaka. He is trying to win her love by surpassing that outer Medaka. However, the outer Medaka is irrelevant because the true Medaka is the beast. Even if Zenkichi manages to win Medaka’s love and nominally usurp her main character position, that beast inside Medaka will remain at the core of the story. That is something which cannot be resolved via Zenkichi’s own efforts or his present capabilities.

We just know that Zenkichi is in love with Medaka. I've stipulated in the past that Zenkichi loves Medaka because she could do things that he can't. Ironically, this arc is about him becoming like that for Medaka in some way. In other words, he will reach a place where he can do something that Medaka cannot and probably nobody else can. He will become crucial to her in some way. I don't think that has anything to do with her being perfect and rational. Certainly Medaka II was perfect and rational. I think it's been hinted by the same event that he likes her because she cares about other people. If that's that what you're talking about, then it's probably true, but I think this whole 'external' thing is a bit off. I don't think Zenkichi and Medaka understand each other, but the Medaka that cares about other people is not the external Medaka and the Medaka that is uncontrollable emotions is not the internal Medaka. They're the same person.

You saying that Medaka has multiple sides, and that Zenkichi is in love with one side. But Medaka is really the beast, but and in anothe5 part of the post you say that deep down she even truer human side. You're also saying things like Zenkichi can't do anything about 'the beast'. You're just pulling things out of nowhere. It's interesting for to read, but again is it's not founded in anything in the manga. I'll comment on that more in the appropriate section.

Medaka calls herself a beast, but Ajimu calls Medaka a human. It's never really shown exactly what that means, only that it's dark, it melts you down, and it's something that a normal person could not stand or tolerate while remaining human.

My initial impression that it was the side effect of her abnormality. Remember when Oudo tried to take her abnormality and he thought he was melting? Well, Medaka's abnormality builds her up constantly, but I think the flip side of that is that it has to 'melt you down' first. Her abnormality destroys her as often as it reconstructs her. What I would have initially thought was that her abnormality is doing something bad to her, and that's why she calls herself a beast... And that her abnormality is something that a human being can't stand.

Here is some delicious speculah. I’ve spoken before about Medaka being a matroyshka doll structure with her “Saint” persona on the outside, her “Beast” persona inside, and her “Human” persona inside further still. Now, let’s play with the idea that it was Zenkichi by whom the Saint persona was created. This was when they were two years old, and through their relationship of sticking together, it has been maintained for 13 years. Okay. Now, let’s consider: what if the Beast persona was created too? Could this have happened? When could this have occurred? Well, let us think of Medaka’s beast (War Gode Mode)’s first appearance. That would’ve (presumably) been middle school, when Medaka first lost her sense against Kumagawa. However, along those lines, let’s go back further still. Zenkichi triggered Medaka’s Saint persona at the age of two. If the Beast persona is lower, it must have been shaped earlier still. Now, what was that famous line during the Student Council battles which Kumagawa threw out to Zenkichi? That’s right, “The one who met Medaka-chan first…was me.” Here is the proposal then: Medaka was a normal human girl, who just happened to have a completely broken abnormality. But she was still essentially just a little girl, feeling lonely because of her isolation and confused about the meaning of her existence. In comes the three year old Kumagawa Misogi, who tells her “life is meaningless”, implanting her with the despair of reality. The seed of Medaka’s inner beast is established. Next comes Zenkichi, who tells her “you must surely be someone who exists to make others happy”. Medaka is inspired; her Saint persona is built on top of her beast personality.

Who was it who gave birth to the monster inside Medaka? Kumagawa did. Who is it who can restore Medaka to humanity? That’s right, Kumagawa again, by at the same time overcoming his own cursed destiny.

It's an interesting idea, but as you admit you're clutching at straws here. There is no hint or evidence that Kumagawa created the 'beast' when she was two. There's no evidence that Kumagawa would purify her by becoming happy himself. There's no evidence that the 'beast' got weaker when he became a little bit happier.

You're trying too hard to aim for the rationale of Kumagawa + Medaka.

I probably have more legit yuri fan cred than you will ever have yourself, so don’t joke about me “limiting” Medaka to heterosexual relationships. I deeply look forward to Medaka and Ajimu’s beautiful friendship after Medaka has reformed her myself. But as the person to truly walk shoulder to shoulder beside her, Kumagawa is a better fit for countless thematic reasons.

lol, ok.

I already mentioned why I don't think Medaka isn't built for love for love right now. Also, that's a big statement that Kumagawa is better for Medaka for countless thematic reasons. Winner + loser, maybe? Medaka creates changes and Kumogawa also creates changes, and they both negate each other in how they create change?

A tangent, but the first idea is: where does this idea of a “getting what you need when you need it” part of Medaka’s abnormality come in the first place? There hasn’t been, to my estimation, any instance where this sort of mechanism was actually suggested.

I think that's one of the effects of her abnormality or perhaps just being the main character. She has a huge amount of luck, and looking at how abnormalities would effect events (the dice throwing example) it made sense to me. Things happen at the right time for her. I think her abnormality has more to do with what happens in her life than just her ability; it also effects events. If she's trying to do something (for instance, finding a purpose in life), an opportunity will fall into her lap especially if she's searching for it. When her ability can't provide success, her luck will.

Zenkichi: “I want to make Medaka as happy as she has made me.” Furthermore, if you want to bring unnatural influences or convenient manipulatives in as a factor, that determination was wrung out of him by Ajimu. I don’t think there’s an actual argument to be made that Zenkichi felt like he suffered chasing after Medaka. And the suggestion that he wasn’t there of his own will is precisely what I mean by denying him of agency.

That's what he says. That's what he feels. But, I have no doubt he would have been happier in a situation without her. My impression, from her first meeting with Zenkichi, is that Zenkichi is generally a person who makes himself happy. He didn't need Medaka for that. He would be happy without all the hardships by loving someone else, and he could have fallen in love with someone else.

Kumagawa doesn’t love Ajimu (no longer, anyway). This is obvious if you pay attention to Kumagawa’s “serious mode” reactions whenever an incident comes up regarding Ajimu. In his President battle introspection during the Minus arc, Kumagawa identified Ajimu as the woman he loved whom he obeyed (incidentally, pointing out at the same time that his love for Medaka was more significant). This can easily be linked to tidbits such as Kumagawa achieving a 100% approval rating while Ajimu was his vice-president, while Ajimu’s present status, as well as Kumagawa’s activities in his Good Loser oneshot, make it more than clear whether Kumagawa is “obeying” Ajimu any longer. Rather, Ajimu doesn’t quite seem so fond of Kumagawa anymore either while Kumagawa’s earlier reactions to the prospect of having to meet with her can be read as genuine hate or repulsion.

Ok. This was just a theory I was throwing out. I generally thought that Kumagawa loved and hated Ajimu. I saw the whole conflict between them as similar to Medaka and Zenkichi. I thought his opposition to her could draw a parallel. That's it.

Ajimu gave Zenkichi Parasite Seeing. The Election Management Committee’s vaccine was what awakened Zenkichi, while Kumagawa would have revived him if he had actually died anyway.

He never would have gotten in a fight in the first place if he hasn't met Medaka. You didn't dodge the point. As an aside, I don't understand why you are assuming that Kumagawa would have revived him either.

Zenkichi enjoys the scenario of being “cool”. Would he have received such opportunities or the strength to take advantage of them had he lead a normal existence?

Yes. In fact, it would be way easier to look cool if that's a core motivation of his. It's easier to look cool when you're around people who are on the same level. Looking pathetic comes from not being able to do anything. It's also in question if the reason why he wants to be cool is to impress Medaka.

“Effort” is subjective. There is no basis for claiming that Medaka puts in less effort than Zenkichi, only that Medaka’s return on that effort is (greatly) more substantial.

She can't put in more effort. The second she tries she has mastered something. She can't go out and train; it doesn't make any sense for her. I'm not saying that if Medaka tries to do something that she isn't trying.

In History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi, Kenichi trains all the time to get stronger. That justifies him being strong. He put a huge amount of 'effort', which is effort over time. He was diligent and he kept on working.

Medaka can't do that. As soon as she needs to do something, she's able to do it. So, yes, Zenkichi has put way more effort, meaning effort over time, into becoming strong than she has.

Zenkichi’s declaration of having no self-esteem was self-condemnation in relation to his realization of his true motives for staying with Medaka. Prior to that incident, Zenkichi had self-esteem enough to take on the likes of Munekata and Kumagawa; personally declare himself Medaka’s protector and guarddog; challenge Kumagawa for the Vice President spot during the orienteering treasure hunt; amongst what must certainly would be a great list of other things.

Regardless of how you decide to interpret what he's saying, whether he means he just lost his self-respect immediately or he's thrown away his own self respect chasing a woman or he's acknowledging that he's been fooling himself because he didn't want to confront that he was love with her, that's not the point. I even admitted that I was being poetic in a later post.

What I was doing was pointing out through a specific example where Zenkichi is in a situation that would crush someone's ego. A situation that someone would not want to subject themselves to. As I mentioned, it's a testament to the constitution of his mind that he's not suicidal, but that doesn't make his situation any less worse.

If there is a huge disaster and you don't panic, it doesn't mean that the disaster wasn't there. It also doesn't mean that you didn't suffer. Your reaction reflects your own character and fortitude. He made the best of a situation that he was not suited to, and the remarkable part of his character was a mind that never broke. It's not that he wasn't under strain.

[LeaD36]

^tfl;dr
if you're that into walltexting u should try writing fanfics

[Proto]

/me wonders when will people start talking about 131

You know, the new chapter.

[for3ver]

where the hell is my love-comedy...

that is all..

[osorito]

Why does it feel like Kumagawas lost was planned. All his members technically infiltrated the union including Kumagawa. How will his new infiltration affect the elections?

Spoiler for chapter 131:

But after re reading it again, it was Unzens last turn and his next disqualification but he made Tokemichi spin the roulette again without using his move. 'They won because they cheated?. Correct me if i'm wrong please.

Spoiler for chapter 131 2:

[DawnEmperor]

@Sol falling and Sungreentakeo

Can you guys accept that you have different interpretations?

[telamont]

Loved the chapter. You can always count on Kumagawa and Ajimu to deliver on unconventional strategies and screwy mind games whenever they show up. Part of the reason why I like them so much.

That last page really has me wondering though. What's the deal with Tachiarai? And apparently, losing was also part of Kumagawa's plan? What is the complete plan anyway? I was all set to get back to the so called "main plot" after this chapter too. But now I really don't want to. Which probably means Nisiosin will juts leave us with this semi-cliffhanger.

Is it odd that currently, I'm looking forward to the so called "side-show" much more than the "main plot" in this arc? Zenkichi is as straight forward as can be, I know what to expect. Medaka is content to just sit back and wait for now. For the moment, Ajimu and the "Kumagawa Box" show is my main source of entertainment in this manga. Even though this is nominally Zen's arc, I hope it won't shift focus back to him for at least a few more chapters.

[LeaD36]

^btw, there was no doubt about kumagawa losing, he has a 100% lossratio in the manga. The only thing he could ever win, time and time again, is the popularity poll.

[Kurosu]

Originally Posted by osorito

Why does it feel like Kumagawas lost was planned. All his members technically infiltrated the union including Kumagawa. How will his new infiltration affect the elections?

Spoiler for chapter 131:

But after re reading it again, it was Unzens last turn and his next disqualification but he made Tokemichi spin the roulette again without using his move. 'They won because they cheated?. Correct me if i'm wrong please.

Spoiler for chapter 131 2:

It was unzen's move, he laid down the card. The rule isn't he gets disqualified when he runs out of cards, it's when it's your turn and you have no cards to play. He made him spin it again, knowing full well that if it was his turn, he would lose. The whole point was whether they cheat or use underhanded tricks, he allows them because they're so boss. Yojirou didn't have a card that would be useable so she would lose should it be her turn.

[osorito]

Originally Posted by Kurosu

It was unzen's move, he laid down the card. The rule isn't he gets disqualified when he runs out of cards, it's when it's your turn and you have no cards to play. He made him spin it again, knowing full well that if it was his turn, he would lose. The whole point was whether they cheat or use underhanded tricks, he allows them because they're so boss. Yojirou didn't have a card that would be useable so she would lose should it be her turn.

Isn't it rule 12 that made him loose the moment he used his last card. They did figure out that rule 11 had been splited but they agree to the conditions from the very beggining.

[Kurosu]

Originally Posted by osorito

Isn't it rule 12 that made him loose the moment he used his last card. They did figure out that rule 11 had been splited but they agree to the conditions from the very beggining.

No rule 12 is you lose when it's your turn and you can't put out a card. You don't immediately lose when you run out, only when it's your turn and you can't put something down

[osorito]

Originally Posted by Kurosu

No rule 12 is you lose when it's your turn and you can't put out a card. You don't immediately lose when you run out, only when it's your turn and you can't put something down

You're probably right but when i read page 16 on cxcscans it made me believe that actually naked apron had managed to win the game

Spoiler for chapter 131:

[Kurosu]

Originally Posted by osorito

You're probably right but when i read page 16 on cxcscans it made me believe that actually naked apron had managed to win the game

Spoiler for chapter 131:

Yeah I think that's how it was made to seem on purpose but if you pay attention the game wasn't settled yet. That said I have a feeling a lot of people didn't care about the card game.

[osorito]

Originally Posted by Kurosu

Yeah I think that's how it was made to seem on purpose but if you pay attention the game wasn't settled yet. That said I have a feeling a lot of people didn't care about the card game.

Well returning to my other post, Kumagawas lost made him infiltrate the election management committee and the naked apron also infiltrated the other committees as well. They got a trojan horse under they're noses lol.