[Manga] Who is Tobi?

[Dengar]

You have it backwards. The surprise has already happened.

The reason for the mask, and the big reveal concerning his identity.

Is that he isn't Madara. This, combined with his continued mention of the fact that "He is no one.", opens up the possibility of him indeed, not being anyone important. At all. If my theory is correct, he is at best some random character who was briefly mentioned on the side.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Dengar

You have it backwards. The surprise has already happened.

The reason for the mask, and the big reveal concerning his identity.

Is that he isn't Madara. This, combined with his continued mention of the fact that "He is no one.", opens up the possibility of him indeed, not being anyone important. At all. If my theory is correct, he is at best some random character who was briefly mentioned on the side.

its true that madara being in the coffin was a surprise (even though it was what i thought from the time kabuto showed it to tobi). if that was all the surprise was meant for though, then naruto would have broken tobi's mask when they headbutted. instead, tobi's masked face remained which has allowed kakashi to get there which just feeds into obito theory.

also, when we saw a good portion of his unmasked face during the konan fight, he didnt really look like madara (plus the hair style was never right) so we were led to believe that if he was wholly madara he had changed his appearance anyway. picture edo-madara, then picture tobi's broken mask in the konan fight and put the two together. there's no similarity and we knew what madara looked like based on the statue at VotE and some flashbacks. him not looking like madara wasn't a surprise (your reason for the mask). it was him not 'being' madara (at least primarily) that was the surprise.

if the mask were just for the reason you suggest, then it doesn't really have much purpose

[Teru987]

you can get a hair cut to change it and he had long hair like madara before.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

if the mask were just for the reason you suggest, then it doesn't really have much purpose

Other than, you know, concealing his identity and thus the fact that he was not Madara >_>

I just don't get the Obito theory. Why would such a sweet kid want to destroy the world? Not to mention that he shouldn't know Madara since he was a kid well after Madara died.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Other than, you know, concealing his identity and thus the fact that he was not Madara >_>

I just don't get the Obito theory. Why would such a sweet kid want to destroy the world? Not to mention that he shouldn't know Madara since he was a kid well after Madara died.

you don't get the theory because you haven't read any of the posts about it apparently... in short, it states that madara is controlling obito's body and only a fragment of his original personality remains. before madara died he implanted his chakra into obito similar to what minato did to naruto. more info in the posts on the past few pages.

no one is saying it's concrete, but the evidence is more solid than for anything else. also many things will not make sense if it's not obito, like tobi never wanting/taking kakashi's eye when tobi is clearly an eye collector. why would a no name, never met anyone character feel anything for kakashi and not take his eye when it would clearly come in handy?

[Sasukemaru]

No itachisan, everybody has read the theory it just makes no sense. Why would tobi take kakashi's sharingan? He never bothered taking itachi's or sasuke's. Tobi is shown to be elderly under his mask, much more so then obito who would be kakashi's age. The obito theory is honestly dead, some ppl have trouble accepting that because i really dont know. Idc what theory is proven right or wrong which allows me and readers like me to look at it more objectively. But ppl who already picked a horse in the race cant. The obito theory has a zero percent chance based on factual evidence, but to ppl who want it to be true so bad base their evidence off what ifs. What if obito is somehow related to madara, what if the boulder didnt crush his eye. The whole obito theory is one big what if story, without one piece of factual evidence to support it.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Sasukemaru

No itachisan, everybody has read the theory it just makes no sense.

No sasukemaru, if someone read the theory they would not ask why obito would do it or bring up the fact that obito never met madara...

Tobi is shown to be elderly under his mask, much more so then obito who would be kakashi's age. The obito theory is honestly dead, some ppl have trouble accepting that because i really dont know. Idc what theory is proven right or wrong which allows me and readers like me to look at it more objectively. But ppl who already picked a horse in the race cant. The obito theory has a zero percent chance based on factual evidence, but to ppl who want it to be true so bad base their evidence off what ifs. What if obito is somehow related to madara, what if the boulder didnt crush his eye. The whole obito theory is one big what if story, without one piece of factual evidence to support it.

once again you write a long winded post about nothing, claiming you have all this proof against the theory and that it is dead and then offer no actual proof whatsoever...

[Sasukemaru]

I have offered proof time and time again why the theory has no basis in reality. However as obvious that is for anyone who has read my posts, it is really besides the point. You and all of the obito theory ppl are supposed to give evidence to support ur theory. There is not one single fact u can link to the obito theory, not one. The obito theory has actually become laughable at this point, and reads more like a fanfic then it does serious discussion.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Sasukemaru

I have offered proof time and time again why the theory has no basis in reality. However as obvious that is for anyone who has read my posts, it is really besides the point. You and all of the obito theory ppl are supposed to give evidence to support ur theory. There is not one single fact u can link to the obito theory, not one. The obito theory has actually become laughable at this point, and reads more like a fanfic then it does serious discussion.

and once again you write a bunch of nonsense, say you have proof and then mysteriously never offer it...

[Dengar]

I'm not here to fan the flames of your litlle feud btw.


Anyway, now at least I know of a possible theory of the "Why". I will still choose to think the theory is waaaay too far fetched though, and if you ask me it's still impossible. Especially since Madara's soul is obviously not "controlling" Tobi right now, since Madara is clearly busy fighting the Kazes and before that, was busy being dead.

By the way, I've never seen him attempt to take Kakashi's eye but hesitate, so I don't really see where that's coming from.

[TimeMask]

Originally Posted by Dengar

You have it backwards. The surprise has already happened.

The reason for the mask, and the big reveal concerning his identity.

Is that he isn't Madara. This, combined with his continued mention of the fact that "He is no one.", opens up the possibility of him indeed, not being anyone important. At all. If my theory is correct, he is at best some random character who was briefly mentioned on the side.

If Tobi is a new character then Kishi should have unmasked Tobi by now since there would be no need to make a big deal out of Tobi's identity if he was just a random dude in a mask.

So Tobi should be a character we've at least heard of and if he's not in his original body then he would be using the body of a Uchiha like Kagami or he could have brought Shisui's body back to life (using Zetsu parts?) and put his soul in it.

Shisui made it look like his eyes were crushed which would explain the odd wrinkle marks on Tobi's face if he was using Shisui's Resurrected body as a vessel.

[Dengar]

Again, it's backwards. What reason, in-universe, is there for Tobi to take off the mask? There is none. He is no one, after all.

I don't like going into meta for explanations. It's silly.

It's only a theory of mine, and I'm sticking to it until actual, in-universe evidence is presented. I don't mind being wrong, but I can't be talking things like "right" or "wrong" until there is actual evidence.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Dengar

I'm not here to fan the flames of your litlle feud btw.

I don't consider it a feud... I'd just like to hear what evidence against the theory there is, since I haven't seen any yet despite people claiming there is plenty of it

Anyway, now at least I know of a possible theory of the "Why". I will still choose to think the theory is waaaay too far fetched though, and if you ask me it's still impossible.

its very far-fetched, but so is controlling the power of a demon-fox, having your father implant his chakra into you to speak with you after he died, any ninjitsu or genjutsu techniques, any extreme taijutsu techs, etc...

Especially since Madara's soul is obviously not "controlling" Tobi right now, since Madara is clearly busy fighting the Kazes and before that, was busy being dead.

not his soul, but possibly his chakra. minato was able to speak with naruto despite his soul being sealed away.

By the way, I've never seen him attempt to take Kakashi's eye but hesitate, so I don't really see where that's coming from.

tobi has hundreds of sharingans. why would he not want a MS sharingan?

Originally Posted by Dengar

It's only a theory of mine, and I'm sticking to it until actual, in-universe evidence is presented. I don't mind being wrong, but I can't be talking things like "right" or "wrong" until there is actual evidence.

yea, that's cool. I just find obito theory the most fun to debate and I see a lot of hints for it. I don't mind being wrong, but I also never said it was absolutely going to happen. My only argument for it has been that it has the most hints for it out of any other theory brought up. Tobi could indeed be nobody we know, but I think that will be a bit flat after all this time.

[Dengar]

In my personal opinion, those hints you've produced countless times are mostly circumstantial, and flimsy at best.

What do mean "after all this time"? The reveal that Tobi wasn't madara only happened a few chapters ago.

[Teru987]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

I don't consider it a feud... I'd just like to hear what evidence against the theory there is, since I haven't seen any yet despite people claiming there is plenty of it

It has been show that there is evidence...

its very far-fetched, but so is controlling the power of a demon-fox, having your father implant his chakra into you to speak with you after he died, any ninjitsu or genjutsu techniques, any extreme taijutsu techs, etc...

No its not remember he was married to an Uzumaki they where the best at fūinjutsu. So its not far-fetched at all.

not his soul, but possibly his chakra. minato was able to speak with naruto despite his soul being sealed away.

But we was not controlling Naruto he was only there to tighten the seal if it were to come loose. He was just an illusion not in anyway controlling naruto.

tobi has hundreds of sharingans. why would he not want a MS sharingan?

He did have and MS sharingan remember he had Itachi's eyes

yea, that's cool. I just find obito theory the most fun to debate and I see a lot of hints for it. I don't mind being wrong, but I also never said it was absolutely going to happen. My only argument for it has been that it has the most hints for it out of any other theory brought up. Tobi could indeed be nobody we know, but I think that will be a bit flat after all this time.

Yes you have, you said that all others couldn't be right cause they did not have enough facts.

[Sasukemaru]

Itachisan ive produced a lot of evidence, in ur post responding to what i said yesterday u said the same thing, but that post was in response to a post i had saying tobi under his mask is shown to be older then kakashi who is obito's age lol. I have wrote countless reasons why tobi isnt obito, u just seem to have selective reading and choose not to notice it. All of ur "evidence", isnt factual at all. A theory has to be supported with concrete facts for it to be taken seriously. That is kind of the rule of a theory, when u come up with all of these what if scenarios it really shows the entire theory is baseless.

Btw, if madara implanted his chakra in obito, the kyuubi would respond to tobi with the same hostility as he did edo madara. Another obvious fact u will ignore while saying i produce no evidence.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Teru987

It has been show that there is evidence...

yet you cant name it. you just keep saying it exists... in your next post, site the evidence proving obito theory wrong please.

No its not remember he was married to an Uzumaki they where the best at fūinjutsu. So its not far-fetched at all.

my point is that the entire manga is far-fetched...

But we was not controlling Naruto he was only there to tighten the seal if it were to come loose. He was just an illusion not in anyway controlling naruto.

never said it was the same technique, just similar

He did have and MS sharingan remember he had Itachi's eyes

so then why collect hundreds of eyes if he already has a pair? when he was working on danzo's corpse he had a whole wall full of them. it stands to reason he would want as many as he could get hands on, especially one that is already MS activated

Yes you have, you said that all others couldn't be right cause they did not have enough facts.

nope, I said many times it could be a character we haven't met. i did in my last post even which apparently you didn't bother to read, and instead just responded to randomly...

Originally Posted by Sasukemaru

Itachisan ive produced a lot of evidence, in ur post responding to what i said yesterday u said the same thing, but that post was in response to a post i had saying tobi under his mask is shown to be older then kakashi who is obito's age lol. I have wrote countless reasons why tobi isnt obito, u just seem to have selective reading and choose not to notice it. All of ur "evidence", isnt factual at all. A theory has to be supported with concrete facts for it to be taken seriously. That is kind of the rule of a theory, when u come up with all of these what if scenarios it really shows the entire theory is baseless.

so you're evidence is that he looks too old? looks aren't a determining factor in naruto about anything. take tsunade, orochimaru or juugo for instance

Btw, if madara implanted his chakra in obito, the kyuubi would respond to tobi with the same hostility as he did edo madara. Another obvious fact u will ignore while saying i produce no evidence.

small amounts of chakra can't be detected. nobody ever sensed minato or kushina inside naruto for instance. or sasori inside yura as another example

Originally Posted by Dengar

In my personal opinion, those hints you've produced countless times are mostly circumstantial, and flimsy at best.

stronger than hints for him being someone else...

What do mean "after all this time"? The reveal that Tobi wasn't madara only happened a few chapters ago.

referring to how long tobi has been in the manga with a mask on of course

[Teru987]

If you read back to older post i already gave evidence proving obito theory wrong please. As well as other people have also pointed in past post. I dont get why you keep trying to say its obito when nothing points to it. It has never been hinted that Madara new Obito and was going to uses his body.

[Sasukemaru]

A small amount of chakra wouldn't be sufficient in reanimating a corpse. Not to mention if it was just a small amount he wouldn't have the power to control the 9 tails. Small amount, large amount, regardless of how u want to coin it it does not stand up the logic test. If it was 90/10 obito chakra he wouldn't be possessed i guess u could say by madara, he also wouldn't have the power to control the kyuubi, and the 4th and kakashi would have recognized his chakra by now. If he was 90/10 madara chakra, the kyuubi would have noticed it. The obito theory is dead, period.


Also u keep trying to make every excuse why this theory isn't dead, u make up a new story every week. Put a fork in it, your lil theory is done. You can create a million different scenarios to keep this theory on life support, but it's about time to pull the plug. If you're so interested in who tobi is, then why not put ur personal feelings aside and start discussing a theory that isnt already 6 feet under.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

stronger than hints for him being someone else...

Ok now this is going into... what's this territory called again? Trolling? Leave me to my own theories unless you have evidence. Case closed.

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

referring to how long tobi has been in the manga with a mask on of course

Can't you read or something? The big reveal about Tobi's identity was recently.

God... Why do I even bother with this it's so annoying.