Code Geass R2 - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by DarkLordOfkichiku

I said "weaken britannia in several ways", and in this I included getting rid of the emperor, V.V. - and probably also also Schneizel. With them gone and someone like, say, Odysseus or even Nunnally (though that is a longshot, but..) in charge of the empire, Britannia has the chance to become a lot more peaceful.

Eliminating VV is probably the top priority since he's the one binding the contract to Charles.

As for Schnezeil we don't know his motivations and it's said he's a realist (Like Lelouch) so he may not be as gung-ho as his father.

Heck the whole point of these invasions IS because of the Geass Ruins (The contract) which he's been investigating.

[Dann of Thursday]

V.V. isn't going away any time soon though I'd also put him as their most dangerous enemy in the end next to Charles. I expect Schneizal will be the enemy of this China arc though. I'm looking forward to seeing more of him since he is hard to read at times.

And Odysseus taking over wouldn't do much. That guy would really end up as nothing more than a puppet or he'd get assasinated. I'm also thinking that Lelouch may end up changing the government system in Brtiannia from its current one. Maybe something like a constitutional monarchy, though that won't be happening till near the end I suppose.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Nah Dann that's too complicated. Your better off just putting another king/queen in place to run the country and then just change it from there.

This show isn't about democracy vs. monarchs anyways.

[digitalmaster287]

Well for the highlights of this episode:

Zero's awesome plan to get 1 million out of the country legally
We find out that Nina actually pushed the button for the nuke
There's some hope of Suzaku and Lelouch becoming friends again
CECILE'S BOOBS! Who knew she was that hot?

[Ddadain]

Yeah, you're right about Hummarabi being older, but the term used was biblical -_- "an eye for an eye" as opposed to "If a man put out the eye of another man, his eye shall be put out." which connotes justice whereas I find the former to connote vengeance. We didn't understand what the other was saying... anyways ;d Human nature baby! But I'd have to disagree with you on your "quid pro quo" statement as it doesn't really connote an equal measure...

I've read that article explaining why number of crosses doesn't equal number of days, but I still have serious doubts about it. For one, a perma-geass effect would be way overpowered compared to the others we've seen so far (reading minds, stopping perception of time, erasing & rewriting memories, etc.)--it would be counterintuitive! Another is, I find it very, hrmm, uncharacteristic for an anime of such caliber as Code Geass to allow such seemingly subtly put things as mere coincidence (Maybe I'm just over-estimating the finesse of the writing, but if it were me...) and allowing the possibility of *blank* to happen to *blank* and so on and so forth.

As I said before, I'm a conspiracy theorist and have many many (many many many... for a show like geass) backup theories if one theory proves false (IMO, if Naruto could end up as Yondaime's son >_> guh!)

I don't really agree with the "200k rebels on the loose" idea because it makes it seem like Britannia would even feel threatened... For one, their in China. Another is, the only Britannian territory near where they're going is "TEH MAINLAND oF BRITANNIA" (AKA Teh U of the S of the A [USA])

On hindsight, it's very clear that C.C & V.V are other-worldly beings. Clearly, they can't be aliens (because that would be like woah -_- Bending the laws of physics by will alone! X-MEN!) ... lest they tone down the Greek mythology connotations of Jupiter and blah... Of course, anything about Geass itself is really the main plot of the story and speculating about it would be a waste of time...

Suzaku was sent to Japan to "dispose" Zero. Him escorting Nunnally was just his cover for going there as I understand the mission given to him by the emperor. If that was true, then it would mean he'd have to hound Zero down... It's hard to keep promises when you're not the master of one's self.

[Renegade334]

Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday

And Odysseus taking over wouldn't do much. That guy would really end up as nothing more than a puppet or he'd get assasinated.

Since he's the heir presumptive, he has no need to buff up politically speaking. He already has his free ticket to the throne just from his imperial firstborn status. Unless the Emperor himself deems his son to be too passive to take the reins of such an ambitious empire, he'll still gain the rule by default. He looks pretty placid to me...or it's just that his siblings have more prominent personalities, which is why he's so easily overshadowed.

I'm also thinking that Lelouch may end up changing the government system in Brtiannia from its current one. Maybe something like a constitutional monarchy, though that won't be happening till near the end I suppose.

Britannia already has a senate, according to Turn 04 - you can clearly see it when Rollo's victim profiles show up.
'April 30, 2007 - On this date, Senator William H. Helmsley was murdered in front of the Tennessee State Legislature, Nashville (...)'. Further down, it implies that the 'House of Lords' has the power to determine an Area's status - whether it be 'normal' or 'correctional'. I'm not sure how much leeway Charles gave his underlings, but it seems they have more than it seems.
Lelouch might however topple the Imperials' long-established rule and let the people reign themselves...that is, if he doesn't decide to centralize all powers to himself, for the time it'll take to change the nation's mindset. Indeed, as Toudou questioned in this ep, Britannia has to be changed from within.

I don't really agree with the "200k rebels on the loose" idea because it makes it seem like Britannia would even feel threatened... For one, their in China. Another is, the only Britannian territory near where they're going is "TEH MAINLAND oF BRITANNIA" (AKA Teh U of the S of the A [USA])

True, but they're led by a regicide who still managed to bring shame on the Imperial Family (through Euphemia) and make one royal drop out of eyesight (Cornelia). Moreover, his antics are already bad enough for Britannian prestige. Even if Lelouch's 'limited' power only amounts to a mosquito's bite on Britannia's humongous buttocks, it'll still itch. In the form of public embarrassment. I'm sure the people will forget about it because ideas and events rise and fall like fads, but Lelouch is certainly not one to go out without a bang or remind everyone that he's still up to no good.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by digitalmaster287

Well for the highlights of this episode:

Zero's awesome plan to get 1 million out of the country legally
There's some hope of Suzaku and Lelouch becoming friends again

It's interesting you mention that because the whole operation was based on Suzaku keeping a leash on the Britannian forces.

Had Suzaku not kept the army under control there would've been another massacre but because he held firm, everyone was saved though as Lloyd pointed out no one will thank Suzaku for it.

[Dann of Thursday]

Originally Posted by Ddadain

On hindsight, it's very clear that C.C & V.V are other-worldly beings. Clearly, they can't be aliens (because that would be like woah -_- Bending the laws of physics by will alone! X-MEN!) ... lest they tone down the Greek mythology connotations of Jupiter and blah... Of course, anything about Geass itself is really the main plot of the story and speculating about it would be a waste of time...

Where was this? It's bee revealed a while ago through interviews and such that C.C. was a normal human being before becoming immortal. Her original concept was that of an angel so I suppose you could consider that other-worldly if they kept that aspect. She was originally a simple, normal human though, which does mean something.

Originally Posted by Renegade334

Since he's the heir presumptive, he has no need to buff up politically speaking. He already has his free ticket to the throne just from his imperial firstborn status. Unless the Emperor himself deems his son to be too passive to take the reins of such an ambitious empire, he'll still gain the rule by default. He looks pretty placid to me...or it's just that his siblings have more prominent personalities, which is why he's so easily overshadowed.

He's been stated and shown as a rather weak-willed individual. I'd agree that he is pretty placid for the most part as the finale revealed where he just let Schneizal take care of everything.

[Isegrim]

Nunnally + Ms. Lohmaier = Klara (クララ・ゼーゼマン) + Ms. Rottenmeier (ロッテンマイヤー) from Heidi, girl of the Alps (アルプスの少女ハイジ) .

Spoiler for Click:

[Vorenus]

Well, I'm just done watching this episode and I would say that Episode 7 was a bit foreshadowing what was going to happen...

Like I said last week, Lelouch personnality seems to have changed and he is less aggressive... I understand that the Black Knights were surprised when he said "Fight? What would this lead to..."

I find it hard to believe that the Order would follow him, even with his charisma (which sort of dimunished in my book since he became "softer") since after all, the BK are for the very vast majority Japanese and only fought for freeing Japan from the Britannian rule : unlike Lelouch, they weren't fighting for the rest of the World.

Risking your life is something that is probably not being done easily and one of the reasons that make people revolt and fight his freedom and national identity.
The Specially Administrated Zone and Zero's argument of saying "What does it mean to be Japanese" nullified this reason to fight, so I find it hard to believe that so many Black Knights would want to follow him further, and a million of them to boot...
Granted, it was the only way for them to get amnesty, but according to my sub, only the one having participated in the operation that killed Carares or other royalties were not eligible for amnesty.
It is not like Britannia knew their identity either, so I don't think the reason they are following him again is to protect their lives...

Suzaku gets some redeeming points in this episode, like by hesitating to sign the execution order of the people who attacked him or by finally respecting and understanding Euphie's (f*ck the candles, no way I'm going to write Euphy !) and Nunnally's will of letting Zero get away.

Lelouch shows he indeed became softer from his conversation with Diethard...
Congratulating your subordinate is fine and something a competent leader should definitely do once in a while but doing it three times in a row and even qualifying him of an "unsurpassed genius" probably goes a bit too far...
Having him become a bit softer may turn out fine, but if the creators force this trait too much, it may actually degrade his character...

Finally, regarding the ceremony, we almost had carnage again and it is only thanks to Suzaku that the massacre was avoided. Lelouch calculated that accurately as Suzaku noticed afterwards... but it was really risky because Suzaku changed his mind almost at the last second.

Regarding the costume-trick, when all the Zero appared I thought "WTF, Zero did Tajuu Kage Bunshin !!!"... more seriously, I wonder how Lelouch got the resources to get a million Zero costume produced that easily and so quickly.
Zero costume looks like expensive, especially the helmet, and while it was probably made from low-quality materials and without the eye-mechanism the other members would have no use of, it is a rather resource intensive cosplay strategy...
Even if we consider that a costume only costed 5$, it means that the BK spent $5 millions just on cosplay...
Of course, there is Geass, but even then, there is no way producing 1 million Zero costumes and masks in one week would go unnoticed...
Well, that's just a minor rant, but I find this strategy not as credible as the ones we are usually shown.

More importantly, if Zero, including the real one is exiled, it means that Lelouch won't be at school which will obviously confirm Suzaku's suspicions.
Nothing prevents Nunnally from becoming a target for the Emperor again, should the Black Knights pose major troubles for the Empire...
I personally don't think Lelouch has solved the Nunnally crisis... he just managed to prevent her from staining her hands or have to face conflicts and wars... but she can be used as an hostage if needed...
That said, I really hope the writers will let Nunnally alone : please, she has been used an hostage twice in S1 (by Mao and V.V.) and in R2 with the Governor-General thingy... so 3 times in total... we really need to see something new and I hope this plot with Nunnally will not be reused again...

The episode in itself was rather slowly paced, which isn't usual for Code Geass... since last episode wasn't exactly fast-paced either, I hope that things will go quicker again from Episode 9 again... but it is only in two weeks.
Maybe it is because I knew there would be no Ep9 next week but I was annoyed by the pacing of this episode, oversoftening Lulu and the cosplay strategy didn't impress me more than that : a 7/10 for me.

[k//eternal]

Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday

Where was this? It's bee revealed a while ago through interviews and such that C.C. was a normal human being before becoming immortal. Her original concept was that of an angel so I suppose you could consider that other-worldly if they kept that aspect. She was originally a simple, normal human though, which does mean something.

I had the same impression, but now I can't remember who said it. Do you?

[Dann of Thursday]

Originally Posted by k//eternal

I had the same impression, but now I can't remember who said it. Do you?

Okouchi said it if I recall correctly which I think I am, though saying FO may be more appropriate.

[Cyz]

Very clever Lelouch, very clever. Outsmarted the Britannians once again. I guess Sayoko knows now who Zero really is then.

--> On a side note, Cecile's dress is

[Narutaro]

is there any confirmation that clearly said Ms Rohmeier is not Cornelia? I swear I can't get Cornelia out of my head when I see Rohmeier especially after she's ready to shoot one of Zero copy.

[nutype]

Originally Posted by Vorenus

Well, I'm just done watching this episode and I would say that Episode 7 was a bit foreshadowing what was going to happen...

when you say foreshadowing I was thinking that perhaps the black knights are going to eventually turn against zero. Every episode I'm seeing some foreshadowing of their eventual turn against him.

[Stretch5920]

This episode sucked. I was so disappointed with it I'm not even going to bother typing up why. This china arc better be damn good.

[Calawain]

Originally Posted by Narutaro

is there any confirmation that clearly said Ms Rohmeier is not Cornelia? I swear I can't get Cornelia out of my head when I see Rohmeier especially after she's ready to shoot one of Zero copy.

Um, she looks completely different and has a different seiyuu voicing her? She's just some random stereotypical Brittanian bureaucrat, would be silly to make her Cornelia. Her return needs to have more of an impact then that.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Vorenus

Well, I'm just done watching this episode and I would say that Episode 7 was a bit foreshadowing what was going to happen...

Like I said last week, Lelouch personnality seems to have changed and he is less aggressive... I understand that the Black Knights were surprised when he said "Fight? What would this lead to..."

After the shaft he just did to Britannia you don't believe he will continue to fight? The Rebellion will go on, it has simply evolved to the next stage

I find it hard to believe that the Order would follow him, even with his charisma (which sort of dimunished in my book since he became "softer") since after all, the BK are for the very vast majority Japanese and only fought for freeing Japan from the Britannian rule : unlike Lelouch, they weren't fighting for the rest of the World.

Risking your life is something that is probably not being done easily and one of the reasons that make people revolt and fight his freedom and national identity.
The Specially Administrated Zone and Zero's argument of saying "What does it mean to be Japanese" nullified this reason to fight, so I find it hard to believe that so many Black Knights would want to follow him further, and a million of them to boot...
Granted, it was the only way for them to get amnesty, but according to my sub, only the one having participated in the operation that killed Carares or other royalties were not eligible for amnesty.
It is not like Britannia knew their identity either, so I don't think the reason they are following him again is to protect their lives...

True, but over time I believe a good portion of them also fight for the sake of Zero as well, cult of personality if you will, as the million man dress up would indicate, Zero has become a symbol

Another thing is if you look at the speech to his Zero army, it was based on the fact that it wasn't so much the race, or land, but the heart of the people that will make Japan Japan. Anybody who knows Zero or follows him should know his mantra should know that being tied down to superficial ideas was never a part of his game plan. He gave them a new reason to fight, much like the one he rediscovered during the last episode >_>

Suzaku gets some redeeming points in this episode, like by hesitating to sign the execution order of the people who attacked him or by finally respecting and understanding Euphie's (f*ck the candles, no way I'm going to write Euphy !) and Nunnally's will of letting Zero get away.

Yes he does I guess, I suppose both of them are starting to come together, but I do admire that he's become a good soldier rather then a tyrant or a naive reformist

Lelouch shows he indeed became softer from his conversation with Diethard...
Congratulating your subordinate is fine and something a competent leader should definitely do once in a while but doing it three times in a row and even qualifying him of an "unsurpassed genius" probably goes a bit too far...
Having him become a bit softer may turn out fine, but if the creators force this trait too much, it may actually degrade his character...

Now, now, that might partially be it, but that rather dull tone of his and his bored face also makes me think he was just playing to Diethard's taste to keep him satisfied with continuing his job like he did with Kallen once upon a time. And if you will recall a certain line during that conversation 'Our tactics may have changed, but our strategy is still the same"

Finally, regarding the ceremony, we almost had carnage again and it is only thanks to Suzaku that the massacre was avoided. Lelouch calculated that accurately as Suzaku noticed afterwards... but it was really risky because Suzaku changed his mind almost at the last second.

Can't win anything if you can't take risks, either way I suppose this was the only way Lelouch could continue the struggle because it would have either died off slowly in the SAZ or be stuck in a corner and gutted had he chosen to continue fighting in an Area that was becoming disadvantageous for him

Regarding the costume-trick, when all the Zero appared I thought "WTF, Zero did Tajuu Kage Bunshin !!!"... more seriously, I wonder how Lelouch got the resources to get a million Zero costume produced that easily and so quickly.
Zero costume looks like expensive, especially the helmet, and while it was probably made from low-quality materials and without the eye-mechanism the other members would have no use of, it is a rather resource intensive cosplay strategy...
Even if we consider that a costume only costed 5$, it means that the BK spent $5 millions just on cosplay...
Of course, there is Geass, but even then, there is no way producing 1 million Zero costumes and masks in one week would go unnoticed...
Well, that's just a minor rant, but I find this strategy not as credible as the ones we are usually shown.

Chinese Sweat Shops from Xinge of course, why do you think Lelouch was talking to Diethard about making all the 'arrangements'?

More importantly, if Zero, including the real one is exiled, it means that Lelouch won't be at school which will obviously confirm Suzaku's suspicions.
Nothing prevents Nunnally from becoming a target for the Emperor again, should the Black Knights pose major troubles for the Empire...
I personally don't think Lelouch has solved the Nunnally crisis... he just managed to prevent her from staining her hands or have to face conflicts and wars... but she can be used as an hostage if needed...
That said, I really hope the writers will let Nunnally alone : please, she has been used an hostage twice in S1 (by Mao and V.V.) and in R2 with the Governor-General thingy... so 3 times in total... we really need to see something new and I hope this plot with Nunnally will not be reused again...

Ah, but you forget, Lelouch trusts Suzaku to continue to care for his sister despite the more ruthless judgment. And who knows, he could have had Villeta say Lelouch wanted to go on a field trip and that everything was fine since Rolo would be with him

The episode in itself was rather slowly paced, which isn't usual for Code Geass... since last episode wasn't exactly fast-paced either, I hope that things will go quicker again from Episode 9 again... but it is only in two weeks.
Maybe it is because I knew there would be no Ep9 next week but I was annoyed by the pacing of this episode, oversoftening Lulu and the cosplay strategy didn't impress me more than that : a 7/10 for me.

It played out as I thought it would generally, just not in the exact detail though Of course, I expected it to be a little slower, it was to establish the new beginning for Lelouch, now that the stage has been set we can finally kick the new rebellion into overdrive! Onward to China!!!! I found it enjoyable and a pleasant ride so I gave it a 8/10 myself

[JagdPanther]

Well, this was an interesting episode... And since there was no preview attached at the end (at least not what I saw) I have no idea what possibly the direction will be next time.

Of course, being a Villetta fanboy to the max, I am glad to see she actually go to be kinda close to Ohgi for a bit, and that he saved her life (most likely).

"Oh... uh... I'm Zero... Yeah...."

[Sir Dearka]

Thank you, Suzaku!!!

And I was like "WTF?" when the Japanese pulled put a V like Vendetta cosplay move. That was hillarious. Brilliant episode. The fact that there is no preview brings much more excitement to my wait now...