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Ronin Aquila · 2006-10-26, 11:21

As a starting point for my thesis on Race and Gender in International Media, I am going to start several surveys on the racial/gender/ethical politics of popular films (live action or otherwise) and anime.

This one will be the first.

Here goes:

Would you Consider The Gender Politics of Mai Hime First Season to be:

1) Progressive Feminist (A celebration of the divine feminine, unbound by the ethical and social constraints of patriarchal capitalism perhaps?

2) Militant Feminist (Lionizing feminine power while simultaneously criticizing the failures of masculine patriarchy?)

3) Progressive Feminine (As opposed to progressive feminist, this school of philosophy would espouse heroism in femininity that does not break from the traditional values of patriarchy. The contention that Mai's heroism springs not from power, but her maternal love is a good example of a progressive-feminine contention. Also consider the loving yet generally unexploitative portrayal of the female physical form.)

4) Politically Egalitarian (The contention that this anime does not celebrate or criticize patriarchy nor femininity.

or

5) Regressive Chauvinist (An equally valid, though quite pessimistic, opposition to the above four schools of thought. Cruel or even cynical as it may be to say, the same love that gives the Hime Warriors their strength is also the singular crippling weakness that allows the cold-logic of imperialistic patriarchy to overwhelm them. Being overwhelmed by love made the heroicially assertive Mai ineffectually weak; a crisis rarely faced by traditional masculine heroes. Also consider the rather exploitative nature of some of the fan service scenes.)

Let the debate begin!!

IMPORTANT NOTE.

Do note that "Progressive Feminine" is not a dismissal of the validity of feminine sexuality like "Reggressive Chauvinism", but rather a loving and respectful celebration of it.

However, unlike "Progressive Feminist', Progressive Feminine:

A) Empowers feminine sexuality without attempting to alter it to patriarchal values. Valeria the She-Male Feminist Barbarian from Conan The Barbarian is a prime example of what is NOT Progressive Feminine: she was practically a male-hating man with breasts.

B) Does not stomp over patriarchy or masculinity in its quest for validity, unlike "Militant Feminist."

Ronin Aquila · 2006-10-26, 12:26

1) Nao of the first season is the transgressive figure of liberated feminine sexuality that lacks maternal love, and is punished (narrativally) for her transgression.

2) As much as Nao, sister Yukariko defers to patriarchy doubly in her lover and god, and yet simultaneously defies it with her love to a man.

3) The Symbolic Trinity of Femininity:

Natsuki: Sexuality
Mikoto: Purity
Mai: Motherhood

4) Akira = Defends Patriarchy by embodying it: and defeated when she she yeilds to love.

More philosophical rambling to come.

USCPharmacist · 2006-10-26, 21:44

Mashiro: was piss at obsidian lord having an afair, spent 300 years to plot his demise

Aya Reiko · 2006-10-26, 22:06

Shizuru: Shoujo-ai
Yukino: Closeted shoujo-ai

Ronin Aquila · 2006-10-28, 18:56

Do note that "Progressive Feminine" is not a dismissal of the validity of feminine sexuality like "Reggressive Chauvinism", but rather a loving and respectful celebration of it.

However, unlike "Progressive Feminist', Progressive Feminine:

A) Empowers feminine sexuality without attempting to alter it to patriarchal values. Valeria the She-Male Feminist Barbarian from Conan The Barbarian is a prime example of what is NOT Progressive Feminine: she was practically a male-hating man with breasts.

B) Does not stomp over patriarchy or masculinity in its quest for validity, unlike "Militant Feminist."

ArchDragon · 2006-10-28, 20:41

To be honest, stuff like this is too phylosophical to Engineers like me.

But if I had to take a guess, it's 3rd option, "Progressive Feminine".

Tempest35 · 2006-10-31, 22:32

For the most part, Mai-HiME hits upon the Progressive Feminine option the most although other members of the cast do exibit nearly all the other types of gender politics that you mentioned before but I think these choices of cast members embody the types of Gender Politics:

Progressive Feminist - Natsuki
Militant Feminist - Haruka (ding ding)
Progressive Feminine - Mai
Regressive Chauvinist - Yurikako

Natsuki starts off as being the postergirl for Progressive Feminist - doing things her way, her standing as an untouchable 'goddess' amongst her classmates both male and female. The 'untouchable' aura she excluded, her self-reliance, as well as her ability for her to perform traditionally/typically masculine endevours (motorcycles, fighting w/ guns and unarmed) with feminine grace, beauty and even sensuality hits upon this very strongly. The negative aspects of Progressive Feminist are smoothed away by her relations with Mai, Mikoto, Shizuru, and even Nao, molding her into a softer, more personable Progressive Feminist-type near the end of the show.

Mai protrays Progressive Feminine to a 'T' over the course of the series. I'd go so far as to say that the anti-theory of Regressive Chauvinist became the perfect counter to the Progressive Feminine in that Reito seeked to show Mai how easily he dominated and controlled every outcome to get what he desired- case in point - he wanted her. In scripting the situations where the HiME fought each other and sending Nagi in to give them carefully worded information, Reito/OL protrayed an old adage dealing with men choosing/deciding everything and the woman just following along. Case in point would be who Mai loved: Tate - the one she chose of her own will, or Reito - the one who was most 'logically' perfect for her in his mind and some others. Mai refusing Reito/OL's offer in the end could be seen as a type of defiance to allow a patriarchal influence to decided something of that nature for a woman. In Mai's case, it was very well set up to be an arranged marriage.

I think that Haruka's general behavior illustrates what Militant Feminist is perfectly. ^^ She intensely disliked Shizuru's (and coincidently Reito's) way of dealing with things in an easygoing manner, one that did not show strong force in the face of problems that arose.

Maybe I'll do one for Yurikako later on but I'm sleepy for now... Been a while since we've had an intellectual convo on these boards...

I must say that I like the 'Symoblic Trinity' analogy too.

Ronin Aquila · 2006-11-09, 02:18

This may get a few people angry, but here goes.

The Hime Version of Shizuru unfortunately would fit into the Regressive Chauvinist reading of the stereotypical lesbian female.

She, after all, represents the subconcious masculine anxiety of being consumed by feminine sexuality (a manifestation of the Vagina Dentata according to the writings of Sigmund Freud, if you will) unbound in the least by the morals and concerns of patriarchy.

Her love for Natsuki, though noble in its roots, is portrayed as anything but constructive or positive later on in the series.

I personally admire this lady, but the way the series judged her conduct is chauvinistic if not downright mysoginistic.

Any thoughts and/or rebuttals to this contention?

Guido · 2006-11-13, 19:51

Nao turned somewhat nasty, because of the traumatic experience from her childhood.

That a bunch of a**h*le, f**ked up guys robbed her mother and implicilty hinted at that those jerks viscerally raped her mother, which literally turned into who she is at the start of My-HiME.

Unable to rely upon others and seek happiness from anyone else, save herself.

Actually, I found out that Nao's bleak outlook on life and childhood draws a bit few of fantastic parallels to the life of Valerie Solanas, the infamous writer of the S.C.U.M. Manifesto.

The woman better than all the male sex combined; the Woman Who Shot Andy Warhol.

I read her biography, and just like Nao she had a disastrously, f**k*ed up childhood. But unlike Nao, her childhood (Solanas) was far worse because her father in fact sexually abused her, and she ended up homeless by her mid-teens.

According to her S.C.U.M. Manifesto, women must engage in criminal and destructive activities NOT civil disobedience until 1) all patriarch-based systems and forms of government are dissolved; 2) all financial and transactions that involve money are eliminated and replaced by automated systems; 3) all men are literally GONE from the face of the Earth.

My opinion, Nao is the Militant Feminist icon from My-HiME

It would be a bit overboard to say this from me, but Valerie Solanas lives and is well alive in Nao Yuuki.

Nao is the Valerie Solanas of the My-HiME universe but toned down. Because if the real-life Solanas had the same powers and a Child just like Nao, then truly she would had changed the world to a female-only.

View Poll Results: What do you consider Mai-Hime's Gender Politics to Be?
Progressive Feminist	8	29.63%
Militant Feminist	1	3.70%
Progressive Feminine	14	51.85%
Politically Egalitarian	2	7.41%
Regressive Chauvinist.	2	7.41%
Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll

2006-10-26, 11:21	Link #1
Ronin Aquila Sky Warrior Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Jedi Temple, Coruscant Age: 43	Gender Politics of Mai-Hime, First Season As a starting point for my thesis on Race and Gender in International Media, I am going to start several surveys on the racial/gender/ethical politics of popular films (live action or otherwise) and anime. This one will be the first. Here goes: Would you Consider The Gender Politics of Mai Hime First Season to be: 1) Progressive Feminist (A celebration of the divine feminine, unbound by the ethical and social constraints of patriarchal capitalism perhaps? 2) Militant Feminist (Lionizing feminine power while simultaneously criticizing the failures of masculine patriarchy?) 3) Progressive Feminine (As opposed to progressive feminist, this school of philosophy would espouse heroism in femininity that does not break from the traditional values of patriarchy. The contention that Mai's heroism springs not from power, but her maternal love is a good example of a progressive-feminine contention. Also consider the loving yet generally unexploitative portrayal of the female physical form.) 4) Politically Egalitarian (The contention that this anime does not celebrate or criticize patriarchy nor femininity. or 5) Regressive Chauvinist (An equally valid, though quite pessimistic, opposition to the above four schools of thought. Cruel or even cynical as it may be to say, the same love that gives the Hime Warriors their strength is also the singular crippling weakness that allows the cold-logic of imperialistic patriarchy to overwhelm them. Being overwhelmed by love made the heroicially assertive Mai ineffectually weak; a crisis rarely faced by traditional masculine heroes. Also consider the rather exploitative nature of some of the fan service scenes.) Let the debate begin!! IMPORTANT NOTE. Do note that "Progressive Feminine" is not a dismissal of the validity of feminine sexuality like "Reggressive Chauvinism", but rather a loving and respectful celebration of it. However, unlike "Progressive Feminist', Progressive Feminine: A) Empowers feminine sexuality without attempting to alter it to patriarchal values. Valeria the She-Male Feminist Barbarian from Conan The Barbarian is a prime example of what is NOT Progressive Feminine: she was practically a male-hating man with breasts. B) Does not stomp over patriarchy or masculinity in its quest for validity, unlike "Militant Feminist." Last edited by Ronin Aquila; 2006-10-28 at 18:59. Reason: So that the readers get a proper idea of the distinction between progressive feminine as opposed to feminist.

2006-10-26, 12:26	Link #2
Ronin Aquila Sky Warrior Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Jedi Temple, Coruscant Age: 43	Other Points To Consider 1) Nao of the first season is the transgressive figure of liberated feminine sexuality that lacks maternal love, and is punished (narrativally) for her transgression. 2) As much as Nao, sister Yukariko defers to patriarchy doubly in her lover and god, and yet simultaneously defies it with her love to a man. 3) The Symbolic Trinity of Femininity: Natsuki: Sexuality Mikoto: Purity Mai: Motherhood 4) Akira = Defends Patriarchy by embodying it: and defeated when she she yeilds to love. More philosophical rambling to come.

2006-10-28, 18:56	Link #5
Ronin Aquila Sky Warrior Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Jedi Temple, Coruscant Age: 43	Secondary Notes. Do note that "Progressive Feminine" is not a dismissal of the validity of feminine sexuality like "Reggressive Chauvinism", but rather a loving and respectful celebration of it. However, unlike "Progressive Feminist', Progressive Feminine: A) Empowers feminine sexuality without attempting to alter it to patriarchal values. Valeria the She-Male Feminist Barbarian from Conan The Barbarian is a prime example of what is NOT Progressive Feminine: she was practically a male-hating man with breasts. B) Does not stomp over patriarchy or masculinity in its quest for validity, unlike "Militant Feminist."

2006-10-26, 21:44	Link #3
USCPharmacist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004	Mashiro: was piss at obsidian lord having an afair, spent 300 years to plot his demise

2006-10-26, 22:06	Link #4
Aya Reiko Cutengu Join Date: May 2006 Location: Shameimaru's lap	Shizuru: Shoujo-ai Yukino: Closeted shoujo-ai

2006-10-28, 20:41	Link #6
ArchDragon The Ultimate Monster Join Date: Dec 2005	To be honest, stuff like this is too phylosophical to Engineers like me. But if I had to take a guess, it's 3rd option, "Progressive Feminine".

2006-10-31, 22:32	Link #7
Tempest35 Awe of She Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Orlando	For the most part, Mai-HiME hits upon the Progressive Feminine option the most although other members of the cast do exibit nearly all the other types of gender politics that you mentioned before but I think these choices of cast members embody the types of Gender Politics: Progressive Feminist - Natsuki Militant Feminist - Haruka (ding ding) Progressive Feminine - Mai Regressive Chauvinist - Yurikako Natsuki starts off as being the postergirl for Progressive Feminist - doing things her way, her standing as an untouchable 'goddess' amongst her classmates both male and female. The 'untouchable' aura she excluded, her self-reliance, as well as her ability for her to perform traditionally/typically masculine endevours (motorcycles, fighting w/ guns and unarmed) with feminine grace, beauty and even sensuality hits upon this very strongly. The negative aspects of Progressive Feminist are smoothed away by her relations with Mai, Mikoto, Shizuru, and even Nao, molding her into a softer, more personable Progressive Feminist-type near the end of the show. Mai protrays Progressive Feminine to a 'T' over the course of the series. I'd go so far as to say that the anti-theory of Regressive Chauvinist became the perfect counter to the Progressive Feminine in that Reito seeked to show Mai how easily he dominated and controlled every outcome to get what he desired- case in point - he wanted her. In scripting the situations where the HiME fought each other and sending Nagi in to give them carefully worded information, Reito/OL protrayed an old adage dealing with men choosing/deciding everything and the woman just following along. Case in point would be who Mai loved: Tate - the one she chose of her own will, or Reito - the one who was most 'logically' perfect for her in his mind and some others. Mai refusing Reito/OL's offer in the end could be seen as a type of defiance to allow a patriarchal influence to decided something of that nature for a woman. In Mai's case, it was very well set up to be an arranged marriage. I think that Haruka's general behavior illustrates what Militant Feminist is perfectly. ^^ She intensely disliked Shizuru's (and coincidently Reito's) way of dealing with things in an easygoing manner, one that did not show strong force in the face of problems that arose. Maybe I'll do one for Yurikako later on but I'm sleepy for now... Been a while since we've had an intellectual convo on these boards... I must say that I like the 'Symoblic Trinity' analogy too.

2006-11-09, 02:18	Link #8
Ronin Aquila Sky Warrior Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Jedi Temple, Coruscant Age: 43	This may get a few people angry, but here goes. The Hime Version of Shizuru unfortunately would fit into the Regressive Chauvinist reading of the stereotypical lesbian female. She, after all, represents the subconcious masculine anxiety of being consumed by feminine sexuality (a manifestation of the Vagina Dentata according to the writings of Sigmund Freud, if you will) unbound in the least by the morals and concerns of patriarchy. Her love for Natsuki, though noble in its roots, is portrayed as anything but constructive or positive later on in the series. I personally admire this lady, but the way the series judged her conduct is chauvinistic if not downright mysoginistic. Any thoughts and/or rebuttals to this contention?

2006-11-13, 19:51	Link #9
Guido Snobby Gentleman Join Date: May 2004 Location: Monterrey, México Age: 43	Nao turned somewhat nasty, because of the traumatic experience from her childhood. That a bunch of a*hle, fked up guys robbed her mother and implicilty hinted at that those jerks viscerally raped her mother, which literally turned into who she is at the start of My-HiME. Unable to rely upon others and seek happiness from anyone else, save herself. Actually, I found out that Nao's bleak outlook on life and childhood draws a bit few of fantastic parallels to the life of Valerie Solanas, the infamous writer of the S.C.U.M. Manifesto. The woman better than all the male sex combined; the Woman Who Shot Andy Warhol. I read her biography, and just like Nao she had a disastrously, fk*ed up childhood. But unlike Nao, her childhood (Solanas) was far worse because her father in fact sexually abused her, and she ended up homeless by her mid-teens. According to her S.C.U.M. Manifesto, women must engage in criminal and destructive activities NOT civil disobedience until 1) all patriarch-based systems and forms of government are dissolved; 2) all financial and transactions that involve money are eliminated and replaced by automated systems; 3) all men are literally GONE from the face of the Earth. My opinion, Nao is the Militant Feminist icon from My-HiME It would be a bit overboard to say this from me, but Valerie Solanas lives and is well alive in Nao Yuuki. Nao is the Valerie Solanas of the My-HiME universe but toned down. Because if the real-life Solanas had the same powers and a Child just like Nao, then truly she would had changed the world to a female-only.