Toradora! - Character Discussion - Kushieda Minori

[frubam]

Random observation: In ep 2, Minorin tried to use the Satoru Pass to that guy and when he was confused, she just said something akin to "Don't worry, you won't understand it anyway. "

Yet in ep 14, when she was talking about the class pictures, it seemed like she EXPECTED him to know what she was talking about. Could this be a subtle attempt to try to get Ryuuji to know how she thinks?

[wistfulloner]

Originally Posted by frubam

My thing with the Minorin/Ryuuji couple is that I don't think he knows the true Minorin. At this point in the story, he seems to acknowledge both Taiga and Ami as their true selves, which includes their faults/negatives. Sure, Ryuuji got to see a bit of Minorin's serious side, but he doesn't really know Minorin to the extent he knows Taiga and Ami. He doesn't know anything about her private life, nor does he know of any faults about her. When Ryuuji starts to learn more about the Minorin's other persona, then I could see them as a couple. Until then, Taiga and/or Ami have a higher chance of a potential relationship than Minorin.

Unless you're looking in a perfect world, Ryuji and Minori don't necessarily have to read each other inside out to be able to become an item. It's called a crush, and can also lead to a relationship, although it is unlikely the series will end that way. Rather, knowing more about Taiga and Ami even if he doesn't like them won't pave much way for a potential couple, more like very close friends. In fact, I think Ryuji understands Minori more than Ami.

But if you're looking at it from the pure anime standpoint, then yes, it is unlikely the two would become a couple.

@frubam: Yes, I noticed that too. Probably its because she's Ryuji's good friend, but only classmates with Noto, so she has different expectations of them. No plotting on Minori's part, I would say.

[BetoJR]

I'm replying here to a comment made at the Episode 14 discussion page because I think this is the right place for it and, since it was indicated that no Off-Topic discussion was to be had there...

Originally Posted by frubam

As for Minorin, I'm still waiting for the moment that Ryuuji truly gets to know about her. That moment hasn't come up yet, though I have a feeling it'll be near the end of the series run before anything like that happens. I don't think even Taiga truly KNOWS knows about her(Taiga didn't know that Minorin actually liked scary movies. Taiga probably doesn't even know the "real" Minorin.) For what reason does she have to keep her personal life to herself?

That's a very telling comment. I hadn't really paid much mind to it, but yes, how could Taiga not know about this? Kitamura did. What else doesn't she know?

This goes to show that probably no one has really gotten Minorin yet.

[yezhanquan]

To me, Minori is a mystery. I never really know what she's thinking most of the time. Other than in school (and the softball club) and her part-time jobs, other aspects of her life are not touched upon.

[Ultenth]

Spoiler for ep 16:

I really want to know what the context of Ami's comment to her about her guilt near the end of the episode. Seems Ami knows something none of the characters (or audience) knows about Minorin.

[wistfulloner]

Originally Posted by Ultenth

Spoiler for ep 16:

I really want to know what the context of Ami's comment to her about her guilt near the end of the episode. Seems Ami knows something none of the characters (or audience) knows about Minorin.

Not really, Ami knows everything nothing private; Ryuji's and Minori's relationship is quite well known among the five of them. I'm sure Ami's just assuring her that Ryuji is really up for grabs, and she won't be selfishly stealing him from Taiga if she decides to like him. Ami might be wrong though, Taiga might have really given up on ever getting Kitamura, and perhaps let her sub-conscious affection for Ryuji take over.

[typhonsentra]

Originally Posted by wistfulloner

Not really, Ami knows everything nothing private; Ryuji's and Minori's relationship is quite well known among the five of them. I'm sure Ami's just assuring her that Ryuji is really up for grabs, and she won't be selfishly stealing him from Taiga if she decides to like him. Ami might be wrong though, Taiga might have really given up on ever getting Kitamura, and perhaps let her sub-conscious affection for Ryuji take over.

She says it after getting confirmation that Taiga really does care for Ryuuji. It seems to me she said it knowing that it'd add to her guilt and not to alleviate any, which is why she regretted saying it immediately after.

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

To me, Minori is a mystery. I never really know what she's thinking most of the time. Other than in school (and the softball club) and her part-time jobs, other aspects of her life are not touched upon.

One of my best friends is a carbon copy of Minori, no one could read her, until i could do it... she was so scared of me that she broken any relationship with me.

The reason why this people are looking constantly hiding what they are really thinking is a self-defense mechanism because of fear of how his circle of friends/family would react if they know how they (in this case, Minori) really are.

In last episode, look how Minori underestimated Ryuuji's praise, saying almost that she is a bad person.

[BetoJR]

The thing is... I'm starting to think Minorin doesn't really have a darker side or something. She is what she is and that's all - I don't believe she behaves like she does out of overcompensation of personal fears or whatever. Personal opinion, of course.

But wouldn't it be refreshing, if it were so?

[Waven]

Originally Posted by BetoJR

The thing is... I'm starting to think Minorin doesn't really have a darker side or something. She is what she is and that's all - I don't believe she behaves like she does out of overcompensation of personal fears or whatever. Personal opinion, of course.

But wouldn't it be refreshing, if it were so?

Funny thing, i have the same opinion and i'm starting to think people think too much into her behaviour. Just because she doesn't act goofy and high-spirited in serious moments doesn't mean there's another side to her. She may have moments of a dynamic character but for me she's a flat character as well (note that this is not a derogative term here but a technical) which means that she's rather simple and not as complex as most of the other cast but i guess few here will agree with me.

[wistfulloner]

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

She says it after getting confirmation that Taiga really does care for Ryuuji. It seems to me she said it knowing that it'd add to her guilt and not to alleviate any, which is why she regretted saying it immediately after.

I thought she regretted it because she thought saying that would ruin her chances with Ryuji, not because her words would do any hurt to Minori.

But she's really heartless if she had done that in order to increase Minori's guilt. Anyway if she really wanted to spite Minori, why tell her she doesn't need to be guilty anymore?

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by wistfulloner

I thought she regretted it because she thought saying that would ruin her chances with Ryuji, not because her words would do any hurt to Minori.

What chances???... Amin already knows that Ryuuji belongs to Taiga. She is smart enough to notice that.

But she's really heartless if she had done that in order to increase Minori's guilt. Anyway if she really wanted to spite Minori, why tell her she doesn't need to be guilty anymore?

Amin is not bad, not like a Cruella De Vil, what Amin said was that kind of thing that you know you must NOT say but you can't help it but said it. Amin already feels really bad.

The thing here is if Minori will be honest to her feelings.

[wistfulloner]

Originally Posted by Fran~

What chances???... Amin already knows that Ryuuji belongs to Taiga. She is smart enough to notice that.



Amin is not bad, not like a Cruella De Vil, what Amin said was that kind of thing that you know you must NOT say but you can't help it but said it. Amin already feels really bad.

The thing here is if Minori will be honest to her feelings.

If Ami is that perceptive, would you she be as dense as to accidentally blurt out those "hurting" words as you said?

Minori is well aware of Taiga's and Ryuji's relationship. Ami is just adding befuddling her even more.

[Fran~]

I dont think that Minori see Taiga and Ryuuji's relationship same way that Amin... not at all. Minori still believe in a "Tsuki" relationship between them, but to Ryuuji, they are "Namaka" (not friends, comrades would be a better definition). Amin OTOH, can see that Taiga is seriously close to Ryuuji and understands that events like "Sumire's arc" are those chances in which two friends/comrades/whatever could take that to the next level, for intimacy level that they have.

Besides, i dont think that amin were hurting Minori, i think that Amin herself was very upset or disappointed for this situation and the words just slipped from her mouth. After that Amin is full of remorseful.

That moments are really a Pain in the ass, not only a handful of people are involved, one comment could involve even more people... and the way Toradora discuss this kind of conflicts is very elegant.

[frubam]

Originally Posted by Fran~

Amin OTOH, can see that Taiga is seriously close to Ryuuji and understands that events like "Sumire's arc" are those chances in which two friends/comrades/whatever could take that to the next level, for intimacy level that they have.

I don't see how Ami saw anything in this arc; Ryuuji and Taiga really didn't do anything to get closer to each other.

Besides, i dont think that amin were hurting Minori, i think that Amin herself was very upset or disappointed for this situation and the words just slipped from her mouth. After that Amin is full of remorseful.

I agree. At the end of ep 16, originally, Ami told those two girls to just give the ID to Ryuuji, but when they blurted out in front of Minorin that Taiga loved Kitamura, she quickly snatched it up. She definitely doesn't want Minorin to go after Ryuuji, esp since she knows Ryuuji likes Minorin.

Furthermore, Minorin notices that the picture Taiga had is of the one she loves, and is probably thinking back to when she saw Ryuuji getting just that pic with both of them in it, and none with Taiga. At that moment, she, like Ami, probably had a few things running through her mind as well.

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by frubam

I don't see how Ami saw anything in this arc; Ryuuji and Taiga really didn't do anything to get closer to each other.

Yes, but Amin is thinking in advance, not based on facts, she is being preventive and took defensive actions. Remember how anytime that Amin wants to be alone with Ryuuji, Taiga or Minori showed up, at the beach, at the school, etc.

Amin even told that Minori is not the type for Ryuuji...


.

[Liddo-kun]

Originally Posted by frubam

I agree. At the end of ep 16, originally, Ami told those two girls to just give the ID to Ryuuji, but when they blurted out in front of Minorin that Taiga loved Kitamura, she quickly snatched it up. She definitely doesn't want Minorin to go after Ryuuji, esp since she knows Ryuuji likes Minorin.

Furthermore, Minorin notices that the picture Taiga had is of the one she loves, and is probably thinking back to when she saw Ryuuji getting just that pic with both of them in it, and none with Taiga. At that moment, she, like Ami, probably had a few things running through her mind as well.

Perhaps Ami noticed that Minori might think it's ok to get closer to Ryuuji after seeing the picture?

When Ami said, Minori has less guilt after seeing the picture... I think Ami means that Minori might be feeling guilty of being in love with Ryuuji because that would be taking Ryuuji away from Taiga, but since the one that Taiga really loves is Kitamura... Minori would not feel so guilty if she ever considers to love Ryuuji.

All speculations based on what I've seen on the anime, I haven't read the novels.

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by Liddo-kun

Perhaps Ami noticed that Minori might think it's ok to get closer to Ryuuji after seeing the picture?

I wanna answer that only from anime PoW.
Ami noticed Ryuuji's feelings for Minori just she arrives to their lives, at the begining she always thinked in Ryuuji and Taiga relationship, but in the beach she was quite frankly with Ryuuji to the point to notice that Minori is not the best choice for him. I think that Amin believes even more in Taiga that Minori.

Second thought: When Amin gave Minori the whole speech about the photos and how irrelevants they are, she was saying "hell woman, that means nothing you know?".

Now when Amin already knows how Minori connects photos with feelings, she is kinda saying "well, you know, Taiga doesnt love Ryuuji, you dont need to be ashame for loving Ryuuji, if you really like him though". BUT... Minori doesnt know about the picture beneath the one with kitamura and taiga.... and Amin thinks that he doesnt need to say that... someway that is not what she needs right now.

When Ami said, Minori has less guilt after seeing the picture... I think Ami means that Minori might be feeling guilty of being in love with Ryuuji because that would be taking Ryuuji away from Taiga, but since the one that Taiga really loves is Kitamura... Minori would not feel so guilty if she ever considers to love Ryuuji.

All speculations based on what I've seen on the anime, I haven't read the novels.

yup... but there is two things that are showed in anime but too shortly, one, the picture beneath the Taiga+Kitamura Pic and the "face" that Amin did after she said that to Minori.

[wistfulloner]

Yeah, you seem to be pretty much correct about Ami's lack of malicious intentions.

Originally Posted by Tri-ring

From what I have heard, it's actually a picture of Taiga and Ryuji.
If you listen closely the girl who picked up the student booklet, she noticed that there was another picture underneath and was about to turn it over when she was interrupted by Ami pulling the booklet out of her hands before she witnessed what was underneath, sugesting that Ami knew what it was.

This quote about the second picture might be the reason why Ami told Minori about the guilt thing. Furthermore, Minori could have misheard, and thought the girls were refering to Ryuji who Taiga really liked, since they didn't mention Kitamura at all.

Ami, being the queen of empathy, quickly picked this up and although she knew it was completely false, she suggested to Minori not to feel guilty about getting near Ryuji anymore. Ami quickly regretted it later because she realized her lie could do a lot of damage.

[Liddo-kun]

Originally Posted by Fran~

yup... but there is two things that are showed in anime but too shortly, one, the picture beneath the Taiga+Kitamura Pic and the "face" that Amin did after she said that to Minori.

I didn't see the picture beneath the Taiga x Kitamura picture.
Was it really shown at all in the anime? If it's not shown in the anime, please don't tell me what it is.