AnimeSuki Forums

Ryus · 2011-07-30, 00:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoFarGone

Super lame power up. I hope Natsu loses.

Oh, he'll lose...

Spoiler for Chapter 246 (maybe):

NoLongerSane · 2011-07-30, 01:02

Lol, it will probably not go that far.

In all honesty, I think Mashima is trying to make some similarities with the Doryu fight that occured in Rave Master.

Spoiler for Doryu fight:

Ryus · 2011-07-30, 01:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoLongerSane

Lol, it will probably not go that far.

In all honesty, I think Mashima is trying to make some similarities with the Doryu fight that occured in Rave Master.

Spoiler for Doryu fight:

We don't even have to go that far... this is almost like OS arc with Gerard giving Natsu the Flame of Reburk (forgive spelling).

~Yami~ · 2011-07-30, 01:15

noooo....
I want more Laxus but why should you end it like this, Mashima~sensei....

nah! let's just see how far can Natsu hold up against Hades

kk2extreme · 2011-07-30, 01:27

This is turning into Natsu vs. Zero 2.0

MechR · 2011-07-30, 01:34

In theory Hades still needs to survive long enough to unlock Zeref, since nobody else has the keys. But then again, that's what I thought about Aizen too.

Keroko · 2011-07-30, 03:13

I probably should complain about the cliché and lack of Laxus pwnage like the rest of the people here, but at the end of the chapter I was just going "hell yeah."

No complicated literatureraly correct reason, I just liked it.

Darklord_bg · 2011-07-30, 03:24

OK....that was the last straw...

Looks like only Natsu and Erza get to look cool in this manga...

I can't believe Mashima set up yet another potentially epic moment twenty or so chapters ago and just ruined it like this...

Really, I am without words...

haegar · 2011-07-30, 04:23

at this point I would like to say fuck you mashima ... though I cant say I am surprised by this.

Spoiler for hmpf:

Darklord_bg · 2011-07-30, 04:58

I'm trying to remember when was the last time Natsu beat someone with his own strength. I think I have to go as far as the Phantom arc, if I'm not mistaken...

MechR · 2011-07-30, 05:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darklord_bg

I'm trying to remember when was the last time Natsu beat someone with his own strength. I think I have to go as far as the Phantom arc, if I'm not mistaken...

There was Hughes in Edoras. Arguably Cobra in Nirvana, though he got really lucky with the roar. Wally and Milliana in ToP.

cloak_and_dagger · 2011-07-30, 08:41

^ It stops at Hughes for me. If Natsu defeats Hades(by himself), I will shift into rage overdrive.

ronin myael · 2011-07-30, 09:05

i'm still waiting for natsu to get seriously sick from taking in all that lightning, but i will probably be disappointed. personally, i would have preferred laxus to fight alongside natsu and the other guys from fairy tail. why can't they all team up to defeat an obviously much stronger foe? oda has done it. the one on one fights are so dragon ball. mashima should take pointers from oda.

Tempest35 · 2011-07-30, 09:25

Well, if one were to stretch their way of thinking, Lightning can be considered the 'fire' of the sky so...

I knew people were gonna get upset at this recent development and to be honest, I was like '...what?' at the end of the chapter but I'll let it go since I can relate to wanting to keep things within the group/guild.

Guilds are extremely territorial in this world setup. Even though Laxus is Makarov's grandson, he's no longer in the guild and this started off as a Guild vs Guild battle. Laxus knows this better than anyone so he did the next best thing, he gave his magic to a member of the guild so that he could have a 'part' in bringing down the foe. It's a loophole.

Om Nerabdator · 2011-07-30, 10:00

i wanted more luxus action, and what happened to all the bullet..i mean magic holes he shot at natsu......i dont see a hole on him at the end

felix · 2011-07-30, 10:54

Damn Laxus too quick, kick more arse before you tag out.

Keroko · 2011-07-30, 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by matty543

i wanted more luxus action, and what happened to all the bullet..i mean magic holes he shot at natsu......i dont see a hole on him at the end

Natsu nom nom lightning, instant heal. Yeah, he'll get sick afterwards, but if Aetherion is any indication it's a small price to pay.

Casshern · 2011-07-30, 12:12

Laxus did much better than I expected. I doubt if Natsu will last much longer than Laxus against Hades though. I think some of you are jumping to conclusions in thinking this is all it will take, just like last week when a few thought Laxus was gonna fly in and roflstomp Hades.

Really, the only thing that was kinda "off" in this chapter was Natsu eating Laxus's lightning, when we've been told by Happy that Natsu tried that once before and became sick. Transfering power is a gray area though. As an example Natsu couldn't handle Zancrow's flames either at first.

przemoc · 2011-07-30, 13:09

245

Let's start from the beginning.
This chapter was quite ok at the beginning, much better than the previous ones (243: Hades "dozens years of experience" initially astonished by a few magi [give me a break], reinforcement _after_ attack [complete idiocy], Hades again astonished by unison raid [WTF?]; 244: Wendy saved by clockman [totally lame, same for explanation, after all these attacks hit others and they're still alive...], LOL dance magic [it completely does not suit respectful old Hades, making him a crazy geezer was really stupid], OMG Acnologia withdrawal...).
So it was lacking all the silliness shown before. Laxus introductory speech was fitting him well (ok, "make a grave for him" is strange, he had grave before...). This time even _initial_ Laxus ownage was acceptable as he is (without any doubts) on completely different level than Erza, Natsu & Co. and he has great control over lightning to the extent of being able to transfer himself within them (which was shown before). Owning is exaggeration, it may just look a bit like that, but Hades was easily enduring his attacks and didn't show any signs of fatigue (which is crucial, after all, "dozens years of experience", different level... you know what I mean). Even if he wouldn't use Amaretsu 78.34, he already became acclimatized in this fight with Laxus, so from this moment he would definitely show real pawnage. But he used this superb spell, which hit Laxus even though he mangaed to escape via lightning and kick Hades. Thus Makarov's grandson was incapable of moving.

So far so good. Now, if he would "continue" the fight from his place, it would be terribly inefficient and ineffective. Defending himself would cost him lost of magic and energy, without any gain. Possibly even more for trying overcome immobility. Therefore decision about magic "transfer" (it's not sure whether it's real transfer or not) is understandable if you think about it for a few secs. Lightning is as fast as light, so doing it in split-second was also ok. Thus I cannot really complain about first 73% of the chapter.

The problems show now:

Magic transfer itself
Natsu's problems in eating not normal flames
Laxus explanation
Boost scheme

Turning into commentator/advocatus diaboli:

Is it really possible to transfer magic? Magic is somewhat combined with life energy. Thus real magic transfer should be permanent, not temporary, sending magic-life energy increases receivers magic capacity and abilities via assimilation. So far Natsu always got condensed magic in attack (with exception for Gerard, it wasn't an attack, because he gave him his Rebuke whatever on purpose), power-uping him only until he used it all. Now it is unclear, as it wasn't shown at all, whether Laxus used totally full-power attack towards Natsu, power-uping him only for upcoming fight, or he somehow transfered his magic into Natsu, meaning also he wouldn't survive Hades blast.
"Thanks... for... the... meal." suggests it was only Laxus' full-power attack (meaning he'll survive this, because even though he said "That's every last bit of my magic", there are surely unmovable magic-energy reserves that could be ceded only via real magic transfer, so not using them he should stay barely alive). So Natsu should at least show some ill effects of eating lightning or lightining fire. Maybe Laxus was able to form a "fire" from his lightnings, but he wasn't using it so far in man-to-man battles, knowing that Natsu would eat them. Mashima can still defend it later in post-story talks or in the middle of fight insightful comments of others (I just "love" those...).
"It's not about strong or weak... Who was the one hurt by all this? Someone with the guild's brand needs to handle this... " Ok, ok, NOT OK! It's total bullshit. Look into yourself, find mighty energy (with my help), and you'll win even against Hades! How much of this crap Mashima wants to serve us more? Miracles are ok, if they are rare, not in every arc, for damn sake.
Does every arc must end up with Natsu's boost? WHY?! It will be somewhat accaptable though if he'll lose the fight, because he SHOULD lose even with Laxus' lightnings (and even Erza's requip, if she can transfer it to him...)! Even devil agrees with me!

Almost last words:
There is also a general important issue. Where the heck is Gildartz?! Its superiority over Laxus is pretty clear, so Mashima leaving him resting at the island is pretty insane. Also, there is no way that normal writer would allow Hades be defeated, as only Makarov, Gildartz and Laxus are normally able to fight Purehito at all. Mind that Makarov IS inferior to Hades (and even w/o his past illness, which repercussions were surely there) he wouldn't stand a chance against his master. We don't know how Gildartz really powerful is, but I think he's more powerful than Makarov by now, and would be the best opponent for Hades. Well, Laxus is worse than Gildartz, but still not bad, thus maybe combining Laxus agility and Gildartz powers there would be able to manage something, e.g. ending fight with some kind of draw, as they still shouldn't be able to win against such powerful enemy. Losing battle and even withdrawal (which may seem shameful) are sometimes necessary to move forward (i.e. avoid dying in vain) to win the war later. But as long as it is mostly kids-oriented story, I am afraid we won't see such thing, which is really a shame.

Summary:
Overall, chapter is good with exception for last 5 pages being a huge disappointment. So yes, I understand all your laments (I don't understand lack of them for previous chaps, though), but be fair, not whole chapter is bad, yet ending ruins it indeed.

Keroko · 2011-07-30, 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casshern

Really, the only thing that was kinda "off" in this chapter was Natsu eating Laxus's lightning, when we've been told by Happy that Natsu tried that once before and became sick. Transfering power is a gray area though. As an example Natsu couldn't handle Zancrow's flames either at first.

Just look at Aetherion, he didn't become sick until after the fight was over. Same thing here.

2011-07-30, 01:02	Link #5762
NoLongerSane Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Texas	Lol, it will probably not go that far. In all honesty, I think Mashima is trying to make some similarities with the Doryu fight that occured in Rave Master. Spoiler for Doryu fight: The group ends up fighting the boss of the Pumkin Doryu Squad after taking care of the minions, they take the appearent upper hand until Doryu decided to go full power then systematically owns the group. If it were not for a last minute power up to the Haru's sword, Doryu would have won. It's pretty much what we are seeing now.

2011-07-30, 03:24	Link #5768
Darklord_bg Hallowed Redeemer Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Stanford, CA	OK....that was the last straw... Looks like only Natsu and Erza get to look cool in this manga... I can't believe Mashima set up yet another potentially epic moment twenty or so chapters ago and just ruined it like this... Really, I am without words... __________________

2011-07-30, 04:23	Link #5769
haegar mangaviking Join Date: Jun 2009	at this point I would like to say fuck you mashima ... though I cant say I am surprised by this. Spoiler for hmpf: I was pretty sure Natsu would get up again. But I was thinkin tagteam battle. fodderizing Laxus. dat damn asshole. how dare here __________________

2011-07-30, 04:58	Link #5770
Darklord_bg Hallowed Redeemer Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Stanford, CA	I'm trying to remember when was the last time Natsu beat someone with his own strength. I think I have to go as far as the Phantom arc, if I'm not mistaken... __________________

2011-07-30, 08:41	Link #5772
cloak_and_dagger Hei aka Li Xiansheng Graphic Designer Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Kasumigaseki; where contractors dwell. Age: 35	^ It stops at Hughes for me. If Natsu defeats Hades(by himself), I will shift into rage overdrive. __________________

2011-07-30, 01:15	Link #5764
~Yami~ a random Indonesian otaku Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Xanadu Age: 32	noooo.... I want more Laxus but why should you end it like this, Mashima~sensei.... nah! let's just see how far can Natsu hold up against Hades

2011-07-30, 01:27	Link #5765
kk2extreme Your wife is hot... Join Date: May 2008 Location: At your house fixing A/C	This is turning into Natsu vs. Zero 2.0

2011-07-30, 01:34	Link #5766
MechR Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009	In theory Hades still needs to survive long enough to unlock Zeref, since nobody else has the keys. But then again, that's what I thought about Aizen too.

2011-07-30, 03:13	Link #5767
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	I probably should complain about the cliché and lack of Laxus pwnage like the rest of the people here, but at the end of the chapter I was just going "hell yeah." No complicated literatureraly correct reason, I just liked it.

2011-07-30, 09:05	Link #5773
ronin myael lost ronin Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: in the recesses of my convoluted mind...	i'm still waiting for natsu to get seriously sick from taking in all that lightning, but i will probably be disappointed. personally, i would have preferred laxus to fight alongside natsu and the other guys from fairy tail. why can't they all team up to defeat an obviously much stronger foe? oda has done it. the one on one fights are so dragon ball. mashima should take pointers from oda. __________________ "Sometimes you wake up. Sometimes the fall kills you. And sometimes, when you fall, you fly."~ Neil Gaiman (The Sandman)

2011-07-30, 09:25	Link #5774
Tempest35 Awe of She Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Orlando	Well, if one were to stretch their way of thinking, Lightning can be considered the 'fire' of the sky so... I knew people were gonna get upset at this recent development and to be honest, I was like '...what?' at the end of the chapter but I'll let it go since I can relate to wanting to keep things within the group/guild. Guilds are extremely territorial in this world setup. Even though Laxus is Makarov's grandson, he's no longer in the guild and this started off as a Guild vs Guild battle. Laxus knows this better than anyone so he did the next best thing, he gave his magic to a member of the guild so that he could have a 'part' in bringing down the foe. It's a loophole. __________________ "Focus entirely on me, you ordinary soldier."

2011-07-30, 10:00	Link #5775
Om Nerabdator ~Maru~ Join Date: Mar 2008	i wanted more luxus action, and what happened to all the bullet..i mean magic holes he shot at natsu......i dont see a hole on him at the end __________________

2011-07-30, 10:54	Link #5776
felix sleepyhead Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: event horizon	Damn Laxus too quick, kick more arse before you tag out. __________________

2011-07-30, 12:12	Link #5778
Casshern Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004	Laxus did much better than I expected. I doubt if Natsu will last much longer than Laxus against Hades though. I think some of you are jumping to conclusions in thinking this is all it will take, just like last week when a few thought Laxus was gonna fly in and roflstomp Hades. Really, the only thing that was kinda "off" in this chapter was Natsu eating Laxus's lightning, when we've been told by Happy that Natsu tried that once before and became sick. Transfering power is a gray area though. As an example Natsu couldn't handle Zancrow's flames either at first.

2011-07-30, 13:09	Link #5779
przemoc Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Poland Age: 37	245 Let's start from the beginning. This chapter was quite ok at the beginning, much better than the previous ones (243: Hades "dozens years of experience" initially astonished by a few magi [give me a break], reinforcement _after_ attack [complete idiocy], Hades again astonished by unison raid [WTF?]; 244: Wendy saved by clockman [totally lame, same for explanation, after all these attacks hit others and they're still alive...], LOL dance magic [it completely does not suit respectful old Hades, making him a crazy geezer was really stupid], OMG Acnologia withdrawal...). So it was lacking all the silliness shown before. Laxus introductory speech was fitting him well (ok, "make a grave for him" is strange, he had grave before...). This time even _initial_ Laxus ownage was acceptable as he is (without any doubts) on completely different level than Erza, Natsu & Co. and he has great control over lightning to the extent of being able to transfer himself within them (which was shown before). Owning is exaggeration, it may just look a bit like that, but Hades was easily enduring his attacks and didn't show any signs of fatigue (which is crucial, after all, "dozens years of experience", different level... you know what I mean). Even if he wouldn't use Amaretsu 78.34, he already became acclimatized in this fight with Laxus, so from this moment he would definitely show real pawnage. But he used this superb spell, which hit Laxus even though he mangaed to escape via lightning and kick Hades. Thus Makarov's grandson was incapable of moving. So far so good. Now, if he would "continue" the fight from his place, it would be terribly inefficient and ineffective. Defending himself would cost him lost of magic and energy, without any gain. Possibly even more for trying overcome immobility. Therefore decision about magic "transfer" (it's not sure whether it's real transfer or not) is understandable if you think about it for a few secs. Lightning is as fast as light, so doing it in split-second was also ok. Thus I cannot really complain about first 73% of the chapter. The problems show now: Magic transfer itself Natsu's problems in eating not normal flames Laxus explanation Boost scheme Turning into commentator/advocatus diaboli: Is it really possible to transfer magic? Magic is somewhat combined with life energy. Thus real magic transfer should be permanent, not temporary, sending magic-life energy increases receivers magic capacity and abilities via assimilation. So far Natsu always got condensed magic in attack (with exception for Gerard, it wasn't an attack, because he gave him his Rebuke whatever on purpose), power-uping him only until he used it all. Now it is unclear, as it wasn't shown at all, whether Laxus used totally full-power attack towards Natsu, power-uping him only for upcoming fight, or he somehow transfered his magic into Natsu, meaning also he wouldn't survive Hades blast. "Thanks... for... the... meal." suggests it was only Laxus' full-power attack (meaning he'll survive this, because even though he said "That's every last bit of my magic", there are surely unmovable magic-energy reserves that could be ceded only via real magic transfer, so not using them he should stay barely alive). So Natsu should at least show some ill effects of eating lightning or lightining fire. Maybe Laxus was able to form a "fire" from his lightnings, but he wasn't using it so far in man-to-man battles, knowing that Natsu would eat them. Mashima can still defend it later in post-story talks or in the middle of fight insightful comments of others (I just "love" those...). "It's not about strong or weak... Who was the one hurt by all this? Someone with the guild's brand needs to handle this... " Ok, ok, NOT OK! It's total bullshit. Look into yourself, find mighty energy (with my help), and you'll win even against Hades! How much of this crap Mashima wants to serve us more? Miracles are ok, if they are rare, not in every arc, for damn sake. Does every arc must end up with Natsu's boost? WHY?! It will be somewhat accaptable though if he'll lose the fight, because he SHOULD lose even with Laxus' lightnings (and even Erza's requip, if she can transfer it to him...)! Even devil agrees with me! Almost last words: There is also a general important issue. Where the heck is Gildartz?! Its superiority over Laxus is pretty clear, so Mashima leaving him resting at the island is pretty insane. Also, there is no way that normal writer would allow Hades be defeated, as only Makarov, Gildartz and Laxus are normally able to fight Purehito at all. Mind that Makarov IS inferior to Hades (and even w/o his past illness, which repercussions were surely there) he wouldn't stand a chance against his master. We don't know how Gildartz really powerful is, but I think he's more powerful than Makarov by now, and would be the best opponent for Hades. Well, Laxus is worse than Gildartz, but still not bad, thus maybe combining Laxus agility and Gildartz powers there would be able to manage something, e.g. ending fight with some kind of draw, as they still shouldn't be able to win against such powerful enemy. Losing battle and even withdrawal (which may seem shameful) are sometimes necessary to move forward (i.e. avoid dying in vain) to win the war later. But as long as it is mostly kids-oriented story, I am afraid we won't see such thing, which is really a shame. Summary: Overall, chapter is good with exception for last 5 pages being a huge disappointment. So yes, I understand all your laments (I don't understand lack of them for previous chaps, though), but be fair, not whole chapter is bad, yet ending ruins it indeed.