(L) BLUE DROP ~Tenshitachi no Gikyoku~

[Kieli]

Originally Posted by scr

Spoiler for diplomatique:

actually, instead of guessing who Earthlings' representation is, i'm more interested in the material(s) that are to be negotiated.

my guess is:
- equality between Arume and Human in pursuit of love. it seems that the Arume was treating humans like lab rats and not considering them their equal ... until they found out what is going between Ekaril and Mari. because they see such noble love (remember that Arume's value is in self-sacrifice), they begin to consider equality with Humans.

but then, it seems that the negotiator woman is bitter. what could have happened ? dont tell me Ekaril died the heroic but nevertheless tragic way...

i dunno why i'm suddenly interested in diplomatics in general and UN in particular, must be the UNFCCC meeting in Bali. (scr is indonesian)

Spoiler:

You thought she sounded bitter? *ponders* I thought it was more introspective....perhaps more like a bittersweet memory.

I can understand being interested in the diplomacy aspect...until now, we're not really given any indication that negotiation was even an option Everything sounds more like "We're going to conquer, arrgh mateys!" and all of that. Wonder of sensei is involved with that too since she seems to have more covert knowledge of what might be happening (or rather, is involved with some group that also seems to be piecing together the events on the island).

Originally Posted by X207

ep10

Spoiler:

it looks like it will take considerable effort to get mari back to her sense, same goes for repairing all the damage on the ship from azanael. btw are there more than 2 ppl on the blue? all you ever see is ekaril and tsubael. how do arume ships get repaired? are there any automated systems to do the repairs.

Good question. I wondered that myself. Plot hole, maybe?

Episode 11 can't come fast enough. This is the first time I've found myself longing for Monday to come around again -_-

[X207]

Originally Posted by Kieli

Good question. I wondered that myself. Plot hole, maybe?

Episode 11 can't come fast enough. This is the first time I've found myself longing for Monday to come around again -_-

it might be a plot hole, but that would work. this series doesnt seem to have many plot holes at all.

[scr]

it's magic nanomachine.
those really small microcomputer things that move molecules around, giving machines ability to heal themselves. they're reasonably fast.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_goo
scary

[Kieli]

Originally Posted by X207

it might be a plot hole, but that would work. this series doesnt seem to have many plot holes at all.

True that could work...then one would ask why they would even need a crew at all. Blue seems to be sort of a one of a kind ship for some reason, almost as if it has some sort of sentience. It's kind of cool. I mean, what ship would be requested to monitor the brain wave patterns of its commander?! Tsubael, you peeping tom! *shakes fist*

[X207]

Originally Posted by Kieli

True that could work...then one would ask why they would even need a crew at all. Blue seems to be sort of a one of a kind ship for some reason, almost as if it has some sort of sentience. It's kind of cool. I mean, what ship would be requested to monitor the brain wave patterns of its commander?! Tsubael, you peeping tom! *shakes fist*

maybe that happened because of the loss of the crew 5 years ago. having humans/arume in control is good but the computers are able to handle many tasks. i see the brain pattern monitor as a standard feature that solidifies the commanders authrity to the blue's cpu.

[Kaoru Chujo]

The possible nanotech aspects of this show are a big plus for the science-fiction, in my opinion. The idea with nanomachines is that they would be on the order of the size of molecules or groups of molecules and they could build any material whatsoever from the molecules up.

The classic example, I think given by K. Eric Drexler, the father of this whole science, is that everyone might someday have in their kitchen a thing like a microwave with a funnel in the top. You would put in grass clippings and a bit of acetone and it would make you a steak dinner. Or it could make a pair of shoes, or a jacket, or a book, or maybe even a handheld computer. Not that any of this is anywhere near possible yet, but lots of very smart people are working to make it so.

If anyone's interested, here is Wikipedia's article on molecular nanotechnology (as this science is called). There is a debate over whether this stuff is possible even in principle, but I prefer to go with "yes" for now, lol.

Spoiler for ep10:

Nanomachines would be able to process raw material (like the remains of the exploded ship and dirt from the ocean floor) and in a way "regrow" the ship. That would explain how it was possible to rebuild after explosions like the one five years before or this one.

As I watched the ship leaping into the waves like a whale, I thought what stress that must put on all its joints. But with nanomachine-assembly, there might not be any joints, and things could just grow into whatever shape was needed. I also thought that the ship was probably not made of metals but of some super-hard substance created using molecules assembled by nanomachines.

Nanomachines of some kind -- or a fluid made by them -- could also be what transports oxygen through the Arume's bloodstream, making it clear or milky. I had previously noticed how pale Hagino was, compared to the other students. It's nice to have a reason built in by the people making the show.

I love the way the commander and the AI ("artificial intelligence" = Blue) are connected. It hearkens back to the director's previous show, Yukikaze. Yukikaze was an AI fighter plane. It took orders from the pilot, but sometimes it had to just act on its own, because human reactions were too slow.

In Blue Drop, don't all the ships have AIs similar to Blue? This would make it possible for crews to be very small. They are just there to keep tabs on the AI, which would do most of the real work, using nanomachines and larger machines to build, maintain, and run the ship.

[JediNight]

For all the advanced technology the Arume have, the ship sure seems stupid at times. Somehow Azanael was able to plant a transmitter in Onomil's necklace, have an active beacon in her ship, and set explosives all over the ship, yet no alarms are ever flagged.

[Kieli]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

The possible nanotech aspects of this show are a big plus for the science-fiction, in my opinion. The idea with nanomachines is that they would be on the order of the size of molecules or groups of molecules and they could build any material whatsoever from the molecules up.

You should see what they can do for biological applications. Dr. Scott Manalis with MIT's Media Lab is doing some awe-inspiring reseach using nanoscale sensing. You have got to read this guy's work. I started fangirling him several years ago when I found his work as a reference for my senior thesis. Thanks for that article, btw (Richard Feynman...now there's a name I've not seen in a long time). I'm definitely going to check that out.

In Blue Drop, don't all the ships have AIs similar to Blue? This would make it possible for crews to be very small. They are just there to keep tabs on the AI, which would do most of the real work, using nanomachines and larger machines to build, maintain, and run the ship.

I'm not sure if all of the ships in the anime are like Blue. I went back over the eps and couldn't find any type of interaction between, say, the Master Commander's ship and Blue. Azanael seem to treat Blue as sort of a new thing so....*shrug* I have no idea. It was just a speculation about Blue's seeming consciousness. Blue seems to anticipate Ekaril's needs and monitors her well-being and I found that intriguing.

Originally Posted by JediNight

For all the advanced technology the Arume have, the ship sure seems stupid at times. Somehow Azanael was able to plant a transmitter in Onomil's necklace, have an active beacon in her ship, and set explosives all over the ship, yet no alarms are ever flagged.

Hmm, I would assume Blue would have self-destruction technology (like Voyager or the Enterprise) in case it was ever seized by the enemy. Azanael may have simply activated that technology since she IS a Bridge Officer on her own vessel. She would have access to those codes, I'd imagine.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Since no sub for ep10 is out, I think we should be careful to put everything from there in spoilers.

Spoiler for ep10:

It seemed to me that the explosions were all in the aft part of the ship. The charges could have been in Azanael's flier, if that was recovered. Or the signal could have just triggered things that were already there for other reasons. The signals and the knowledge could come from the master commander. It's possible that there was nothing for Blue to see.

I can't find it easily right now, but I felt sure there was a scene on another ship, with a different AI voice, early in the series. However, from the way Blue was able to deal with the attacks earlier, I think Blue may have some special capabilities. By "Blue" I'm not sure if I mean the ship or the AI.

And thanks for the links to Scott Manalis's work, Kieli. I'm sure that the biological applications of nanotech will produce amazing things long before we get real molecular nanotech with "assemblers" (the little nanomachines that can build things). I think Blue already has for Hagino what he says is his ultimate goal: "...an instantaneous readout of a multi-dimensional parameter space..." of things going on in the body.

[FatPianoBoy]

Please understand that I'm not trying to lord the manga over anyone or discourage speculation. It's just that it's no fun for me when people are marching along a tangent that I know is inconsistent with the manga

I was initially pretty convinced that the woman in episode 1 was Mari, but I'm also beginning to think it's probably Micchi. Her facial structure seems closer to Mari's as well as her mannerisms.

I would venture that, rather than being a plothole, the seeming lack of a crew on the Blue is due to the advanced AI and the repairs are accomplished by nanomachines. Remember that the Blue was essentially a troop transport, so a skeleton crew isn't unlikely.

Spoiler for 10:

The Arume have clearish-white blood, because their symbiosis has reached such a level that they now depend on them to carry oxygen to their cells. It's this attention to detail that's got me so 'zomg >:3' over this creation, and it isn't limited to Arume biology. Peculiarities with the Arume are treated as a matter of fact, and are never overtly discussed in a longwinded, intrusive spiel.

[foux]

blue drop anime is different from manga...dont mix them together too much :P. It's been said many times allready. Some quotes about anime:
"Both manga series are set after the war while the anime is set before." "After a year and a half of planning, Asahi Production and BeSTACK produced the Blue Drop: Tenshitachi no Gikyoku anime series."

Theres no story consistency with manga, exept what happens after blue drop anime. Story was written especially for anime, theres no manga for that...so everything is possible. Or am i wrong?

[Dark Wing]

Originally Posted by Kieli

Good question. I wondered that myself. Plot hole, maybe?

I thought it was already establised that the entire crew was killed during the accident?...

[FatPianoBoy]

Originally Posted by foux

Theres no story consistency with manga, exept what happens after blue drop anime. Story was written especially for anime, theres no manga for that...so everything is possible. Or am i wrong?

No direct story consistency, but the universe and it's conventions would remain the same since they're confirmed by the author to be in the same timeline. For example, if Arume with black hair can exist in the manga, then the same holds true for the anime.

Spoiler for 10:

Conversely, if Arume in the anime have milky blod, then Arume in the manga must, as well.

I've lost count of how many times I've had to make that post...

@ Dark Wing: the entire invasion force was. The only member of the crew mentioned KIA was Onomil. If there was anyone else on the Blue besides those three on the bridge and the invasion force, everyone is pretending they didn't exist.

[Kieli]

Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy

No direct story consistency, but the universe and it's conventions would remain the same since they're confirmed by the author to be in the same timeline. For example, if Arume with black hair can exist in the manga, then the same holds true for the anime.

Spoiler for 10:

Conversely, if Arume in the anime have milky blod, then Arume in the manga must, as well.

I've lost count of how many times I've had to make that post...

Ookayy....but it was, and still is, always possible for the anime to introduce or explain things from the manga that are already taken for granted. Hagino didn't have to have dark hair like Yui from the manga, she could have had other traits. You're assuming that things from the manga had to be in the anime and that the anime must follow all of the conventions from the manga. Since the anime is a prequel, speculations about what could have happened prior to the manga are not inconsistent, within reason. For example, speculations about hair colour differences could very well have been explained within the anime in order to bolster what one already knows to be true in the manga. The manga doesn't specifically state why the hair colour difference exists so I don't see where the inconsistency lies. It's not a question of what exists in the manga (well not for me since I've already read the very first volume and know at least one half of the universe) of the how and why that the manga may not explain fully.

I've lost count of how many times I've had to make that post...

What? Reposting isn't fun? Maybe if you repost it enough you might convince us that you're right and that we're clearly wrong

Originally Posted by for Kaoru

Spoiler:

It seemed to me that the explosions were all in the aft part of the ship. The charges could have been in Azanael's flier, if that was recovered. Or the signal could have just triggered things that were already there for other reasons. The signals and the knowledge could come from the master commander. It's possible that there was nothing for Blue to see.

Spoiler:

I guess that would explain why Azanael's ship had that constant flashing beacon. It was probably waiting to be activated. If that's the case, the she probably stole Ekaril's flier to escape, leaving them sort of stuck to either fix Blue in a hurry, or sink to their deaths. Such lovely choices

[FatPianoBoy]

You're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm not talking about new information, I'm talking about things that have already been established, like the differences in hair color. It has been established that dark hair can be attributed to both pure Arume and those of mixed parentage, meaning that you cannot make assumptions about someone's lineage from that alone. It has been established that the Arume will invade and will win, and it will not be pretty. Now, how the war transpires exactly is still up in the air, and the anime may choose to cover some of that, but the outcome will remain the same. If there is a genetic oddity that causes dark hair in Arume, that may be explained, but there will still be both pure and mixed Arume with dark hair. I'm eager for any explanations from the anime that aren't covered in the manga
Foux's post, as I understood it, was saying that what is true for the manga is not necessarily true for the anime, which is simply not the case because the two have the same continuity. Both may introduce new information at any time, but that information will not conflict and will stand as canon for both mediums, as they tell the same story in the same universe at different points in time. I feel like this is what people aren't understanding for some reason.

[Sinestra]

SO its pretty much established that the Arume fuck up earth for like all time?

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

SO its pretty much established that the Arume fuck up earth for like all time?

Not matter what happens in between, the end result is the same for this world...

Aliens will have new toys to play with

On the subject of black hair...is it actually very rare for an arume to have black hair? master commander might have taken a liking to hagino because of that

Quite hard to find arts for this series but I tried ;_;

Spoiler:

and this

Spoiler:

[FatPianoBoy]

If

Spoiler for manga stuffs:

causing the sea levels to rise and killing a fifth of the population, defacing the landscape, and unleashing biological weapons which would remain active and dangerous for over a thousand years and necessitate the sacrifice of children to keep at bay...

then yes, they screwed it up pretty thoroughly. And that's not getting into what they did to human society.


Rofl at Kenzo enjoying Ekaril strangling her

[JediNight]

About those manga spoilers:

Spoiler:

Was all of that REALLY necessary to subdue the population given the technology gap? lol... And it also doesn't make any sense -- why trash the planet you're invading unless you can easily cleanup the mess later? You think they would have a counter-agent to those bioweapons at least. And I guess they made the oceans rise because they like water obviously? =D

[AnimeJock]

This may sound like a redundent question, but I don't want to read too much. I stopped on episode 1-9 last night. The website I saw it on only went that far. Again, please forgive me if it's been asked, but was 10 subbed yet?