2011-01-03, 08:56 | Link #21161 |
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Join Date: Aug 2009
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Decided to post it here, since Ep8 thread is being heavily moderated right now. Most of this post relies on post-Ep8 knowledge, so be forwarned. The post below (originally from Ep8 thread) was the prime catalyst of the speculating that follows. Fell free to consult Ep8 thread for additional info (the thread contains final Umineko spoilers, of course).
Spoiler for Ep8 knowledge that doesn't actually prove anything:
Spoiler for An outline of possible Battler culprit theory, just for the hell of it:
At least that kind of a reveal would make Umineko a passable mystery novel. What we have now is a train wreck of unfulfilled ambition, honestly. And btw I'm all with Sherringford, Iromaru and others regarding the fact that in its current (finished?) state Umineko is just a hoax and an insult both to the sizeable part of the fanbase and common sense in general (that's not to say I hadn't a blast following it, mind you, 'cause R07 is a good writer, unfortunately). And I find any arguments to the tune of "what do you mean it's not a mystery, we've never been promised one, it still has merit as blahblahblah" just laughable, frankly.
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Last edited by Dr. Akagi; 2011-01-03 at 09:59. |
2011-01-03, 09:05 | Link #21162 | |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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The idea is that Ep8 thread was solely based on events happening in Episode 8 and opinions. SInce there is no single truth disclosed, everything go through with speculations and whatnot, which fits this topic much better. I would have appreciate if you actually see the point of my actions and question it directly to me instead of claiming such slander.
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2011-01-03, 14:41 | Link #21163 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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...You HAVE played Higurashi, right? The most sympathetic characters, including the villain, are female.
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I'm not saying it really has merit as anything else, but.... The entire POINT of Chiru was the fight between those who wanted to open the catbox and 'defile' the story (the bad guys) and those who wanted to keep it closed out of respect to the dead (the good guys). Furthermore, it's not like the clues aren't there. This isn't Remember11; it only requires a little guesswork and connection of the dots to understand everything. But I'm sure you've heard all this before... |
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2011-01-03, 16:32 | Link #21165 |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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As I've said before, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and commits ritualized serial murders like a duck, it's a duck (who is also a ritualistic serial killer).
We can't possibly be saying that people who expected something based on what a thing was clearly appearing to be are somehow "missing it." Even if they're wrong, surely we could agree that intelligent people would expect, when they see a story full of elves and wizards, that what they're about to read is high fantasy? Sure, it might turn out to be a hard-boiled detective novel that happens to have a high fantasy setting. But can you really turn around and say "Well, you shouldn't have been surprised?" It's like a story about a character with strong conviction and faith receiving messages from God and helping people come around to faith and then at the end the author is like "lol God doesn't exist."* You'd be forgiven for thinking it was a religious novel, since it appeared to be one. *Apropos of nothing: Imagine Don Quixote written without a trace of irony.
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2011-01-03, 21:27 | Link #21166 |
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Age: 36
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Hi , I have a small question to those who read episode 8. It does not relate to either the mystery as a whole or the ending. What I would like to know is whether the whole Kanon/Jesica reletionship was elaborated in any way, in light of what we now know for certain about Kanon's rather well "elusive" nature.
With Gorge and Sahnon everything stil seemed clear to me even after all of episode 6-7 revelations, but with Jessica I somehow feelt that some more character study was needed to elaborate as to how she fell in love with the alter ego of her best and oldest childhood friend. If not then at the very least some insight or hint as to how their whole aquitance must have really looked like considering the reality of the situation. Was there anything at all,a small part of a dialogue or a creptic refrence would do. |
2011-01-03, 21:38 | Link #21167 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
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Well, anyway, don't hope for too much. |
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2011-01-03, 21:55 | Link #21168 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Age: 36
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2011-01-03, 23:55 | Link #21170 |
Sea Kitty
Join Date: Jan 2011
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I really like your ending scenario. That's kinda what I was hoping would be one of the possibilities. But so far, looks like it's not going to happen.
What I am really DYING to know, though, is whatever happens to Bernkastel in this game??? I've heard a few spoilers about her and some mystery game, but I don't know too much beyond that except... Spoiler for ...:
I recently finished reading the episode 7 tea party, and I must admit I haven't been feeling too gracious towards Bern since then (I believe Dlanor could adequately sum up my feelings during her temporary lapses of insanity). What I am anxious to know is this: Does karma bite Bernkastel in the butt or what? Please give me details if you know them. I would appreciate it so very much and will worship your name(s) for the rest of my life. :3 |
2011-01-04, 00:12 | Link #21171 | |
The Clown from the abyss
Join Date: May 2010
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2011-01-04, 00:16 | Link #21172 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Spoiler for ep8:
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2011-01-04, 00:28 | Link #21174 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Where you're not.
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Tell me everything you know, but especially the things you can verify. PM me if you want to avoid spoiling other people, or you could just post them here anyway and point out how major spoilers they really are if they really want to know.
I'm anxious to learn as many details as I can about the whole Spoiler for :
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2011-01-04, 01:18 | Link #21176 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2009
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The problem is, it makes me wonder what are those other people so satisfied with now? What are they seeing that I’m not seeing? Higurashi was an uneven attempt, it had corny ending but at least it worked as an above average horror story, as a pulpy mystery and even sent some important messages like "friends are good" (which I suppose clearly shows who its target audience was supposed to be ). And most of all, Higurashi was internally consistent, even painfully so, 'cause R07 went to great length to ensure that (even to the detriment of the last episode's quality as a piece of fiction). In short, Higurashi worked. But this mess called Umineko? It doesn't work as a mystery, it doesn't work as a fantasy, and it hardly even works as a cheap romance now, either. Mind you, that was all up in the air till Ep8, and could have been played any of those ways with some effort from 07thExpansion. But what we’ve got instead is neither of those things. It has no merit whatsoever in its finished form. It can't be even considered a literary experiment gone awry because of its inhumane length and the sub par quality of the writing throughout. The only good thing about this whole mess is music, which is excellent by the highest standards applicable. But I wasn't buying music CDs, you know. So the only thing that makes me curious is what are all the Umineko defenders so happy about now? What are they getting from that mess that I'm not getting? Is there anything redeeming that I fail to see? In short, what is the merit of the work? Really, I don't have a clue.
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Last edited by Dr. Akagi; 2011-01-04 at 01:30. |
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2011-01-04, 01:23 | Link #21177 | |
Sea Kitty
Join Date: Jan 2011
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2011-01-04, 01:40 | Link #21178 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Not every literary work has to have something like 'literary merit'. It's a serialized piece of pulp fantasy (that also functions as a alternate reality game) with really interesting themes, homages to the golden age of detective fiction, a vast host of silly, crazy characters, genuinely emotional and heartstring-tugging moments, and some of the greatest music in visual novel history. What's not to like about it? |
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