Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 18 Discussion / Poll

[FlareKnight]

Guess we'll just have to wait and see in regards to Setsuna's efforts. Has plenty of motivation on his side though I'm uncertain if he'll be able to get the upper hand. Will probably require some help if the other two jump into the apparent 1 on 1 fight.

Personally am thinking Graham can take down anybody if he puts his mind to it . Well at least depending on the level of damage he's willing to let his body take in the process.

[shaselai]

I dont really see louise and he bf's role in this... seems to be filler and comedy relief... Unless her bf go berserk and becomes a key char/pilot next season hunting down the gundams? but right now they are just a waste of air time

[Kisuke06]

Originally Posted by shaselai

I dont really see louise and he bf's role in this... seems to be filler and comedy relief... Unless her bf go berserk and becomes a key char/pilot next season hunting down the gundams? but right now they are just a waste of air time

I think the same. But it's not like Saji can become a pilot in one day, he needs practice, something that can only happen if they decide to jump a few years on the show(you know, maybe the second season will take place some years later). This is not like GL where you can pilot a robot just with will power. =p

But I think this is highly unlikely to happen. I have no clue whatsoever of how Louise and Saji will join in the main story.

[kira-sama]

for me
Graham or four gundam meisters would take all of the throne down (especially Nena)
i really hope that Nena be lost as soon as possible
how can she like that see someone had a party and then shoot them all
same with her brothers just said "what are you doing?"

and then for Saji
we can't know until next episode will he revenge celestial being or just on beside louise to make her more spirit

[shaselai]

Originally Posted by kira-sama

for me
Graham or four gundam meisters would take all of the throne down (especially Nena)
i really hope that Nena be lost as soon as possible
how can she like that see someone had a party and then shoot them all
same with her brothers just said "what are you doing?"

and then for Saji
we can't know until next episode will he revenge celestial being or just on beside louise to make her more spirit

I hope so. It would be a good transition to get rid of the thrones at the end of season 1. I think this series there are just way too many characters introduced with 3-5 factions and all. I thought Marina was going to be somewhat important due to intros but now her "story" is pretty much over. I know they are trying to cover all aspects of the conflict but it might end up where everyone get some screentime but not many "memorable" characters.

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by shaselai

I dont really see louise and he bf's role in this... seems to be filler and comedy relief... Unless her bf go berserk and becomes a key char/pilot next season hunting down the gundams? but right now they are just a waste of air time

The only plot progression this series has experienced has come from the Saji and Louise corner. Personally, the Gundams are more like filler than pretty much every other group dynamic in the series, from Soma and Sergei, Graham, Saji, and Louise. Not Ali since that guy has no goals other than pissing Setsuna off.

Gundams run in, pass judgement, kick ass, and run away for no other reason than they can.

[Narutaro]

I don't think we can say Gundam themselves is filler, the whole world is changing because of Gundam and CB, even the 3 world power acts in response to Gundam and CB. Saji and Louise is what you can call filler since they're only an observer from civilian point of view early in the series. their only connection is that Setsuna is Saji's neighbour, even then they don't spent much time to elaborate that. none of their action affect CB, that's why many people don't like them that much because they don't add anything to the story and that screentime can be used for much better use to develop more into the meister or the aces.

after ep18, I'm sure their role will change somewhat, although I can never see Saji to suddenly become a mobile suit pilot or suddenly change into super genius engineer that he can find his way to Union working with Billy, both scenario seems far fetched to me. I think the only feasible scenario is through Setsuna as Saji's neighbor or through Saji's sister being targeted by thrones

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by Narutaro

I don't think we can say Gundam themselves is filler, the whole world is changing because of Gundam and CB, even the 3 world power acts in response to Gundam and CB. Saji and Louise is what you can call filler since they're only an observer from civilian point of view early in the series. their only connection is that Setsuna is Saji's neighbour, even then they don't spent much time to elaborate that. none of their action affect CB, that's why many people don't like them that much because they don't add anything to the story and that screentime can be used for much better use to develop more into the meister or the aces.

It's not Saji's and Louise's fault that the Meisters and their purpose hasn't been elaborated on. We've had eighteen episodes to do that and haven't gotten anywhere worthwhile with that. Only a vague sense that they were all negatively effected by war and conflict in some way and have decided to lash out like children at the world in a heavy handed manner.

[DJ_RockmanX]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

It's not Saji's and Louise's fault that the Meisters and their purpose hasn't been elaborated on. We've had eighteen episodes to do that and haven't gotten anywhere worthwhile with that. Only a vague sense that they were all negatively effected by war and conflict in some way and have decided to lash out like children at the world in a heavy handed manner.

Conversely, it's not the Meisters' fault that Saji and Louise had fairly useless actions up until this episode. The only thing provided with them was the civilian perspective, while the events of the world unfolded around them. It's an interesting storytelling technique, but it also struck me as boring more than once.

[Narutaro]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

It's not Saji's and Louise's fault that the Meisters and their purpose hasn't been elaborated on. We've had eighteen episodes to do that and haven't gotten anywhere worthwhile with that. Only a vague sense that they were all negatively effected by war and conflict in some way and have decided to lash out like children at the world in a heavy handed manner.

I'm not necessarily want more time spent on the aces and meisters, it's just that all that screentime used on Saji and Louise can be spent for something more substantial. meisters and aces is just an example of what they could show instead of saji and louise, hell, perhaps show more about Kinue's research so we know more about CB, that will be way more interesting than Saji and Louise

not saying I hate Saji and Louise scenes in earlier episode, I think it served its purpose, if we hadn't seen them that carefree in earlier eps, this ep won't be as strong as it is now. I just think they spent a bit too much built up just for this ep

[germanturkey]

i actually enjoy the Saji and Louise scenes. this is the first gundam to portray the impact of war on civilians this well since 0080.

[Vorenus]

I am a Gundam fan for more than a decade and I was fairly disappointed by Gundam 00 so far... so much that I didn't even post anything here about it so far.
(and as it is the only episode that I actually liked, I'm posting here with my most immediate impressions after the first watch of this episode...)

The story was dragging, slow, and the plot wasn't progressing at all, and the characters weren't really developped or anything... but this episode is in my opinion the turning point... too bad that it took 18 episodes to get there ! Almost the first season of Gundam 00 !

First, I don't know for you, but the scene where Nena kills in the most gratuitous manner everyone at Louise's mansion was hardly bearable to me...
Greatly done but hardly bearable since it is so evil and so gratuitous... and I have been watching Gundam for a long time : I have seen colonies getting wiped by lasers, etc, or even Setsuna killing his own mother in cold blood and I wasn't particularly shocked... but there...

First, they were civilians who did absolutely nothing wrong or weren't part of any objective : when, in the UC universe the Titans gased colonies or shot them using a giant laser killing thousands of civilians, they had a political or strategical purpose to do so, as contestable at it is...
Same when Ali asks Setsuna's and his Jihad comrades to kill their own parents : it is not done just for the heck of being evil, but to break the psychological links to their pasts so they can be manipulated easily and be ready to give up their lives at any times...
There things are pretty different... no purpose, no reason making sense... she just "did it for the lulz" and that's what makes it in my book one of the most evil act even commited in any Gundam series.

It is also particularily disturbing that it was done by Nena who has a side of cheerfulness... even though nobody missed the "I am a psychotic girl" hints of the previous episodes, it is more disturbing when such sinful acts are commited by a cute and seemingly cheerful girl...

Then, congrats to the director, because for me to feel sorry for a useless and annoying girl as Louise in 5 minutes... it really requires great skills (or a Geass)... ;-)

The plot moves forward very quickly in this episode : The Meisters are powerless and just ponder while trying to understand what actually happened... the fact they can't rely on Veda, which was at 90% of the basis of any of their strategy anymore is a great hit to them...

Meanwhile, we know that the Ptolemy's Meisters team can't tolerate this :

In Setsuna's case, who considers a Gundam to be a material incarnation of God, he can't agree with undiscriminate killings that can't be justified by eradicating conflicts or making the World a more peaceful place than it currently is...

In Lockon's case, we know from his background he lost his family in Terrorism and fighting it is one of his main motives to be in CB... and what Nena did at Louise's mansion can really be compared to Terrorism (actually, it is even worse, since Nena's killing sortie didn't have any purpose, while Terrorists attacks "at least" have a legitimate purpose from their wicked point of view).

I don't think even Hallelujah would agree with this kind of psychotic killing : The Evil side of Hallelujah so far has only appeared to carry tasks that Allelujah was too good hearted to carry successfully... even if some Celestial Beings missions can be considered quite high on the evil-meter (the Super-Children institute destruction comes to mind) by some, Hallelujah's psychotic personality never got out of the scope of an official CB mission advised by Veda and thus can be considered mostly under control, which doesn't seem to be the case of Trinity sibilings (or at least Nena, but we can all bet that the two others are possibly even more crazy, psychotic and evil than she is).

Tieria is too busy crying over the rape of her (his ?) beloved Veda who now even denies him...

To Sumeragi, the Thrones have killed the Eifman Professor, from which she used to be close to and her previous boyfriend Billy was badly wounded during the attack...
That said, her reasons to hate the new Gundams are probably not as good as for the others characters because she could have had to supervise a mission whose results would have injured or killed the Professor or Billy anyway as they are part of one of the 3 super-powers military...

I doubt Setsuna's sortie has been approved but it is in-character for him to behave that way and he is right in considering that from the CB-we-used-to-know point of view, the Thrones actions deserve an armed intervention against them...

Now, the Thrones Gundam seem so much more powerful than their Ptolemy's counterpart that it seems a bit difficult to believe Setsuna and his partners will manage to overpower them...
It seems that the Thrones weak point is that their Solar Generators only provide a limited energy supply and thus can run out of energy ala SEED... which is a tactical advantage for Exia and friends...
Also, the Trinity's are supposedly alone, while Ptolemy's team have tactical analyst Sumeragi which is another advantage for Setsuna's team on the battlefield... altough Sumeragi accomplishments so far are questionable at best and she was helped a lot by Veda, which they more or less can not trust anymore !
Granted, it seems that the Thrones have their Veda equivalent, but we don't yet fully understand what it is and how it compares to Veda...

I believe the rest of the world will also get sick of the new Gundams and find that the times were much more peaceful during the good old CB's intervention, that sure were very annoying and unpleasant, but not as extreme... and as far as armies were disharming themselves or not conducting military operations, they were left in peace and didn't have much to fear...

I would like to think of Ptolemy's temporary allying themselves with the big 3 to stop this bigger menace, but as inferior the Thrones' GN drives are implied to be, I assume that the CB still doesn't want this technology to fall into the hands of the superpowers because once that happens, CB's hope to end warfare (or whatever their true goal is) is going to end with their technical and military superiority...

Maybe that's why Graham managed to get a Throne beam saber... which is likely to get reverse engineered like crazy by the Union scientists... (I got N-Jammer Canceller "vibes" during that scenes)
Little plot-hole here maybe : Nena and Michael could have stepped in and outnumbered and overpowered Graham.
Even with him being in berserk mode and pioiting his even more boosted flag and in berserk mode... he would have been no match against 3 overpowered Gundams.

I'm not sure where Saji fits in all of this... I would like to think of him joigning CB or any other military but he doesn't have any particular skill to make any difference in such a conflict where even elite pilots like Graham lose roughly 3 times out of 5, when they don't die on their first appareance...
Considering her sister is doing some great investigation and uncovered some informations about the Thrones that even most (if not all) CB people know about, it is not unlikely that she would get a "You have witnessed too much" BSOD later, which would anger our little Saji even more...

Well, it is getting interesting finally... but... why did it take so long ? It should have happened at least 4 or 5 episodes ago, but it is nice to see the series on track... hope it keeps getting on the good way...
The plot suspense has reached a new level (are the Thrones actually part of CB or did they just steal the technology ? etc) and for the first time, I'm eager to see the next ep : a well deserved 10 from a demanding Gundam watcher !

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by Narutaro

I'm not necessarily want more time spent on the aces and meisters, it's just that all that screentime used on Saji and Louise can be spent for something more substantial. meisters and aces is just an example of what they could show instead of saji and louise, hell, perhaps show more about Kinue's research so we know more about CB, that will be way more interesting than Saji and Louise

not saying I hate Saji and Louise scenes in earlier episode, I think it served its purpose, if we hadn't seen them that carefree in earlier eps, this ep won't be as strong as it is now. I just think they spent a bit too much built up just for this ep

I didn't see Louise and Saji as mere entertainment. It's not simply the "Civilian Perspective". It's the contrast with everyone else in the series. The Meisters always have a heavy air about them. Saji and Louise are light-hearted and relatively care-free.

The Meisters have this enormous task they've undertaken for God only knows why, simply because they believe they should, without every justifying their belief, and the fact that no one can really stop them, but mostly because no one can stop them. They could quit at any time and live any other way, but their egos wouldn't be satiated that way.

Saji and Louise have no ambitions by comparison. They're content to live their lives as normal people do. Being together, Saji putting up with Louise because of her poutie, but non-meanspirited behavior, going through college together. Basically how everyone should live their lives.

There's definiently more virtue to be found in what Saji and Louise do daily than what the Meisters do.

[Edgewalker]

I don't think even Hallelujah would agree with this kind of psychotic killing : The Evil side of Hallelujah so far has only appeared to carry tasks that Allelujah was too good hearted to carry successfully... even if some Celestial Beings missions can be considered quite high on the evil-meter (the Super-Children institute destruction comes to mind) by some, Hallelujah's psychotic personality never got out of the scope of an official CB mission advised by Veda and thus can be considered mostly under control, which doesn't seem to be the case of Trinity sibilings (or at least Nena, but we can all bet that the two others are possibly even more crazy, psychotic and evil than she is).

I'd say they are both equally high on the evil/psycho-o-meter, however...

Hallelujah seem to be more "intellectually insane". He does enjoy killing, but also understands the purpose of the missions he has been given, and I doubt he would carry out a mission if he didn't agree with the philosophy behind its purpose.

Our flanderized little yandare on the other hand doesn't seem to care what her mission objectives are and probably doesn't really give a crap about "eradicating war". She's just in it for the joy of the kill. So while she and Hallelujah are both psychotic murderer's, unlike Hallelujah she seems to be a bit of a dimwit. If storytelling goes has normal, chances are were going to see a classic yandere breakdown were her insanity backfires....hopefully leading to her demise

[chitgoks]

that scene where saji was totally devastated after seeing louisse handless was dumb.. he acted like he couldnt marry her coz she doesnt have a left hand to place the ring.

could there be a possible gundam upgrade within the series?

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by chitgoks

that scene where saji was totally devastated after seeing louisse handless was dumb.. he acted like he couldnt marry her coz she doesnt have a left hand to place the ring.

could there be a possible gundam upgrade within the series?

Probably not the first season. Actually I don't think we'll see any upgrades in this series. A Meister will die with his suit. No exceptions.

And I didn't like how badly Saji seemed to take what happened. He should have been more confused than devastated, but there you go. Still anxious about their future. I'd like to think Louise's a strong girl that likes to pout, but we'll have to wait and see. She being the one to comfort Saji would be a sight to behold.

[cors8]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

Probably not the first season. Actually I don't think we'll see any upgrades in this series. A Meister will die with his suit. No exceptions.

And I didn't like how badly Saji seemed to take what happened. He should have been more confused than devastated, but there you go. Still anxious about their future. I'd like to think Louise's a strong girl that likes to pout, but we'll have to wait and see. She being the one to comfort Saji would be a sight to behold.

What do you mean Saji should have been more confused than devastated? I thought his reaction was perfectly natural and suited for him. Quite frankly, I'd be more annoyed if he just pounded against a wall yelling "Why?!?!?!"....

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by cors8

What do you mean Saji should have been more confused than devastated? I thought his reaction was perfectly natural and suited for him. Quite frankly, I'd be more annoyed if he just pounded against a wall yelling "Why?!?!?!"....

He entered the hospital on the basis that Louise had an "accident". He was probably bracing himself for a worst case scenario on the way there, since a person would naturally assume the worst. Between what probably was wrong to the most unlikely, but horrible of things.

He freaked quite a bit after seeing she'd lost her hand, and eventually broke down to his knees and cried in the middle of a dark hallway. I think a real person would have found a nice chair, sat down, sank his face into his hands, and wondered what was going on and what he should do. Not wail like a baby.

All in all, it was a good scene, but I think they're making spilled milk into a conflagration. She's lucky to be alive and in relatively good condition.

[k//eternal]

Even if it loses some of the symbolism, she's got her other hand, it's not like she can't wear the ring anyway. I thought there was a strange inflexibility there.

That said, I think if Saji had reacted less more people would make a fuss about that than the few who say he was overreacting.

[Terra]

It's the symbolism of not being able to wear the ring on her left hand that hurts so much. Plus Saji has been very interested in CB from the start and as soon as any info is available about them, he'll look it up. The attack on Louise's family is totally out of character for CB so far. Saji has never seemed to think of CB as bad. He's just tried to understand them. Then they go and do this to his GF. So yes he's confused. His GF has lost her family and been given an injury that'll never let her forget it. His world has been turned on it's head, and he doesn't know what to make of it anymore. So yes he would be confused and upset by what's happened.