[Manga] Naruto Chapter 570 Discussion

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Captain Commando

I'm pretty certain you missed my point. Just to be clear, I'm discussing this from an out-of-story perspective so, Bijuu's civil rights aside... I think the kyuubi warming up to Naruto should have been more gradual because "Kurama" is not some troubled adolescent who's struggling with family issues that can be solved within a chapter, it was supposed to be comprised of a massive ball of malevolent chakra, strong enough for people to sense its hatred in the air when Naruto is using it.

I read and understood your point about being treated equally, however I think considering what "Kurama" is comprised of (hatred), the author should have shown the transition much smoother than this, and not throw it all at the audience in such a short period of time.

I misunderstood you then, i thought you meant that because the tailed beasts are not human they do not have a human-like mind with intelligence and feelings.
I never disagreed with it being more gradual would be better, as you could read in my previous posts. What i meant there originally is that this graduality was never present, see how he just beats Neji in a fight and Neji is changed, even the head of the clan comes to Neji and does the before unthinkable. When he beats Gaara we see Gaara completely changed almost immedately without any further interaction from Naruto (next time we see Gaara he saves Lee's life, who he wanted to kill the last time we saw him). He does some talk and rasengans Kabuto then almost dies, but Tsunade changes her mind immedately. He changes even Nagato's thinking with one single conversation at the end of a bloody battle where many people died. The raikage changes his mind in one short conversation, and he does the complete opposite of what he wanted to do. What i meant was that Kishimoto was never a master of gradual changes, his priority seems to be to advance the story and make the battles more interesting.

[Apollian]

its fair to say that Naruto isn't in danger of Kurama turning on him. the kyuubi could only do those things because of Narutos hate. which he no longer has anymore. also if worse comes to the worse we saw Minato recreating the seal and Naruto went right back to himself when he fought pain.. So if Naruto learned this sealing jutsu.. Couldn't he do the same thing?. however it won't come to that, Kurama has been watching Naruto his whole life, his a true believer in Friend no Jutsu. and as far as we've seen, nobody has ever broken that Jutsu since the series started.

I want Kishi to show me the money with his plot holes, wasn't the kyuubi's chakra more violent that it burns the skin (ala Sakura) and also reduces the life span of Naruto with the damage its done to his body over the years. his body is much cooked or fried compared to bee's when Naruto is in his cloak. this will be interesting! still, in his Rukido mode, I see no burning of the skin what so ever, so what will Naruto's new cloak look like next week?
I guess maybe Kurama was damaging him because the Kyuubi and Naruto didn't get on, and now they are cooperating and working together Naruto may not experience those side-effects of the burns and acid like issues from the cloak... I believe the next issues will give us more answers than we had in many years.

[Cista]

Originally Posted by Apollian

I want Kishi to show me the money with his plot holes, wasn't the kyuubi's chakra more violent that it burns the skin (ala Sakura) and also reduces the life span of Naruto with the damage its done to his body over the years. his body is much cooked or fried compared to bee's when Naruto is in his cloak. this will be interesting! still, in his Rukido mode, I see no burning of the skin what so ever, so what will Naruto's new cloak look like next week?
I guess maybe Kurama was damaging him because the Kyuubi and Naruto didn't get on, and now they are cooperating and working together Naruto may not experience those side-effects of the burns and acid like issues from the cloak... I believe the next issues will give us more answers than we had in many years.

Back then, Kurama's will and chakra was linked, so I guess we could say, that's the reason why Naruto is not burning while he is using the cloak.

[Midnight Commander]

Originally Posted by james0246

LOL, Sorry, but I received many disturbing images based on this (in-bold) remark...

You know what, I thought to myself someone would probably take that sentence and make "something else" out of it, but whats really funny is that you're the last person I expected to be the one I guess I did leave it wide open

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

[...] What i meant there originally is that this graduality was never present, see how he just beats Neji in a fight and Neji is changed, even the head of the clan comes to Neji and does the before unthinkable [...]

Then I misunderstood as well. What confused me was the happy face you placed after saying "this is the way Naruto changes people", I interpreted that as you approving of these sudden changes of heart with characters like Nagato, Neji and Gaara. I see what you mean now, and I guess we're actually in agreement.

In my opinion, we should have been given several spooky scenes containing dialogue between Naruto and the kyuubi, much like the eerie themed conversation between Tobi and Sasuke, regarding Itachi. Early on the kyuubi would be tempting Naruto accomplish his goals in an evil way, then towards the end its Naruto's charisma and unfaultering resolve that begins to wear on the Kyuubi, and Naruto even challenges the kyuubi's worldview, etc. etc. To me, that would have been much more believable.

[Frenchie]

Originally Posted by Apollian

I want Kishi to show me the money with his plot holes, wasn't the kyuubi's chakra more violent that it burns the skin (ala Sakura) and also reduces the life span of Naruto with the damage its done to his body over the years. his body is much cooked or fried compared to bee's when Naruto is in his cloak.

Naruto's skin doesn't peel off when he has his cloak on. It peels off when he releases the Kyuubi further. Killerbee underwent the exact same effect when he went from the cloak version directly to Tailed Beast version when facing Sasuke. Meaning it's not really related to how much control they have over their Tailed Beast, but rather the balance between how much power they are utilising/containing. The basic cloak seems to have no great averse effects, nor does the full tailed beast form. It's that black cloak that peels off the skin that seems to be the worst form. (The one the Kumogakure duo facing Darui were using)

The Kyuubi's regeneration capabilities sort of help, but Naruto also has Sage mode at his disposal now to help him heal. The only reason he ended up being able to use Rasen Shuriken, if you recall.

[Ero-Senn1n]

I didn't see any bad effect on Bee from utilizing any level of 8-tails mode. A proof to this is also that Bee uses transformation as often as he wants, he doesn't look at this as a last resort (like Itachi or Kakashi using the MS, because it makes them blind on the long term and weakened on the short term). So it seems the only reason the kyuubi's chakra was damaging Naruto or Sakura was because it was kinda poisoned by the kyuubi's hatred.

[Merilyn Mensola]

i just see this pics..well..i post it because i think is really a badass pics..

The seal is open!

Spoiler:

i hope that in the next chapter, we see a full transformation...

[james0246]

^I'm hoping we see something new and different. A full transformation will just be the Kyuubi body we already know. So, it would be cool if there was something else Kishimoto could show us instead of simply another Bijuu body.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by james0246

^I'm hoping we see something new and different. A full transformation will just be the Kyuubi body we already know. So, it would be cool if there was something else Kishimoto could show us instead of simply another Bijuu body.

He already has the half-working demon chakra ball which is performed in human form, said to be impossible to do. The situation is similar to the rasenshuriken one, Naruto gains a new power and he succeeds to do the impossible. So i think there's a good chance that Naruto will fight most of this battle in human form, but i guess we all want at least half a chapter where he actually does the full transformation too. Bee also likes to mix his different levels of transformations, sometimes a full 8-tailed form and sometimes just some chakra arms. I guess about 2 chapters from now the situation might be that Kakashi and Gai and the other ninjas who arrived in the meantime will have to evacuate from the area because chakra balls flying left and right and blowing up random people. My guess is that Naruto will stop using full transformation because he will need the ability to dodge the chakra balls of 5 demons, for which he needs his human form speed. But in that form he initially wont be able to do damage, then he will have to break his human form limits and will succeed in shooting chakra balls towards the 5 demons while dodging their chakra balls at the same time.

[Merilyn Mensola]

Originally Posted by james0246

^I'm hoping we see something new and different. A full transformation will just be the Kyuubi body we already know. So, it would be cool if there was something else Kishimoto could show us instead of simply another Bijuu body.

Yeah..but first, i want to see Kurama fight..the 8-tails and 9-tails vs the others tails..this,will be awesome..i wonder if kurama show something different from the Bomb...and yes..i'm also interested how will be the new powers mixed between them..

[Frenchie]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

I didn't see any bad effect on Bee from utilizing any level of 8-tails mode. A proof to this is also that Bee uses transformation as often as he wants, he doesn't look at this as a last resort (like Itachi or Kakashi using the MS, because it makes them blind on the long term and weakened on the short term). So it seems the only reason the kyuubi's chakra was damaging Naruto or Sakura was because it was kinda poisoned by the kyuubi's hatred.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Frenchie

You have that one picture against dozens of others where nothing bad happened. Just look at the recent 2 anime episodes, Bee was going into beast mode multiple times and then transformed back without any noticeable bad effect. Sure one might have bruises and a bit of skin peeled off but at this level ninjas simply dont care about such things. Naruto on the island when first using his super speed broke his leg, but 1 or 2 days after that we see him fighting a whole Zetsu and zombie army as if nothing happened.

This picture shows Bee before his transformation, when using chakra shroud the skin might be replaced by that demon chakra but after the actual fight Bee never looked like being badly hurt and losing his skin or whatever, he looked healthy as always.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

My guess is that Naruto will stop using full transformation because he will need the ability to dodge the chakra balls of 5 demons, for which he needs his human form speed. But in that form he initially wont be able to do damage, then he will have to break his human form limits and will succeed in shooting chakra balls towards the 5 demons while dodging their chakra balls at the same time.

I'm not so sure. I bet if naruto can use the bijou tails at will like bee can, they will be able to block and absorb the chakra balls.

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

You have that one picture against dozens of others where nothing bad happened. Just look at the recent 2 anime episodes, Bee was going into beast mode multiple times and then transformed back without any noticeable bad effect.

I think we can chalk this up to kishi initially following suit with what happens when a character uses the more powerful cloaks and him simply not wanting to do it anymore. it seems he just stopped drawing the loss of skin and hoped everyone would forget about it. my guess is that since he started using the cloak forms in the story so much he realized that it made no sense for bee and naruto to keep shortening their lives that way.

[Hunter]

In this kind of story most powerful techniques possess a dangerous side effect to their users... The first time they use it. After that it becomes business as usual and these side effects are never heard off again.

Originally Posted by james0246

And this is why I hope none of the Konoha-11 pops up (save for maybe Sakura or Hinata)

Why in all hells would you wish so you mad, mad man!

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

I think that was more like "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" and it seems that for Kurama the most hated person is Madara.
[...]

I will quote only this since this is the crux of your argument, so yes but no. Had the author went this route (and it seemed it would be the case when faced with Edo Madara) I could have bought it but he didn't. We haven't a hateful Kyubi making the best out of the situation in order to fight his most hated ennemy.
We have -and I can't stress this enough- an happy fox bro-fisting Naruto.

Oh and on a side note I find pretty funny your point about equality and rascim on Bijuu in perspective of your old argument on summoned beasts being nothing but tool not standing in equal term with real human!

[james0246]

^Hinata and Sakura should appear so that we can finally end the whole "will they, won't they" storyline (with Naruto, not each other ). Otherwise, none of the Konoha-11 have any real storylines any more, so Kishimoto should keep the focus off of them completely (so as not to disappoint their fans even more).

[Kafriel]

It would suck a whole lot more if everyone suddenly stepped up to Naruto's level :P Except maybe if Lee opened up all 8 gates and joined the kage fight, and even then it would be the last thing he'd ever do.

we can finally end the whole "will they, won't they" storyline (with Naruto, not each other )

a man can dream...

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Hunter

I will quote only this since this is the crux of your argument, so yes but no. Had the author went this route (and it seemed it would be the case when faced with Edo Madara) I could have bought it but he didn't. We haven't a hateful Kyubi making the best out of the situation in order to fight his most hated ennemy.
We have -and I can't stress this enough- an happy fox bro-fisting Naruto.

That was before the bro-fist time. At that time the kyuubi gave some chakra only because he hated Madara so much, he said it clearly. Well that was my interpretation of what happened.

As for the this chapter, things have completely changed here, and it seems we all agree that the sudden change wasn't realistic enough. The whole thing looks like the author wanted to make the fight interesting as a good action shonen manga fight has to be, so he realized that Naruto must have a powerup now that he is almost beaten, and he must have it in one chapter. (i was expecting other allied forces to come to the rescue instead of what happened, and after that other ways of powerup) So he had a given time frame to do this, about 10-15 pages of this chapter, and he did it no matter how rushed it feels. I mean the continuity of the action was more important to him than the continuity of character development.

[Ulquiorra]

Originally Posted by james0246

^Hinata and Sakura should appear so that we can finally end the whole "will they, won't they" storyline (with Naruto, not each other ). Otherwise, none of the Konoha-11 have any real storylines any more, so Kishimoto should keep the focus off of them completely (so as not to disappoint their fans even more).

I think I'd rather see the Konoha 11 go through the Kishimoto ringer one more than our current Godzilla Wars with kaiju. At least then there would be something to talk about instead of the Kyuubi getting ready to bro-fist Naruto now. At worst, it will remind us when Naruto was good. Even if it fails.

Kishi proved with Choji last year that he can make up storylines for his side characters when he wants to. It wouldn't be hard to give something for the others to finish. A nice bow on each character as the manga ends.

And I doubt Kishimoto will ever end the whole Naruto/Sakura/Hinata/Sasuke thing, even if Sakura and Hinata show up during this battle. There will not be a happy ending to any of his couples. Including the side ones. He is the Joss Whedon of mangaka.

[james0246]

^Blah. The Chouji storyline was among the worst of last years many fumbles. He is the reason why I don't want Kishimoto to even consider adding other members of the Konoha-11 to the current story.

[Luminion Lancer]

-I'm with james on this one. Its not that I hate the Konoha-11 and the other more prominent side-characters (I've been wondering what happened to Karin and why she's not lending a hand), but why bother right at this stage? Naruto is, at this point in time, preparing to reach a brand new height of power. Chances are, if the Konoha-11 do show, they will only be showcased to fail and Jesus Naruto has to play The Messiah to rescue their sorry ass. Do you seriously WANT to see that and then start complaining about how someone had to save them from the fire?

-Put it this way: the longer Naruto/Kurama and Bee/Hachibi duke it out with NotReallyMadara and the rezzed beasties, the more there is a chance the 5 Kages/Alliance/Konoha-11 get to handle ZombieMadara (henceforth referred as Zombiedara) on their own without Naruto's assistance. Let the boy and his fox have their limelight now so the others can get in on it later.