AnimeSuki Forums

Dark Wing · 2017-11-22, 02:56

https://youtu.be/_akwfRuL4os

This is coming shortly after Belgium's Minister of Justice classifying loot boxes as a type of gambling and declaring plans to bring this topic to the rest of the EU.

I saw this coming the moment the esrb decided to push the loot boxes are not gambling narrative. People are now beyond the point of tolerance when it comes to these practices that they would rather see this industry burn to the ground if it meant something better can come out of it's ashes.

Shadow5YA · 2017-11-22, 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

This is coming shortly after Belgium's Minister of Justice classifying loot boxes as a type of gambling and declaring plans to bring this topic to the rest of the EU.

They did not. The most they said is that they will look into it.

Not to mention that Belgium is insignificant when it comes to the EU market to the point where EA could just skip over them entirely and focus on other countries.

I understand loot boxes are a hot topic for the gaming industry right now, but please look into what you read before you post. Nothing has happened (yet) in terms of government intervention and changing policy.

OH&S · 2017-11-22, 20:33

^
But it would be significant if it was taken all the way to the EU court and regulations were passed at that level.

Jazzrat · 2017-11-23, 05:12

It's good that the regulatory bodies is investigating into it. Considering the amount of attention videogames are getting from gambling communities and the revenues generated from loot boxes, we need authorities to step in before it worsen to detriment for the gaming community and industry as a whole.

While Belgium is a small country, it's also a part of EU and as a bloc, their policies can have wide spread effect globally. Better to have them take the initiative over corporate centric nations like US, Japan, Korea and etc.

Key Board · 2017-11-25, 06:58

remember when the ESRB was established as a form of self moderation to make sure the government does not interfere in video games

That seems to have worked well.. until now

So thank you EA and Capitalism for breaking things again

Yu Ominae · 2017-11-25, 21:17

I remember someone in my kendo class mentioning this because someone I know played Fate G/O and mentioned the gacha mechanics and the other guy told him not to put so much time there if you're spending money on it.

felix · 2017-11-26, 19:21

The problem with these systems has always been definition.
Find an airtight way to define them legally, and the problem goes away.

For example you could make game that doesn't ever have a relation with your wallet but some other company sells you things based on your stuff in the game, thereby being equivalent to the original company selling you things but otherwise "outside the law" as it were. Japan has had very similar issues with the so called gotcha and it's anti-gambling laws if I'm not mistaken.

The other issue is that outside the money problem, "randomness" does provide a solution to the "you're exactly the same as everyone else" to a certain extent (among other things), so it's not inherently evil by itself (for example if nobody payed for anything related to it) and does fill a niche that some people like very much. However at the same time, randomness in a game of "collectibles" breeds addiction. In some sense, the unhealthy kind. And randomness in the hands of evil money grabbing companies... well you have to wonder how "random" it actually is, if gambling machines are anything to go by.

How do you define the "bad apples" from the rest? How do you check & regulate? Cut too deep and you won't have a better industry, but none at all (recent ESRB change already affected some). Cut too shallow and companies like EA will do everything in their power to abuse it, because their philosophy is that it's right to steal and piladge since the only punishment is "you need to stop now" and they could care less if there's no game industry tomorrow.

---

This indirection & regulation problem is not even limited to the scope of gaming, as it's been pretty hot in other areas as well. For example how american companies to avoid regulations on monopolies simply stay separate but have "agreements" to the extent that they might as well be merged for all intents and purposes. At least, as far as oppressing consumers with nonsensical services typical of monopolies, them no being a monopoly is nothing but a joke.

Eventually enough junk piled out that the shortcomings of the laws would surface. And as it happened these recent years, of all crappy years, are the ones where these things seem to reach the tipping point. But I guess all bad things are caused by each other, and feed on one another, so this point was someplace we would get to if not now, some time later.

How fortunate that in these times we have the bestest of leaders & political stability to get us past this hump

Jazzrat · 2017-11-28, 06:26

So far, the arguments have been either trying to define loot boxes by the letter of the law or spirit of the law.

Personally, I lean against loot boxes. The system and psychology is too similar to gambling. It should be subjected to the same regulations as your usual gambling. This should help discourage games company from leaning so heavily on such system to increase their revenue while using under-18 friendly ESRB friendly label.

LoweGear · 2017-12-06, 02:10

[PCGamer]US lawmaker who called out Star Wars Battlefront 2 lays out plans for anti-loot box law

Some nice first steps, even if it's just a youtube video for now. While it won't eliminate lootboxes, it will heavily regulate it.

2017-11-22, 02:56	Link #1
Dark Wing Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Age: 38	US Representative pushes for loot box regulations https://youtu.be/_akwfRuL4os This is coming shortly after Belgium's Minister of Justice classifying loot boxes as a type of gambling and declaring plans to bring this topic to the rest of the EU. I saw this coming the moment the esrb decided to push the loot boxes are not gambling narrative. People are now beyond the point of tolerance when it comes to these practices that they would rather see this industry burn to the ground if it meant something better can come out of it's ashes. __________________

2017-11-22, 20:33	Link #3
OH&S Index III was a mistake Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Sydney, Australia Age: 32	^ But it would be significant if it was taken all the way to the EU court and regulations were passed at that level. __________________

2017-11-23, 05:12	Link #4
Jazzrat Bearly Legal Join Date: Jun 2004	It's good that the regulatory bodies is investigating into it. Considering the amount of attention videogames are getting from gambling communities and the revenues generated from loot boxes, we need authorities to step in before it worsen to detriment for the gaming community and industry as a whole. While Belgium is a small country, it's also a part of EU and as a bloc, their policies can have wide spread effect globally. Better to have them take the initiative over corporate centric nations like US, Japan, Korea and etc. __________________

2017-11-25, 21:17	Link #6
Yu Ominae ARCAM Spriggan agent Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Coquitlam, BC, Canada/Quezon City, Philippines	I remember someone in my kendo class mentioning this because someone I know played Fate G/O and mentioned the gacha mechanics and the other guy told him not to put so much time there if you're spending money on it. __________________ Even if we were at odds with each other, I still thank you for training me, Instructor Bowman - Yu Ominae, reflecting on Bowman's death after killing him in Phantom Island

2017-11-26, 19:21	Link #7
felix sleepyhead Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: event horizon	The problem with these systems has always been definition. Find an airtight way to define them legally, and the problem goes away. For example you could make game that doesn't ever have a relation with your wallet but some other company sells you things based on your stuff in the game, thereby being equivalent to the original company selling you things but otherwise "outside the law" as it were. Japan has had very similar issues with the so called gotcha and it's anti-gambling laws if I'm not mistaken. The other issue is that outside the money problem, "randomness" does provide a solution to the "you're exactly the same as everyone else" to a certain extent (among other things), so it's not inherently evil by itself (for example if nobody payed for anything related to it) and does fill a niche that some people like very much. However at the same time, randomness in a game of "collectibles" breeds addiction. In some sense, the unhealthy kind. And randomness in the hands of evil money grabbing companies... well you have to wonder how "random" it actually is, if gambling machines are anything to go by. How do you define the "bad apples" from the rest? How do you check & regulate? Cut too deep and you won't have a better industry, but none at all (recent ESRB change already affected some). Cut too shallow and companies like EA will do everything in their power to abuse it, because their philosophy is that it's right to steal and piladge since the only punishment is "you need to stop now" and they could care less if there's no game industry tomorrow. --- This indirection & regulation problem is not even limited to the scope of gaming, as it's been pretty hot in other areas as well. For example how american companies to avoid regulations on monopolies simply stay separate but have "agreements" to the extent that they might as well be merged for all intents and purposes. At least, as far as oppressing consumers with nonsensical services typical of monopolies, them no being a monopoly is nothing but a joke. Eventually enough junk piled out that the shortcomings of the laws would surface. And as it happened these recent years, of all crappy years, are the ones where these things seem to reach the tipping point. But I guess all bad things are caused by each other, and feed on one another, so this point was someplace we would get to if not now, some time later. How fortunate that in these times we have the bestest of leaders & political stability to get us past this hump __________________

2017-11-25, 06:58	Link #5
Key Board Carbon Join Date: Nov 2003	remember when the ESRB was established as a form of self moderation to make sure the government does not interfere in video games That seems to have worked well.. until now So thank you EA and Capitalism for breaking things again

2017-11-28, 06:26	Link #8
Jazzrat Bearly Legal Join Date: Jun 2004	So far, the arguments have been either trying to define loot boxes by the letter of the law or spirit of the law. Personally, I lean against loot boxes. The system and psychology is too similar to gambling. It should be subjected to the same regulations as your usual gambling. This should help discourage games company from leaning so heavily on such system to increase their revenue while using under-18 friendly ESRB friendly label. __________________

2017-12-06, 02:10	Link #9
LoweGear Secret Society BLANKET Graphic Designer Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: 3 times the passion of normal flamenco	[PCGamer]US lawmaker who called out Star Wars Battlefront 2 lays out plans for anti-loot box law Some nice first steps, even if it's just a youtube video for now. While it won't eliminate lootboxes, it will heavily regulate it. __________________ Against all the evil that hell can conjure, all wickedness that mankind can produce... We will send unto them, only you.