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Old 2020-10-25, 09:01   Link #61
Cosmic Eagle
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
 
 
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Marine x Flare

featured songs include: Cruel Angel's Thesis, Uchuu Senkan Yamato, Fuwa Fuwa Time, Saudade, Flamingo

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Old 2020-10-25, 23:24   Link #62
Cosmic Eagle
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
 
 
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Looks like Holo CN went independent. Fortunately they didn't have to shut down entirely. Let's hope being independent means they can fly under the radar without attracting shit more easily and that NMSlese don't go after them for whatever reason

Some of them don't even seem to be based in PRC (esp Artia) since streaming through the Great Firewall is going to be quite hard no? Unless their internet is fast enough to handle the VPN on top of that



https://www.twitch.tv/videos/782101898

Artia/Civia announcement stream. Both of them are kind of hanging since it's so rapid but looks like they may be able to bounce back. Sucks this had to happen but Bilibili are too toxic a platform for Cover
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Old 2020-10-26, 12:38   Link #63
~Yami~
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
Looks like Holo CN went independent. Fortunately they didn't have to shut down entirely. Let's hope being independent means they can fly under the radar without attracting shit more easily and that NMSlese don't go after them for whatever reason

Some of them don't even seem to be based in PRC (esp Artia) since streaming through the Great Firewall is going to be quite hard no? Unless their internet is fast enough to handle the VPN on top of that



https://www.twitch.tv/videos/782101898

Artia/Civia announcement stream. Both of them are kind of hanging since it's so rapid but looks like they may be able to bounce back. Sucks this had to happen but Bilibili are too toxic a platform for Cover
looking at several reactions from CN antis, I think we might be on wild ride of dislike bombs and bot spams for several weeks on all streams that featured Coco.
Hopefully Cover could do something again

Feels bad on Artia and the girls.. never manage to match my time to watch them but I'll try

anyway, Hololive is going strong lately since all the girls have returned (Miko, Coco, Haachama, Ayame, Kanata, etc).
HololiveEN collaboration is always a big hype as well
Even HoloID are doing well
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Old 2020-10-26, 23:09   Link #64
Cosmic Eagle
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Artia and maybe Civia are on Twitch so it's easy to watch them


The bot spams are on everyone now actually. Mostly Coco's but you can see random ones on even Marine's or Mio's occasionally.. it's usually spamming wikipedia passages....to what end I have no idea. I doubt Youtube actually cares
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Old 2020-10-27, 06:03   Link #65
EroKing
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Just some random clips.

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Old 2020-10-30, 06:45   Link #66
Cosmic Eagle
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Gods, YAGOO....can you and COVER leadership be anymore of a failure already, seriously....


Also quite disheartening to see the steadying radicalization creeping into the community with all these political BS. CCP NMSlese from Bilibili and JP nationalists from 5ch are well known but now there's a large influx of agitators from Hong Kong and extreme American hardliners as well. These destructive hypocrites will be the end of the community at this rate. It was never about supporting (certainly not harming) and enjoying people (the talents) for who they are and always their own delusions with these groups. And Cover's incompetence just further enables them
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Old 2020-10-31, 22:51   Link #67
DragoonKain3
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Huh, didn't know Asuki has its own Vtuber thread. XD

In any case, I'm a bit torn on what to feel about Cover. On one hand, they pulled a Blizzard and had to bow down to mainland China about Taiwan. Felt bad about Coco/Haachama, and especially the CN girls who really got the hurt despite not doing themselves wrong and was just taking collateral damage.

On the other hand, Cover DOES give opportunity to these girls. I've seen Suisei's story about her being THAT desperate to get into hololive, because she simply couldn't do it alone. Even more recently, Mori lives in a literal shithole streaming with a crappy laptop DESPITE working 3 jobs. She was only able to move out (and quit her tutoring job?) recently all because of her earnings in hololive.

Before I was actually apprehensive as these corporations sounds like they exist just to pretty much milk desperate people, and they bind them up in unfair contracts simply because these people don't have a choice. But seeing the story of Suisei, and that HoloEN decided to leave their past lives DESPITE some of them have a decent following... I started to be unsure whether Cover was as evil as I thought they were, if these people are going to great lengths to stream under the Hololive name.

And now that Cover is alright with letting their CN girls keep their avatars/equipment as compensation? If I understand correctly, they're trying to do their best to do right for the girls even though they're probably not legally bound to. Yeah, nothing official yet, but I feel Cover could have TOTALLY screwed over these girls and still legally get away with, only for them to take the high road.
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Old 2020-11-01, 02:07   Link #68
Cosmic Eagle
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
 
 
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I doubt Cover is malicious but they are flat out incompetent for sure.....Tying themselves to Bilibili? Encouraging the toxic idol culture among the fanbase instead of promoting a healthy atmosphere of enjoyment for talent and fans alike? All these issues they set up themselves.


Quote:
And now that Cover is alright with letting their CN girls keep their avatars/equipment as compensation? If I understand correctly, they're trying to do their best to do right for the girls even though they're probably not legally bound to. Yeah, nothing official yet, but I feel Cover could have TOTALLY screwed over these girls and still legally get away with, only for them to take the high road.
This was never true BTW. Only word was that they were allowed to go independent but without equipment IIRC, so they switch to whatever it is indie VTubers use which is honestly pretty good equipment these days

But then things happened and even the whole prospect of independence is now off the table so no one knows anything. Whole thing reeks of Bilibili trying to one-up Cover in a commercial coup and failing

And then now you have the shithead nationalist otaku from EN/JP/CN/HK communities worsening everything by doxxing and counter doxxing Coco and Artia and it works only because these people treat the girls as perfect fantasies and their possessions rather than actual people......Cover set themselves up for it by aiming at and cultivating this kind of customer base really


Quote:
On one hand, they pulled a Blizzard and had to bow down to mainland China about Taiwan. Felt bad about Coco/Haachama, and especially the CN girls who really got the hurt despite not doing themselves wrong and was just taking collateral damage.
It's not that simple. But mindless "fans" thinking in terms of black and white world views are doing all the damage for the ones who orchestrated this....If even just one side of the fandom would live and let live, then a good chunk of the harm done to the talents JP or CN, would evaporate and the competing companies would lose some of their power
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Old 2020-11-01, 06:37   Link #69
wuhugm
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Old 2020-11-01, 07:58   Link #70
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As said, I knew it would be a shitshow when they suspended Coco and Haachama
I knew that Japan's own right wing netouyo would be involved. Especially if it made mainstream news.
And yes, anti-Chinese sentiments are high right now, so it was inevitable that other anti-China factions would be involved.

Sadly, Cover is not the only corporate side that is agitating this.
Cover is boycotted by several CN companies right now. Don't expect any more Azur Lane collabs.
They might divorce from BiliBili
I don't think we've seen anything like this, and I wonder if it will set a new standard.

I think the only thing Cover can realistically do now is hire more chat mods, and prepare for more HoloCN fallout.
Because they've burned bridges with CN market for at least a few years.

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Old 2020-11-01, 09:51   Link #71
Cosmic Eagle
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Originally Posted by Key Board View Post
As said, I knew it would be a shitshow when they suspended Coco and Haachama
I knew that Japan's own right wing netouyo would be involved. Especially if it made mainstream news.
And yes, anti-Chinese sentiments are high right now, so it was inevitable that other anti-China factions would be involved.
It's mainly EN, HK and CN people fanning the flames. JPs are largely from the sidelines for now. Not everything is 5ch. /hlg/ /jp/ and the HK people are just as rabid if not worse. Honestly these people and the NMSlese from China deserve each other

The ones mounting the anti campaign against Artia are 4channers and HKers/Chinese speakers on Twitter. Ironically, some of them were also part of the campaign against Aloe, so yeah speaks volumes about how much they actually care about the talent themselves despite how they try to paint themselves as different from the CN NMSlese

Cover is beholden to them only because of their purchasing power. If they actually decided to settle for reduced profits by cultivating a core fan base and telling these groups to get fucked then there's really nothing said groups can do except make noise. Might also even set an industry example.

Quote:
Sadly, Cover is not the only corporate side that is agitating this.
Cover is boycotted by several CN companies right now. Don't expect any more Azur Lane collabs.
They might divorce from BiliBili
They should divorce. I don't know why they never foresaw this. Especially when Bilibili is so losely run. The various translation and management groups for CN are more like sub-contracted by Bilibili and are disgruntled at the poor treatment they get from Cover. They are also nationalist and otaku as hell. So of course they would back any coup by Bilibili against Cover.

This was less about nationalism from the start and more a front for corporate rivalry. So of course the negotiations for the CN girls' departure are now jeopardized given how many corporate bad actors are involved. Cover practically asked for this. One wonders if they even did any research before entering China

Chat spam is honestly a minor and petty issue compared to everything else

Quote:
I don't think we've seen anything like this, and I wonder if it will set a new standard.
You want a new standard that will prevent further drama, try an idol company that actually promotes an atmosphere and viewer base that treats their talent as human instead of wish-fulfilment objects. Else you are still going to get issues from the EN and JP sections in future even after the divorce from Bili is done, if it's done.

But yeah, right, that's not going to happen since it rakes in the money.
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Old 2020-11-01, 15:37   Link #72
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treating idols as people instead of assets would be an improvement, but I don’t see how it would prevent all of this from happening?

I feel like it’s 2 different issues?

As you said bad actors will weaponize what they can and they don’t even need to be actual fans
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Old 2020-11-01, 22:06   Link #73
Cosmic Eagle
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Originally Posted by Key Board View Post
treating idols as people instead of assets would be an improvement, but I don’t see how it would prevent all of this from happening?

I feel like it’s 2 different issues?

As you said bad actors will weaponize what they can and they don’t even need to be actual fans
Because a good chunk of the fan base expect them to be perfect and infallible rather than actual people.

Hold the wrong political view? They don't just lash out and drop them like with most entities that become involved in such things, they harass for months on end and even try to get them IRL because there's the added element of perceived betrayal. It applies to any other controversial view also.

The weaponization of whatever issues loses its potency if the viewers weren't so sensitive. You can't cancel someone whose core base will just shrug and go "whatever, that's life. Not as if the VTuber is a murderer or something."

If you want demonstration just go roam Bilibili or 4chan. Those people are hurt as if someone killed their loved one. Some think they are defending Aqua or whatever girl they worship from evil Artia/Coco. It's pitiful to see.


In case it isn't clear, I don't mean Cover treating their people right, because by most accounts they are OK in the staff-staff interaction aspect. What I mean is nurturing of a saner viewer base. Hell, it might even catalyze reform in the idol industry as a whole if people see they can get by without exploiting otaku with issues.
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Old 2020-11-01, 22:50   Link #74
Key Board
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I think you are right that when it comes to idols or famous people, There will be extra scrutiny, and people will try to read deeper into a possible motive whenever they do something. And yes, sometimes there isn’t a motive.

Did Coco even make a political statement.She just read some statistics.
It was turned into a political statement when Cover agreed that it was a problem and suspended her.
That to me, was the real issue.

This has less to do with fan being zealots towards and idol, and more about some people being zealots towards a doctrine .

You are right that AquaÂ’s interactions from now on will be hyper analyzed by both sides, though. But that isnÂ’t a toxic idol thing, i think. It’s ’s a toxic culture wars thing
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Old 2020-11-01, 22:50   Link #75
DragoonKain3
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Well, nice to know Cover isn't some evil entity. I can forgive incompetence to some degree - I mean, they're letting their talent do pretty much almost whatever they want... THAT was going to backfire on them sooner than later. Hindsight is 20/20, but I do agree, if they're that much deeply invested in the CN market with partnerships with Bilibili, then they SHOULD have told the girls to keep the word Taiwan out of their vocabulary. But alas, giving the girls freedom comes with a price, and sometimes the repercussions really is THAT big of a deal.

As for their reaction to suspending Haachama/Coco for a few weeks, while I still don't agree with it, I can see the reason why they did it. Whatever Haachama/Coco did may not affect them personally, but even then I knew the CN girls were in BIG shit through no fault of their own. The business model of these Vtubers are mainly through the "whales", and if you piss them off.... well, there goes most of the income (to the point where the model becomes unsustainable).

And that's not going into whether Cover as a company is pretty much kicked out of the platform (or even the region) outright. TBH, at this point I'm just glad that Haachama/Coco wasn't forced to quit, and all I'm hoping for now is Cover having an amiable parting with the CN girls.

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NGL, can't get enough of Same-chan. Finally hearing a PROPER rendition of Country Road coming out of that mouth is worth every penny of my membershrimp. XD

And that "GET OVER HERE!" moment with Ame sure was LMAO
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Old 2020-11-01, 23:06   Link #76
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Key Board View Post
I think you are right that when it comes to idols or famous people, There will be extra scrutiny, and people will try to read deeper into a possible motive whenever they do something. And yes, sometimes there isn’t a motive.

Did Coco even make a political statement.She just read some statistics.
It was turned into a political statement when Cover agreed that it was a problem and suspended her.
That to me, was the real issue.

This has less to do with fan being zealots towards and idol, and more about some people being zealots towards a doctrine .

You are right that AquaÂ’s interactions from now on will be hyper analyzed by both sides, though. But that isnÂ’t a toxic idol thing, i think. It’s ’s a toxic culture wars thing
There is a big difference between "Aqua is a chicomm! What a two-face!" and "Aqua is a chicomm! I'M HURT! I'M BETRAYED! This is PERSONAL!" both are bile but one is actually physically dangerous to the VTuber. It's the kind that gives birth to stalkers and people intent on driving their targets to suicide. Doctrinal zealotry is bad enough but combined with man-child otaku thinking it become outright bad. You can't do anything about the former but you can at least not appeal to the latter in building your customer base

Without the physical danger it's all just noise and corporate fallout TBH

Quote:
The business model of these Vtubers are mainly through the "whales",
Which is very stupid
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Old 2020-11-02, 20:06   Link #77
DragoonKain3
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If you look at it, Cover is earning literal millions through people who are "waifu whaling", so I wouldn't be so fast to label such a business model as 'stupid'. Heck, considering these people are going full-on "SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!" while getting nothing physical in return, some may even say such a business model is pure genius.

And considering Cover literally lost two generations and an entire region's worth of revenue, the objective side of me feels like a three week suspension is merely a slap in the wrist. If Cover really wanted to keep CN, anything short of firing Coco/Haachama would fail to appease the opposition.

So who knows, there may be an alternate universe where such a case happens, as much I shudder at the thought of it. But I for one am glad I live in this particular universe, as Haachama and especially Coco paved the way for HoloEN, and I would choose them over the CN girls in a heartbeat. So for that I can't help but feel thankful for Cover for making the "right" decision to reinstate the two girls I favour.

Maybe that's just me though, wanting to see the situation as 'glass half full'. YMMV of course.
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Old 2020-11-03, 01:17   Link #78
EroKing
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Old 2020-11-03, 08:40   Link #79
dragon1412
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I'm rather skeptical toward Hololive CN from the start, PRC aside, bilibili is rather famous for it issues with anti and there is always a lot of suspicion of themselves in regard to deal with foreign company. In China, the platform is limited from the start and it almost a guarantee that Chinese will stand with Bilibili in case there is a dispute with Cover or any foreign companies, analytical people exist, but majority will stand simply because they only knew bilibili. I don't know about the treatment of translators though

To be fair, if Cover wanted the CN market that much, they should at least warn the talents about the issues of Taiwan in the 1st place, especially consider the current politics at the moments, it's fine to let talents have freedom, but at least some warning about political issues should be made. Though a separation from bilibili might not be that bad from my views.
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Old 2020-11-04, 23:48   Link #80
Cosmic Eagle
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
 
 
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I'm rather skeptical toward Hololive CN from the start, PRC aside, bilibili is rather famous for it issues with anti and there is always a lot of suspicion of themselves in regard to deal with foreign company. In China, the platform is limited from the start and it almost a guarantee that Chinese will stand with Bilibili in case there is a dispute with Cover or any foreign companies, analytical people exist, but majority will stand simply because they only knew bilibili. I don't know about the treatment of translators though

To be fair, if Cover wanted the CN market that much, they should at least warn the talents about the issues of Taiwan in the 1st place, especially consider the current politics at the moments, it's fine to let talents have freedom, but at least some warning about political issues should be made. Though a separation from bilibili might not be that bad from my views.
Bili translators were treated pretty bad. IIRC, no formal contract, low pay, largely nationalistic kids just working part-time jobs. Jealous of overseas and JP fans not appreciating them etc. So ofc they jumped at the chance to join Bilibili's coup against Cover due to the resentment.

I don't know why Cover looked at such a bad management structure and decided it's fine, let's sign a contract with them, it won't come back to bite us
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