(L) Seirei Tsukai no Blade Dance [Light Novel]

[novalysis]

Was Est created? After all, Steel has to be forged, it does not occur naturally in nature.

[Ravagerblade]

Originally Posted by novalysis

Was Est created? After all, Steel has to be forged, it does not occur naturally in nature.

Well as far as I know, Est is a spirit. How are spirits created? That's the real question, unless she's an artificial spirit...

[amtro]

Est's power seems to be power over weapons, or anything that might be used as a weapon. If you want to speculate you can say that it's just weapon creation and telekinesis, because aside from moving around metal weapons with her mind and summoning various elemental wafe forms of herself, she doesn't do much.
I dunno, she just seems sort of empty to me. What if she's the discarded shell after the will and power of Ren Ashdoll left the original body, but in return she retains the generic abilities and elemental waffe forms of Ren Ashdoll? We know from the LN that "slaying" a high rank spirit, let alone an elemental lord is extremely hard, why should Ashdoll be any different?

[Apoptosis]

Impressive how a little banter here and there could momentarily resurrect a thread.

[Ophis]

Originally Posted by amtro

Est's power seems to be power over weapons, or anything that might be used as a weapon.

Power over weapons made of Steel. What kind of Spirit would not be able to control or bend anything made from their own attribute?

Originally Posted by amtro

If you want to speculate you can say that it's just weapon creation and telekinesis, because aside from moving around metal weapons with her mind and summoning various elemental wafe forms of herself, she doesn't do much.

Wait, what!? Weapon creation and telekinesis? When did you ever saw any of those? I really don't remember Est ever creating a weapon, and the closest thing she ever did similar to telekinesis was bending Ellis's sword, which, by the way, was made of Steel, Est's attribute.

Summoning various Elemental Waffe forms of herself? The times Est changed her form were to that short sword form, which did not deviate from her nature as a sword spirit. Even Restia could do the same, so that's nothing special.

Est can dispel/negate/destroy all kinds of magic and curses; is almost indestructible; can grant the contractor the resilience and toughness of Steel, and you say she can't do much? I'm actually wondering what you're comparing her with....

Originally Posted by amtro

I dunno, she just seems sort of empty to me. What if she's the discarded shell after the will and power of Ren Ashdoll left the original body, but in return she retains the generic abilities and elemental waffe forms of Ren Ashdoll? We know from the LN that "slaying" a high rank spirit, let alone an elemental lord is extremely hard, why should Ashdoll be any different?

This still makes no sense. Why would Ren Ashdoll do that just to get killed? Restia herself said that Est was neutral in that war and all the Elemental Lords feared her, Ren Ashdoll is no exception. Just by this you can judge that Est was around for a long time already, even before the war.

And no, Ren Ashdoll was not affected by that Otherworldly Darkness during the Spirit War. She was only contaminated after she came in contact with it during the time Kamito released Iseria.

[shadow1296]

Originally Posted by Ophis

Power over weapons made of Steel. What kind of Spirit would not be able to control or bend anything made from their own attribute?

lets get this out of the way the only confirmed attributes in the series are darkness, water, earth, fire, wind, and light everything else are just variations of those 6 meaning if you want to keep saying her attribute is steel than ultimately that makes her a servant of the earth elemental lord something that is clearly not the case

Wait, what!? Weapon creation and telekinesis? When did you ever saw any of those? I really don't remember Est ever creating a weapon, and the closest thing she ever did similar to telekinesis was bending Ellis's sword, which, by the way, was made of Steel, Est's attribute.

the first time she shown her true form to Kamito granted that may or may not have been a manga original i haven't read the first volume in a long while.

Est can dispel/negate/destroy all kinds of magic and curses; is almost indestructible; can grant the contractor the resilience and toughness of Steel, and you say she can't do much? I'm actually wondering what you're comparing her with....

est can absorb curses not dispel curses and when did she give kamitio the resilience and toughness of steel because all his resistance to magic comes from the fact he is the soul/power of the darkness elemental lord and his toughness comes from his past

This still makes no sense. Why would Ren Ashdoll do that just to get killed? Restia herself said that Est was neutral in that war and all the Elemental Lords feared her, Ren Ashdoll is no exception. Just by this you can judge that Est was around for a long time already, even before the war.And no, Ren Ashdoll was not affected by that Otherworldly Darkness during the Spirit War. She was only contaminated after she came in contact with it during the time Kamito released Iseria.

she can't beat them all at once which got her killed but a human can get close them an kill them far easier than she could and percaution if she split herself up then the otherworldly darkness can't take complete control of her, if the will/mind is taken over but the power /soul is not then they can't completely control her if shekept fighting the elemental lords who were corrupted in her original form eventually she would get corrupted as well and the otherworldly darkness woud control all elemental lords and no one could stop them and when was it stated est was around during the spirit war because if she was and her attribute was steel as you said she definitely would not be neutral because she would be serving her elemental lord the earth one

[Avrorrange]

I think Est needs to somehow learn releasing the curses she's stored on her enemies.

[OverNOut]

^Didn't she did that already in Volume 12 against the traitor in Numbers(can't remember her name).

[bakato]

Originally Posted by shadow1296

est can absorb curses not dispel curses and when did she give kamitio the resilience and toughness of steel because all his resistance to magic comes from the fact he is the soul/power of the darkness elemental lord and his toughness comes from his past

It because of his spirit contract granting him steel properties.

A contracted spirit's attributes affecting the contractor wasn't anything rare.

For example, Claire's ability to have her hair stand on end was because of this. Because of Est's attribute being metal as a sword spirit, his body may have become robust as a result.

[shadow1296]

Originally Posted by bakato

It because of his spirit contract granting him steel properties.

so what gave him his toughness is the fact est is a sword spirit that is understandable

[Ravagerblade]

Originally Posted by shadow1296

so what gave him his toughness is the fact est is a sword spirit that is understandable

I thought that was just speculation. Rather than being contracted to Est, it's his Demon King/Ren Ashdoll part of him. Also the Holy attribute apparently has little to no effect on him (unless apparently by physicality-ish touching), Darkness aspect of him too.

Also isn't Terminus Est Zwei 50% Darkness or just abilities from Restia.

[shadow1296]

Originally Posted by Ravagerblade

I thought that was just speculation. Rather than being contracted to Est, it's his Demon King/Ren Ashdoll part of him. Also the Holy attribute apparently has little to no effect on him (unless apparently by physicality-ish touching), Darkness aspect of him too.

Also isn't Terminus Est Zwei 50% Darkness or just abilities from Restia.

I think its a little of both i doubt she would have been able to obtain restia's abilities if she didn't have some darkness element in her

[GetInDaZone222]

I seriously think a lot of people need to go re-read this series(I might do the same when we finally get a new release date for the next volume). It was stated in every volume of the blade dance arc at least once that est's attribute of steel strengthens kamito's body making him more robust. It is stated many times that there are attributes besides the main ones of the elemental lords. For a more clear example, dragons. Go back and read about how Leonora is constantly using dragon magic(yes, dragon attribute magic) to enhance her body strength etc. Very clearly there is more out there than 6 elements.

[Ravagerblade]

Originally Posted by GetInDaZone222

I seriously think a lot of people need to go re-read this series(I might do the same when we finally get a new release date for the next volume). It was stated in every volume of the blade dance arc at least once that est's attribute of steel strengthens kamito's body making him more robust. It is stated many times that there are attributes besides the main ones of the elemental lords. For a more clear example, dragons. Go back and read about how Leonora is constantly using dragon magic(yes, dragon attribute magic) to enhance her body strength etc. Very clearly there is more out there than 6 elements.

I did read it, I am re-reading it... but still I think it's only implied.

[GetInDaZone222]

Definitely not. It is stated the contractors recieve stronger magic traits from their spirits if the elements correspond. Claires fireballs are stonger since Scarlet is of the fire attribute. Kamito doesnt recieve earth magic from est, he recieves the ability to create a short sword using the steel attribute. Leonora clearly states she uses dragon attribute magic to enhance her strength. Not sure how theres room to imply there, please explain.

”she was likely using dragon property spirit magic to supplement her muscle strength” v5 p181. Passed a few more examples in just that volume but this one seemed pretty clear with little to imply.

[shadow1296]

Originally Posted by GetInDaZone222

I seriously think a lot of people need to go re-read this series(I might do the same when we finally get a new release date for the next volume). It was stated in every volume of the blade dance arc at least once that est's attribute of steel strengthens kamito's body making him more robust. It is stated many times that there are attributes besides the main ones of the elemental lords. For a more clear example, dragons. Go back and read about how Leonora is constantly using dragon magic(yes, dragon attribute magic) to enhance her body strength etc. Very clearly there is more out there than 6 elements.

Originally Posted by GetInDaZone222

Definitely not. It is stated the contractors recieve stronger magic traits from their spirits if the elements correspond. Claires fireballs are stonger since Scarlet is of the fire attribute. Kamito doesnt recieve earth magic from est, he recieves the ability to create a short sword using the steel attribute. Leonora clearly states she uses dragon attribute magic to enhance her strength. Not sure how theres room to imply there, please explain.

”she was likely using dragon property spirit magic to supplement her muscle strength” v5 p181. Passed a few more examples in just that volume but this one seemed pretty clear with little to imply.

and all the proof i need that there are 6 main elements and the rest are just branches of them is the fact that iseria the water elemental lord is capable of using ice, and fenrir an ice spirit can only use ice it hasn't been shown to use water at all and est can create swords because she is a sword spirit and because most swords are made of metal kamito obtain that toughness and leanora spirit was a dragon of course the magic was going to be dragonic in nature that doesn't mean the dragon property is its elemental attribute

[Ophis]

@shadow1296
Ok, it seems that you either did not read the novel or has completely forgotten the contents of it. So, let me enlighten you a bit.

Originally Posted by shadow1296

lets get this out of the way the only confirmed attributes in the series are darkness, water, earth, fire, wind, and light everything else are just variations of those 6 meaning if you want to keep saying her attribute is steel than ultimately that makes her a servant of the earth elemental lord something that is clearly not the case

I don't understand why you keep pressing this button. If Est was said to be a Spirit of Steel, then she is a Spirit of Steel, not Earth. The novel never mentioned she being related to any of the 6 main elements. Why do you keep stubbornly ignoring what the novel has presented to you so far?

Originally Posted by shadow1296

the first time she shown her true form to Kamito granted that may or may not have been a manga original i haven't read the first volume in a long while.

Please, don't try to use half-assed manga knowledge as an argument.

Originally Posted by shadow1296

est can absorb curses not dispel curses and when did she give kamitio the resilience and toughness of steel because all his resistance to magic comes from the fact he is the soul/power of the darkness elemental lord and his toughness comes from his past

I know that the curses are all absorbed. Still, this does not change the fact that it's an incredible useful ability.

About the granting Kamito the Steel properties, here:

Spoiler for Vol 12 Chapter 10:

Instantly, Kamito felt his body become as sturdy and resilient as steel.
This was the blessing conferred on his physical body once the connection with his contracted spirit was restored.

Spoiler for Vol 12 Chapter 10:

Kamito was unable to use healing spirit magic. Although the sword spirit possessed the blessing of steel, its effects were limited to his body only.

Spoiler for Vol 13 Chapter 2:

"«Steel's Protection» alone is enough for guarding Kamito!"

Spoiler for Vol 13 Chapter 5:

"It'll be a huge problem if scars were left behind on a girl. And look, I still have «Steel's Protection» from Est. This kind of small injury will heal on its own."

And last but no least. Here:

Originally Posted by Vol 13 Chapter 8

Kamito went up decisively. Contracted to Est, Kamito possessed «Steel's Protection» which enhanced the body's durability. This allowed him some leeway to conduct self-sacrificing attacks.

Originally Posted by shadow1296

she can't beat them all at once which got her killed but a human can get close them an kill them far easier than she could and percaution if she split herself up then the otherworldly darkness can't take complete control of her, if the will/mind is taken over but the power /soul is not then they can't completely control her if shekept fighting the elemental lords who were corrupted in her original form eventually she would get corrupted as well and the otherworldly darkness woud control all elemental lords and no one could stop them and when was it stated est was around during the spirit war because if she was and her attribute was steel as you said she definitely would not be neutral because she would be serving her elemental lord the earth one

A human can get close and kill the Elemental Lords easier? The only stance where a human can stand before an Elemental Lord is when they achieve victory in the Blade Dance. The Spirit War was thousands of years ago, when humans had yet to be able to wield spirits. There was no Blade Dance in that time. If I'm not mistaken, the Blade Dance is roughly as old as Solomon....

Again, your arguments completely contradict themselves. If Est were to be a part of the Darkness Elemental Lord power, how the hell would she be an Earth Spirit? Besides, an Earth Spirit stronger than the Earth Elemental Lord itself?

Spoiler for Vol 12 Chapter 10:

On a foundation of steel's affinity, inheriting the power of darkness, its name was—
The «Demon King's Sword»—«Terminus Est Zwei».

See? A foundation of Steel. Which means that the original Est is Steel. Get it now?

Originally Posted by Vol 9 Chapter 4

Although Est was crowned with the title of the «Demon Slayer» for vanquishing the Demon King, in actual fact, she was not a spirit possessing the holy attribute but a sword spirit with the attribute of «Steel».

See? S.T.E.E.L attribute.

Phew. End of my huge wall of text. Here's my advise for you: Go back and read the entire novel again, and properly this time.

[GetInDaZone222]

Well at least you are admitting your errors a little now. First you were sure there were only 6 elements now youre saying there are branches, but ill have to agree with Ophis and say you need to re-read the series. Youre aware that your example is comparing what could be called.the ruler of all water to a regular(although not especially weak) spirit. In fact, id be more surprised if Iseria couldnt do something as simple as control ice seeing as shes the lord of water...As for the rest of your statement, please re-read the quote I just posted, dragon-property-spirit-magic in case you missed it again. It is called as such everytime he deals with Leonora and the same could be said for the spirits of her country. Nidhogg is the strongest dragon spirit...not flame spirit in the form of a dragon or something, dragon-spirit that gives its contracter dragon attribute magic. Sorry for the wall that is just a copy of what I already stated

[shadow1296]

Originally Posted by Ophis

@shadow1296
Ok, it seems that you either did not read the novel or has completely forgotten the contents of it. So, let me enlighten you a bit.



I don't understand why you keep pressing this button. If Est was said to be a Spirit of Steel, then she is a Spirit of Steel, not Earth. The novel never mentioned she being related to any of the 6 main elements. Why do you keep stubbornly ignoring what the novel has presented to you so far?

because its information that the novel itself with the elemental lords, there are only 6 and the lord of all water can control every element that has a base in water , proof her ability to wield ice its only logical to assume that the others can do the same, that means all the other elements are ultimatey based in those 6

I know that the curses are all absorbed. Still, this does not change the fact that it's an incredible useful ability.

About the granting Kamito the Steel properties, here:

Spoiler for Vol 12 Chapter 10:

Instantly, Kamito felt his body become as sturdy and resilient as steel.
This was the blessing conferred on his physical body once the connection with his contracted spirit was restored.

Spoiler for Vol 12 Chapter 10:

Kamito was unable to use healing spirit magic. Although the sword spirit possessed the blessing of steel, its effects were limited to his body only.

Spoiler for Vol 13 Chapter 2:

"«Steel's Protection» alone is enough for guarding Kamito!"

Spoiler for Vol 13 Chapter 5:

"It'll be a huge problem if scars were left behind on a girl. And look, I still have «Steel's Protection» from Est. This kind of small injury will heal on its own."

okay yeah i need to read those volumes again must missed those on my first read through

A human can get close and kill the Elemental Lords easier? The only stance where a human can stand before an Elemental Lord is when they achieve victory in the Blade Dance. The Spirit War was thousands of years ago, when humans had yet to be able to wield spirits. There was no Blade Dance in that time. If I'm not mistaken, the Blade Dance is roughly as old as Solomon....

humans still served them meaning that there must of been another way for humans to meet the eleental lords before the blade dance was established if no then why were there statues depicting all 6 lords in that temple they would not have created one for ren ashdoll if there weren't people who served her before her rebellion

Originally Posted by GetInDaZone222

Well at least you are admitting your errors a little now. First you were sure there were only 6 elements now youre saying there are branches, but ill have to agree with Ophis and say you need to re-read the series. Youre aware that your example is comparing what could be called.the ruler of all water to a regular(although not especially weak) spirit. In fact, id be more surprised if Iseria couldnt do something as simple as control ice seeing as shes the lord of water...As for the rest of your statement, please re-read the quote I just posted, dragon-property-spirit-magic in case you missed it again. It is called as such everytime he deals with Leonora and the same could be said for the spirits of her country. Nidhogg is the strongest dragon spirit...not flame spirit in the form of a dragon or something, dragon-spirit that gives its contracter dragon attribute magic. Sorry for the wall that is just a copy of what I already stated

just like fenrir is a wolf spirit, scarlets a cat/valkyrie spirit, and simorgh is a bird spirit just because its element wasn't specifically stated doesn't mean it doesn't have one dragon is just its most prominent attribute

[Ophis]

Originally Posted by shadow1296

because its information that the novel itself with the elemental lords, there are only 6 and the lord of all water can control every element that has a base in water , proof her ability to wield ice its only logical to assume that the others can do the same, that means all the other elements are ultimatey based in those 6

I still disagree. It's clearly expressed in the novel that Est unique and is an existence above the Elemental Lords. She being ruled by one of them makes no sense and contradicts what the novel has been showing us throughout 13 volumes.

Originally Posted by shadow1296

humans still served them meaning that there must of been another way for humans to meet the eleental lords before the blade dance was established if no then why were there statues depicting all 6 lords in that temple they would not have created one for ren ashdoll if there weren't people who served her before her rebellion

No body has ever seen the Elemental Lords true appearances, they only know and revere them. Proof of this is the utter astonishment of everyone at seeing Iseria's true form.

Remember, even the winner of Blade Dance has to be at a fair distance from the Elemental Lords when in the audience hall. The only reason Kamito succeeded in freeing Iseria and Volcanicus is because the wish froze their movements.