(L) A.I.C.O. Incarnation

[zztop]

Originally Posted by wuhugm

^13's detective plot is quite Hollywood to me though?

13 promises a sequel, while AICO is dead permanently
Malignant Matter is gone, after story is scrapped, sequel is impossible
What will all divers do now? Will Aico and Yura live normally? What about Yuzuha? Will Kazuki give up on Aico?
Important questions that will never get answered
Great anime but sadly ultimately forgottable

I agree 13's detective plot is Hollywood. The part with Koku and Market Maker is more anime, especially Market Maker's clown costumes.

AICO likely designed as standalone story from the start. Not that it stops people from trying to make sequels (ex Gargantia was supposed to have S2, but that got cancelled afterwards. Planned S2 story got novelized instead.)

[wuhugm]

^Gargantia can be expanded easily coz the scale is literally universe
AICO's entire plot is about Matter and that's solved already

Wished Yura romance coz he's adult in kid's body and that would be kinky

Originally Posted by orion

Yura x AICO. He's talking to her in the ending and someone is helping her with expenses. Yuzuha is a part of his experiments just like AICO was.

You don't know that

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by wuhugm

Wished Yura romance coz he's adult in kid's body and that would be kinky

He wanted to kill the girl for the most part. Doesn't make a good basis for romance.

He got lucky she forgave him, but I don't think there's any romantic future waiting for them.

[wuhugm]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

He wanted to kill the girl for the most part. Doesn't make a good basis for romance.

He got lucky she forgave him, but I don't think there's any romantic future waiting for them.

I want Yura X Yuzuha yo

[orion]

Originally Posted by wuhugm

You don't know that

That helmet is similar to the one that was used to monitor AICO. She's the new guinea pig getting her backup bodies tuned.

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

He wanted to kill the girl for the most part. Doesn't make a good basis for romance.

He got lucky she forgave him, but I don't think there's any romantic future waiting for them.

The guy was crying and almost hysterical when he thought she died. And nothing says possible romance like 2 people touching hands together as one of them is about to be put under anesthesia. He's also saying that he's going to make a world for her to fit in and taking responsibility for her. This is screaming "couple status" for those 2.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by orion

The guy was crying and almost hysterical when he thought she died.

Which comes as hypocritical considering he was just fine about killing her 10 minutes early. Heck, he didn't even see her as human. And at the end of the day, he didn't even manage to save her. Gummi did. Again, he was lucky she forgave him, but that's all there is to it.

And nothing says possible romance like 2 people touching hands together as one of them is about to be put under anesthesia. He's also saying that he's going to make a world for her to fit in and taking responsibility for her. This is screaming "couple status" for those 2.

That's wishful thinking. This just means the guy isn't rotten enough not to see he was an asshole and has to make amends. But to each their own I guess.

[Haak]

TL;DR…

previous posts

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I decided to avoid this thread until I finished the series due to seeing a lot of posts here with no spoiler tags.

Spoilers

Spoiler for Episode 8 - 12

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Overall, it was a good series. There were some definite flaws, particular the amount of cramming and the lacklustre world building and how predictable everything was, but it was refreshing to actually have characters act like mature adults and focus on what’s important to them. Could've done with more princess carrying too.

Spoilers

Spoiler for @ Kazu-kun

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[Magewolf]

Originally Posted by Haak

TL;DR…

previous posts

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

I decided to avoid this thread until I finished the series due to seeing a lot of posts here with no spoiler tags.

Spoilers

Spoiler for Episode 8 - 12

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Overall, it was a good series. There were some definite flaws, particular the amount of cramming and the lacklustre world building and how predictable everything was, but it was refreshing to actually have characters act like mature adults and focus on what’s important to them. Could've done with more princess carrying too.

Spoilers

Spoiler for @ Kazu-kun

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Yes, the political side of things make no sense at all. The potential destruction of the human race vs destroying samples of the stuff that lead to the potential destruction of the human race. And wouldn't all the data be backed up offsite anyway? Really this story should have never been possible because the whole burn it with fire plan would have almost certainly been done two years earlier.

Actually that brings to mind something else I noticed. The government does not seem to really know anything about what is going on or why. They seem to have left the cell things as trade secrets of the companies involved and not even made any real attempt to figure out how to stop it. It's like they had just been siting around on their thumbs for two years waiting to do the first week stuff so it would not interfere with the plot of the show.

As for Nanbara she was always on the make Japan wealthy(powerful) no matter the cost side. She just decided our plucky team of heroes was her best bet after the hospital leadership abandoned her protect the data regardless of the cost in human lives plan.

[wuhugm]

Also there's that plot hole

The anime keeps doubling down on stating that Matter needs water to propagate
That's why it grows tracing the river
And when it reaches the ocean, the world will basically end
But ocean is freaking salt water
Wouldn't it die instead?

[Reis]

if they want to have a second season my guess is somebody try the create the artificial organism from the leaked data but mess up. doubt it though, but you never know netflix got very deep pocket.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Magewolf

Yes, the political side of things make no sense at all. The potential destruction of the human race vs destroying samples of the stuff that lead to the potential destruction of the human race. And wouldn't all the data be backed up offsite anyway? Really this story should have never been possible because the whole burn it with fire plan would have almost certainly been done two years earlier.

Actually that brings to mind something else I noticed. The government does not seem to really know anything about what is going on or why. They seem to have left the cell things as trade secrets of the companies involved and not even made any real attempt to figure out how to stop it. It's like they had just been siting around on their thumbs for two years waiting to do the first week stuff so it would not interfere with the plot of the show.

As for Nanbara she was always on the make Japan wealthy(powerful) no matter the cost side. She just decided our plucky team of heroes was her best bet after the hospital leadership abandoned her protect the data regardless of the cost in human lives plan.

But there are spinal cord samples (remember that prologue room) and spare bodies that would have been lost. That may be why they didn't want to burn that area 2 years ago.

Yura's solution basically saved all the samples that can be used again without much time delay and loss of money to Japan.

Originally Posted by Reis

if they want to have a second season my guess is somebody try the create the artificial organism from the leaked data but mess up. doubt it though, but you never know netflix got very deep pocket.

Not even leaked data. There was another private company involved who threatened to pull out of Japan if they torched the Matter. That company could restart the program and make a mistake. Or....military application of Matter could run amok. Then our plucky diver team plus AICO, Dr. Yura and the other scientist would be called in/forced to do the cleanup.

[wuhugm]

I don't see why the must restrict the sequel to still be about "matter"
Why not about super soldiers with composite body?
Even Aico became nearly indestructible

[Hypernova]

A big plot hole: Why bother traveling through the river valley? Their gear looks plenty capable to go up the mountain from the other side. They tried to hand wave it by saying the left and right underground pipes are blocked by Matter but that excuse doesn't really work for the back of the mountain range. Every time they show the map it bugs me.

[wuhugm]

^Aico was not using the gear
Also avoiding the government

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Haak

From what I understood, Yuya actually decided not to go ahead with the plan

Yeah, he changed his mind in the last moment. That's what I meant with "he was just fine about killing her 10 minutes early."

But it's too little to late, considering who much an asshole he was before he had his "change of heart." Anyway, my point stands. He was lucky she forgave him, but expecting more than that is delusional.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Spoilers

Spoiler for ending

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Spoilers

Spoiler for ending

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[Kazu-kun]

Why the spoiler tags? The whole show is out already.

Originally Posted by Haak

I don't entirely disagree with you. After all he did start off as a character who unequivocally believed that clones did not have the same rights as the originals (which is pretty arseholery) but the story goes through lengths to show how his perspective gradually changes. It's not the sudden last minute change of heart that you're making it out to be.

He was still saying she wasn't human even in the last episode. If the writers wanted me to think his change of heart wasn't sudden, they failed to portray that properly.

And it's not like he's killing FakeAiko for shits and giggles.

That's irrelevant. It wasn't his life to decide what to do with it. The reason he believed he could take that decision for her is because he didn't see her as human to begin with.

The fact that he decided against going through his plan basically meant putting the entire operation at a much greater risk of failure.

It doesn't matter. A plan based on a forced sacrifice was nonsense to begin with.

Besides, even FakeAiko was fine with going along with the plan in killing the other Aiko, until she found out she was the actual fake.

At the very least she did express that she wasn't okay with that when she found out what would happen to the "fake" one. Unlike Kanzaki, she believed the "fake" one was as alive as herself and didn't deserve to die.

[Haak]

Spoilers

Spoiler for @ Kazu-kun

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[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Haak

Do you mind elaborating on that one? From what I can see, the last episode begins with Yuya saying the exact opposite. Did you also miss the scene in Episode 11 where he's actually trying to convince FakeAiko that she's human too?

Okay, last episode is an exaggeration, but the point stands. For about 90% of the show he doesn't consider her human.

You're not wrong but again, I think you're also ignoring the fact that his feelings were a lot more conflicted and complicated for him. I think you probably missed my belated edit so I'll just repeat it here:
I think the story also makes a point that Yuya doesn't truly believe half the arseholery shit he says. The guy is a serial liar, not just to others but to himself. When Sagami gave him a taste of his own medicine in Episode 10, he rose to the bait and proved how much he wasn't being honest with himself. I highly doubt he was ever going to have the cojones to go through with it.

More than lying to himself, he just seemed detached. Not just how he views Aiko, but his personality in general. Even in the flashbacks he seemed like this somehow. Sure, he gets somewhat conflicted in the second half of the show, but it's too little too late.

Kinda silly saying that when that "nonsense plan" actually worked

Only because Aiko decided to go through with it on her own. Had Aiko not take the decision on her own, it would have been a forced sacrifice, meaning murder. If that's the case, the show would have to deal with the moral dilemma of whether a world that is saved by murdering a child is worth being saved in the first place. The show doesn't want to deal with that. It isn't about that to begin with. Aiko decides what to do on her own putting the attention on the characters themselves. The show therefore is not about the moral dilemma (because everyone and their mother knows it's not okay to sacrifice little girls to save your skin so the point is moot) but about Aiko's noble sacrifice and how that sacrifice makes Kanzaki realize only a true human being could do something like that. For the story to work, Aiko had to take matters into her own hands, which most definitely wasn't part of Kanzaki's plan. His plan was simply to deceive Aiko and kill her off to save the world, and it was nonsense.

For reference it was in the first half of Episode 9 and you could argue that she was basically giving Yuyu's plan the thumbs up (again, if you want to interpret everything negatively)

Only if you brushes off 9 episodes worth of characterization. Unlike Kanzaki, who gets characterized as a detached asshole who is willing to deceive and put others in danger to achieve his goals, Aiko is build up as a deeply empathetic person who doesn't want to put others in danger if she can help it. In fact, they're clearly build up as foils. Aiko will follow Kanzaki because she doesn't have a choice at that point, but that doesn't mean she's okay with using others, be it the rest of her team or the other, supposedly fake Aiko. In fact, if the other Aiko was actually fake, I'm sure Aiko wouldn't have gone through with it either. It's just not in her character to do so. She's a natural softy who cares about others. Why do you think she doesn't whole a grudge to those who wanted to kill her at the end?

[orion]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Why do you think she doesn't whole a grudge to those who wanted to kill her at the end?

If she wants to live a normal life, she has to be grudge-free. Yuya is her benefactor.

If she starts to attract attention, she's going to be dissected.