Would you sacrifice HD for better animation?

[lubczyk]

So anime has moved into the HD era. Anime cells are drawn on a larger canvas so that they appear sharper when broadcast in HD. Most shows broadcast in 16:9 and a lot of audio is in 5.1 as well. What's the problem with that you may ask? Well, everything.

Anime is still as cheaply produced as it has been in decades. There's still very in-between frames except for money-shots like high-impact action scenes. A lot of cheap tricks like showing legs, knees or still scenery during speeches to avoid animating high movement. There are still tons of reused frames used in anime shows and animation-saving procedures. Anime is still by-and-large a motion-comic instead of animation like Disney and the exception of Studio Ghibi.

Its the same with the audio. A lot of anime productions boast 5.1 or 6 distinct channels, but they're actually mostly center channel expanded to fit 6 channels. These surround tracks are true surround tracks like Hollywood productions. I mostly keep my home theater in stereo or Dolby ProLogic mode since a lot of "5.1" anime mixes sound terrible on my setup and are really a waste.

I personally, would accept anime being animated on a smaller canvas in exchange for better quality animation. Less still, more in-between frames and smoother transitions.

A lot of HD assets in anime are just upscaled SD assets (ie. Evangelion 1.11 You are (Not) Alone.)

[Kudryavka]

This is what Blu-ray has led us to. Blu-ray did this to us. Blu-ray is pure evil.

[Saber Cherry]

Having everything in 120 fps HD would be wonderful, but is not going to happen. So, I wouldn't mind high-def still scenes and lower-def action scenes. Anime really looks and feels much better at high frame rates. I couldn't care less about 5.1 sound, though. It is useful less than 1% of the time. In fact, I prefer stereo, since I often use headphones and downmixing the 5.1 stream can give terrible output.

Blue-Ray anime re-releases are certainly unimpressive, from what I've seen... It seems to generally be upsampled DVD stuff, and sometimes looks worse than the original.

[Js2756]

Both are overrated, but HD moreso. Would prefer greater animation frames.

On a related note, I prefer Third Strike over Guilty Gear.

[Theowne]

In a second. This is one of the reasons why the old Ghibli films are so much more visually compelling and organic.

[RadiantBeam]

Without a thought. Especially since if your computer can't handle downloading the HD versions.

[chikorita157]

Ghibli films were pretty good for their animation at the time, but You have to admit that Kyoto Animation made beautifully animated shows (with the exception of K-ON!, Lucky Star and Munto.)

Blu-Ray is pretty much unncessary unless you have a 1080p TV and a screen bigger than 40 inches. My Anime DVDs that upscale on my PS3 still provides good picture quality on a 32 inch LCD HDTV.

Also Blu-Ray have too much draconian DRM, alot worse than DVD.

[Theowne]

Ghibli films were pretty good for their animation at the time

I prefer those animations that were "good for their time" over most of visuals in anime today, to be honest.

I haven't watched too many Kyoto Animation productions, I don't like their character designs all that much, but I think I recall that the animation was fairly good.

[qwertyuiopz]

sohulda been a poll
my answer is yes


?ITS A SONY?

[TheFluff]

this thread sure is full of opinions

Originally Posted by lubczyk

I personally, would accept anime being animated on a smaller canvas in exchange for better quality animation. Less still, more in-between frames and smoother transitions.

you cannot have this; hd is essentially free since the new equipment just works in higher resolutions and you can export at whatever resolution you want, but animator man hours are obviously not free

Originally Posted by lubczyk

A lot of HD assets in anime are just upscaled SD assets (ie. Evangelion 1.11 You are (Not) Alone.)

uh huh yes a cinematic movie is upscaled from sd, of course, obviously you are correct good sir

Originally Posted by Theowne

In a second. This is one of the reasons why the old Ghibli films are so much more visually compelling and organic.

hm yes let's compare extremely high-budget cinematic movies that are among the extremely few anime that actually has mainstream appeal both in japan and abroad to low-budget niche tv anime, this is surely a meaningful comparison

Originally Posted by chikorita157

Ghibli films were pretty good for their animation at the time, but You have to admit that Kyoto Animation made beautifully animated shows (with the exception of K-ON!, Lucky Star and Munto.)

I really hope you are trolling

Originally Posted by chikorita157

Blu-Ray is pretty much unncessary unless you have a 1080p TV and a screen bigger than 40 inches. My Anime DVDs that upscale on my PS3 still provides good picture quality on a 32 inch LCD HDTV.

ok now I know you're trolling, you almost had me there for a second though with the kyoani comment

Originally Posted by Saber Cherry

Having everything in 120 fps

anime: now with 116 duplicated still frames per second instead of 20

[0utf0xZer0]

Does HD even have much of an impact on anime production? Mastering, sure, but production? Most companies are working in digital now anyway - who cares how big the canvas is when you can resize it on the fly? You even point that out yourself, with the whole upscale thing.

I'm all for better animation, but I see no reason why scrapping HD will get us there.

(And the one recent innovation in mastering I don't want to give up? Widescreen. It's the one thing that I think does make a very large difference.)

As for the more frames vs. better frames debate that seems to be cropping up the last couple posts... I think the correct response varies by production. EF doesn't need high frame rates, Gurren Lagann does. I'm not going to take a one size fits all approach.

Edit:

Originally Posted by Theowne

I haven't watched too many Kyoto Animation productions, I don't like their character designs all that much, but I think I recall that the animation was fairly good.

Many KyoAni productions use character designs very close to the source material on which they are based... Air in particular comes to mind here.

[KholdStare]

I'd like to mention that animation isn't everything. Sure, some anime wowed me because of their animation, but there are much more anime that I like because of story than animation. I have more of an issue with fansub groups pulling out 350-400 MB files because they are "forced" to release in upscaled 720p, but that's another story.

[CeDeR]

No! I want it all!!!

[chikorita157]

ok now I know you're trolling, you almost had me there for a second though with the kyoani comment

you might be thinking about Enless Eight... I have to agree that Kyoani didn't do a very good job with animating and handling of that arc.

Someone did mention that the Air bluray picture quality was worse than the DVD version since it was upscaled.

[lubczyk]

Originally Posted by KholdStare

I'd like to mention that animation isn't everything. Sure, some anime wowed me because of their animation, but there are much more anime that I like because of story than animation. I have more of an issue with fansub groups pulling out 350-400 MB files because they are "forced" to release in upscaled 720p, but that's another story.

It's supposed to animation not a book. You can have good animation and a good story. When I'm watching animation, I expect it to be good. If you're only riding on a story, publish a book or an audio drama.

It still bugs me that even big anime productions like Garden of Sinners use so many stills. Much of the latest film was lifeless.

Stills in animation suck, even in anime with "good stories." The writing quality in anime needs to go up as well.

[KholdStare]

Stills = nitpicking

The only noticeable "stills" are the ones in hentai.

Kara no Kyoukai has excellent animation. It can fool me all it wants with stills, but I don't care, because I don't watch anime to nitpick. If animation is not obviously bad, then it's not bad. The majority of the anime watching community will praise the animation in Kara no Kyoukai. Therefore, it is unreasonable to up the "animation" just to please people like...you.

PS: I did not appreciate the neg rep because I was voicing my opinion/tastes in anime.

[TheFluff]

Originally Posted by chikorita157

you might be thinking about Enless Eight... I have to agree that Kyoani didn't do a very good job with animating and handling of that arc.

I might be thinking of pretty much everything kyoani has ever done, with like two exceptions

Originally Posted by lubczyk

It still bugs me that even big anime productions like Garden of Sinners use so many stills. Much of the latest film was lifeless.

yeah ok so not only is evangelion an upscale, knk is full of stills and "lifeless"? pro troll there, bro

[lubczyk]

Originally Posted by TheFluff

I might be thinking of pretty much everything kyoani has ever done, with like two exceptions


yeah ok so not only is evangelion an upscale, knk is full of stills and "lifeless"? pro troll there, bro

Not the whole thing. You can tell that some CG assets and 2D assets are drawn at a lower resolution than others. There's quite a contrast.

The whole thing wasn't drawn on the same size canvas.

[Theowne]

Originally Posted by TheFluff

hm yes let's compare extremely high-budget cinematic movies that are among the extremely few anime that actually has mainstream appeal both in japan and abroad to low-budget niche tv anime, this is surely a meaningful comparison

This thread is called "would you sacrifice HD for better animation". I said yes, using Ghibli films as an example of great animation. I would surely give it up for regular anime to look more like them. Can you tell me where the problem lies here?

[TheFluff]

Originally Posted by Theowne

This thread is called "would you sacrifice HD for better animation". Using Ghibli films as an example of great animation, yes, I would sacrifice HD for anime to look more like Ghibli films. Can you tell me where the problem lies here?

the problem is that the question is completely meaningless to begin with