Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans Episode 50 [END] Discussion / Poll

[TheForsaken]

Originally Posted by n0m@n

Who gives a shit. Tekkadan was fueled in rage and the story made sure that the viewers also wanted Jesley dead with his lackeys who were also involved in his dirty work. Don't see the point of trying to bring it up to prove something.

Originally Posted by dragon1412

and are they really free of all guilt ??? fact is, most of them, if not all, are aware of what Jasley are doing and actively following his order. They should be more than aware of eventual war with Tekkadan and they are prepared to slaughter Tekkdan should they win

SonicSP said that Tekkadan always respects the surrender signs, and I provided an example where they didn't.

It's easy to paint people who fights for the other side is evil, but no, most of them are just doing their jobs. There are non combatants in that ship as well, people no different from old man, Merribit or Atra. Sure, they knew the risk when they boarded a battleship, but being shot during battle and being executed in cold blood after you surrendered are two totally different things. There are Human Debris kids there as well. Tekkadan justified killing them during battle because "it's you or me", but what justified killing them now?

By the way, if killing everyone under Jasley is justified then killing everyone under Orga is justified as well.

[Muu094]

Originally Posted by TheForsaken

SonicSP said that Tekkadan always respects the surrender signs, and I provided an example where they didn't.

It's easy to paint people who fights for the other side is evil, but no, most of them are just doing their jobs. There are non combatants in that ship as well, people no different from old man, Merribit or Atra. Sure, they knew the risk when they boarded a battleship, but being shot during battle and being executed in cold blood after you surrendered are two totally different things. There are Human Debris kids there as well. Tekkadan justified killing them during battle because "it's you or me", but what justified killing them now?

By the way, if killing everyone under Jasley is justified then killing everyone under Orga is justified as well.

Í think the case with Jasley isn't really a fair comparrison as unlike Orga, Jasley actively walked into that fight under the assumption that he would have Iok's support. Tekkadan on the other hand, despite being labelled as aids in McGillis's revolt, were still a legitimate organization. Orga also never prevented Jalsey from surrendering and even held Tekkadan back until Lafter was killed. Everyone in Tekkadan is there of their own will and while its tragic that they treated the Human Debris like any other enemy, their hand were forced. Getting rid of Jasley wasn't just revenge but clearing an active impediment as he was targeting people outside of combat.

Nothing is really justified though Orga kill everyone associated with Jasley was mode of a necesity since the latter made it clear that it was either "us or them". Rustal on the other hand had already won and was actively preventing Tekkadan from surrendering in order to prove a point.

[Rising Dragon]

So, uh, why was I quoted in that response?

[ReddyRedWolf]

I can actually see the Power Blocs go after Rustal over war crimes after a decade. Note Gjallarhorn aren't the Power Blocs and Gjarllarhorn's military forces would be reduced.

Jullieta isn't exactly smart I'm sure she can be put on a political bind not being to help Rustal. Or not elected.

Now Rustal had Mars Union created to offset the Power Blocs from coming after him. As well as contracts with Teiwaz. Just one one problem he crossed both those in power in those entities. Rustal's actions and inactions led to the death of their love ones.

[Magewolf]

Originally Posted by SonicSP

I would even go as far as saying that the plot armor went the other way since Mika and Akihiro were unlikely to survive that Deinsleif bombardment but the writers gave it to them to make sure they have a cool badass last moment.

Actually the Deinsleif attack was one of the least plausible things that happened in the show. The chances of them hitting suits from orbit even if they were standing still would be less then both pilots dropping dead from strokes at the same time. Also they vastly over estimated the kinetic energy of the impacts. We know the size of the rods and that they are not super dense because they are made of mobile suit armor. Even if you say they are tungsten rod just coated with armor,which contradicts how they are described in show, they are too small to do that much damage.

[Muu094]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

So, uh, why was I quoted in that response?

Not intentionally as that post was supposed to be addressed to another.

[Skye629]

Originally Posted by Magewolf

Actually the Deinsleif attack was one of the least plausible things that happened in the show. The chances of them hitting suits from orbit even if they were standing still would be less then both pilots dropping dead from strokes at the same time. Also they vastly over estimated the kinetic energy of the impacts. We know the size of the rods and that they are not super dense because they are made of mobile suit armor. Even if you say they are tungsten rod just coated with armor,which contradicts how they are described in show, they are too small to do that much damage.

The Dainsleif rounds of made of the material that makes up the frame of the Gundams, not whatever material they use with the NL on top. So its quite possible they're fully solid/extremely dense rods/spears

The key part of the equation we're missing is their mass, which we will never get



This being said I would just assume they're extremely dense, and when fired from orbit can cause a ton of damage

My real gripe with the scene is that we only see a small handful being fired. If it was a whole giant firing squad like in the Earth battle I would have completely bought the results, no questions asked

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Magewolf

Actually the Deinsleif attack was one of the least plausible things that happened in the show. The chances of them hitting suits from orbit even if they were standing still would be less then both pilots dropping dead from strokes at the same time. Also they vastly over estimated the kinetic energy of the impacts. We know the size of the rods and that they are not super dense because they are made of mobile suit armor. Even if you say they are tungsten rod just coated with armor,which contradicts how they are described in show, they are too small to do that much damage.

Using very conservative estimates, let's say 3 tons for a single Dainsleif warhead (based on the hypothesis of a Dainsleif warhead being roughly 10% of the Gundam Flauros' weight of 29.9 tons), traveling through 10km of atmosphere, taking 5 seconds to hit works out to a bit less than 4.2 x 10^8 Joules.

That puts it on par with each Dainsleif shot being between Thor's hammer redirecting a lightning bolt and an Iowa-class battleship's 16-inch, 56k shell with high explosive charge. But, given that the rounds and weapons were banned, the math's probably too conservative. Knowing the density of each round would certainly change the math.

And as far as accuracy's concerned... you've never heard of Project Thor, I'm guessing.

[koinzell]

this is the first gundam series iv watched.....seriesly is this what gundam is about?
Cheap forced tragic crap?

also the plot is a 100% copy of a tragic Korean military drama called bitter tommorow where the main leads are a bunch of North Korean survivors thats been used as weapons for war and them surviving and finding there way into the world
the main characters/sami disabled character lead army whom supported the wrong guy got wiped out by the corrupt south Korean governments and the bad guys got a happy ending and was labled heros with 0 panaltys

they just slapped this plot on a gundam series and called it a day ......yah if this is what I'm looking forward to then I don't think it's worth my time.

[Skaddix]

The Danslief damage is fine. The accuracy I am forced to wonder about. Seems they only fired 6 or so with incredible accuracy seeing as to win space battles, Rustal lined them up like British Red Coats, a couple dozen long rows. But whatever I will take if only because its sure as heck better then them Plot Armoring Julietta to a win over Mika. And them rising up was pretty badass looking. McGillis and Orga may have been brutalized by the nerf bat. But at least Mika made it by mostly unscathed.

I don't know why people waste time. You like Rustal and think he was doing the greater good fine but lets not pretend he is the same as Tekkadan.

Tekkadan never false flagged civilians who just wanted a decent wage and slaughtered them in mass. Rustal did.

They never started Proxy Wars just to defame someone.

They never used illegal weapons under false pretenses.

Case Closed.

[Rising Dragon]

Skaddix, in the current day and age, we already have the technology for extremely accurate orbital attacks. The accuracy is well within reason here.

[Skaddix]

If accuracy is so easy then why does it take Shino forever to line up a shot? At much closer range and on target that was in no position to take evasive maneuvers and when atmospheric impact and gravity wouldn't affect his shot at all?

But as I said it works because we got one badass scene and Mika wasn't forced to job to Julietta.

[Rising Dragon]

Because he's on an object moving at high speed while he has a broken arm? Duh?

Never mind the rule of drama...

[Skaddix]

I thought u said we had advance targeting systems.
Do those not suddenly exist because you arm is broken?

[Rising Dragon]

He has a broken arm. He hasn't had medical attention for it, instead he had it tied down to his control yoke. He's in pain. It's going to affect his mental processes. He's on a moving object that's causing movements in his body that'll jolt it and cause more pain. His Gundam is also heavily damaged, which would affect its performance. The fact that it's moving means it has to alter its analysis for locking onto the target. All of these are contributing factors to Shino's situation, and in the end the shot missed because of a last second external factor. Are you done refusing to think?

God, you whine so much about this show, but every time to post something you reveal that you must not have watched it at all for how little you actually gleaned from it.

[Skaddix]

Yes and he has an AV system jacking his Brain Directly into the Gundam.
Unlike the Gjhallahorn Pilots.
Does your pseudo math account for that?

Also personal insult...meh its about what I expect from you since you constantly resort to them.

[Rising Dragon]

Yes, jacking his brain directly into his damaged Gundam. That doesn't change the fact that he's still in a lot of pain and that his machine's computer has to compensate for the rapid speeds the ship he's on is moving towards the target.

Meanwhile the Gjallarhorn pilots were sitting still above the planet, so by your own bitching, they'd have an easier time of targeting the Gundams and the UNMOVING BASE from orbit. Oh, and your earlier bit of bitching about gravity and atmosphere? Mars' atmosphere would be thinner than Earth's, so there's less resistance for the rounds to go through, and gravity would've helped them since they're still headed straight down to the planet.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Skaddix

If accuracy is so easy then why does it take Shino forever to line up a shot? At much closer range and on target that was in no position to take evasive maneuvers and when atmospheric impact and gravity wouldn't affect his shot at all?

Are you seriously using Shino as an argument?
Shino was not on a stable place when he was aiming. The ship (Hotarubi) that he docked with was rocked by violent explosions and constantly moving. Rustal's snipers in this episode have all the time in the world to stabilize their positions, preparing, take aim, and shoot. Compare that to Shino who only had few seconds to do all that. No matter how advance your targeting system is, if your railgun-cannon got compromised during the aiming, you will never get a good result out of it. Shino's aiming and shot got compromised, Rustal's did not. Simple as that.

[Rising Dragon]

On the scale of 1 to Russians Hacked Everything, how much farther are you planning to reach, Skaddix?

[n0m@n]

Originally Posted by TheForsaken

SonicSP said that Tekkadan always respects the surrender signs, and I provided an example where they didn't.

You pretty much revoked your own words and it's totally different from what you initially said. This is the quote SonicSP said and the one you responded to.

Tekkadan only executes people who have specifically stabbed them in the back (1st platoon guy, Earth branch guy, etc) or stabbed their allies to the back in the case of Jasper.

Not even sure why you even responded to this quote with your statement then since he did mention about the time Tekkadan hasn't accepted their surrender call already. And where did he say always? Pretty odd isn't it.

Also weren't you trying to justify the unnecessary death of Jasley's men in your initial post? (Which had been answered in the previous page by few users already)

It's easy to paint people who fights for the other side is evil, but no, most of them are just doing their jobs.

It's war. So being in the ship means they are part of their crew. So you want to debate on every other battleships which has been destroyed in this series but also other Gundam series? Good or evil or not. Being in that ship means they are involved in the war itself and they chose to be in that ship.

There are non combatants in that ship as well, people no different from old man, Merribit or Atra.

Yes, every ship has mechanics and medics and such. So your point is?

Sure, they knew the risk when they boarded a battleship, but being shot during battle and being executed in cold blood after you surrendered are two totally different things.

Go and rewatch the 2 episodes before the Jasley thing. Did Iok accept Turbine's surrender call? Who was the one who sold out and lied about Turbine to make sure they are gone for good?

There are Human Debris kids there as well.

Just like every other groups that has appeared so far. And they are forced to battle the enemies till they die. And?

Tekkadan justified killing them during battle because "it's you or me", but what justified killing them now?

Because it's war?

By the way, if killing Naze is justified then killing everyone under Jasley is justified as well.

Fixed. Seems like you keep on forgetting what started this whole thing.

Edit: Fixed typos.