Madoka Magica - Character Discussion - Kaname Madoka

[Hooves]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

I need someone to replace this guy with Madoka, and either use an English voice, or some random Japanese with a subtitle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUxFiNlrDmA

Just imagining it makes me laugh till my lungs hurt

[ThereminVox]

Appropriately, she doesn't become Kyubey's pawn, even through contracting: Just as Homura asks her at the very beginning, she remains herself. Which is... you know... quite a feat when you transcend space and time.

[Hagoshod]

Hey guys, do you think Madoka qualifies as a Knight in Sour Armor?

Spoiler:

Knight In Sour Armor: Madoka and Homura both exemplify this, but ESPECIALLY Madoka. She sacrifices all semblance of her own identity to change the Magical Girl system. She creates a new world where suffering runs just as rampant as ever, acknowledging good cannot exist without evil. And why? Because, by God, Magical Girls deserve to die happily, and she's willing to become the embodiment of hope itself in a despair-filled world.

That's what I think.

[RegalStar]

Originally Posted by Hagoshod

Hey guys, do you think Madoka qualifies as a Knight in Sour Armor?

Spoiler:

Knight In Sour Armor: Madoka and Homura both exemplify this, but ESPECIALLY Madoka. She sacrifices all semblance of her own identity to change the Magical Girl system. She creates a new world where suffering runs just as rampant as ever, acknowledging good cannot exist without evil. And why? Because, by God, Magical Girls deserve to die happily, and she's willing to become the embodiment of hope itself in a despair-filled world.

That's what I think.

A true knight in sour armor hates the fact that they're fighting whatever they're fighting, while Madoka clearly doesn't qualify for that.

[Hagoshod]

You know she hates part of it.

She knows she has to allow war and despair to still exist so humanity can evolve, and that goes against her "puppies and unicorns" mentality. Her entire wish is to prevent suffering when, as God, she has to cause it (or at least intentionally allow it to happen) for the fabric of reality to hold together.

[Akashin]

Originally Posted by Hagoshod

You know she hates part of it.

She knows she has to allow war and despair to still exist so humanity can evolve, and that goes against her "puppies and unicorns" mentality. Her entire wish is to prevent suffering when, as God, she has to cause it (or at least intentionally allow it to happen) for the fabric of reality to hold together.

Except she isn't God, and her wish wasn't to prevent suffering. All her wish did was make it so that, when all the suffering that still occurs reaches its boiling point, she steps in and gives the Puella Magi a natural death free of becoming a Witch. That she became anything more than a regular Puella Magi is simply a consequence of what had to happen to her to fulfill that wish. And if there is anything about that she might hate, it is that she indeed cannot prevent the suffering they still endure as Puella Magi.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Akashin

And if there is anything about that she might hate, it is that she indeed cannot prevent the suffering they still endure as Puella Magi.

She probably can't hate anyway, since once her wish is fulfilled and even her own witch is destroyed, she became a concept an as such she most likely lost what made her human. I doubt she can even feel anything in such ephemeral state. You may note that during Madoka and Homura's farewell Madoka is always composed, almost devoid of concern. That's a pretty big hint about the consequences of her state at that moment.

[Hagoshod]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

She probably can't hate anyway, since once her wish is fulfilled and even her own witch is destroyed, she became a concept an as such she most likely lost what made her human. I doubt she can even feel anything in such ephemeral state. You may note that during Madoka and Homura's farewell Madoka is always composed, almost devoid of concern. That's a pretty big hint about the consequences of her state at that moment.

Except the show outright disproves this idea in the later scene where God Madoka shows regret toward allowing Sayaka to suffer in the new universe, Guy Named After That One My HiME Character I Keep Writing Stories About.

[Akashin]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

She probably can't hate anyway, since once her wish is fulfilled and even her own witch is destroyed, she became a concept an as such she most likely lost what made her human. I doubt she can even feel anything in such ephemeral state. You may note that during Madoka and Homura's farewell Madoka is always composed, almost devoid of concern. That's a pretty big hint about the consequences of her state at that moment.

No arguments here. The 'might' in my statement was more speculative than anything; that if she were to hate anything at all, it would be that. As it is I fully agree with you on the grounds of her not being human anymore.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

She probably can't hate anyway, since once her wish is fulfilled and even her own witch is destroyed, she became a concept an as such she most likely lost what made her human. I doubt she can even feel anything in such ephemeral state. You may note that during Madoka and Homura's farewell Madoka is always composed, almost devoid of concern. That's a pretty big hint about the consequences of her state at that moment.

I strongly disagree with both you and Akashin on this point.

Madoka displayed emotion during that farewell with Homura. Her words to Madoka were clearly tinged with emotion.

Emotion isn't always high-strung. It can come through calmly as well.


I do not believe that Madoka lost all of what made her human. I think that she can still feel emotion, and that her memories of being a human will remain with her always.

Hope itself is an emotional thing, and Madoka is now personified Hope.

[broken270]

Spoiler for I am probably foolish in saying this:

But I cannot help but feel that after seeing episode 11 and 12, there would be a number of people starting up "Madokaism," most prominently in Japan but probably in other places all over the world as well.

[Riga92]

^ It already has

The Church of Madoka

[Scarletknive]

Quote from Ribbons:

Spoiler for I am foolish to say this but here goes:

"omae wa...jinbui no michibi ku shoujo da!

Translations much appreciated...i dunno how Ribbons say to himself for his own gundam ==

Her eyes even changed from pink to yellow...(could she be an innovator?)

[Claes]

Spoiler:

I am the bond of my hope
Despair is my body and Hope is my blood
I have created over a thousand hopes
Unknown to End, nor Known to Beginning
Have withstood despair to create many hopes
Yet those hands will never hold anything
So as I pray, Unlimited Madoka Works

I know I'm using too much "hope"
Feel free to alter it, to make it better

[Liddo-kun]

Originally Posted by Riga92

^ It already has

The Church of Madoka

Joined the blessed church today.

[Crontica]

Originally Posted by Claes

Spoiler:

I am the bond of my hope
Despair is my body and Hope is my blood
I have created over a thousand hopes
Unknown to End, nor Known to Beginning
Have withstood despair to create many hopes
Yet those hands will never hold anything
So as I pray, Unlimited Madoka Works

I know I'm using too much "hope"
Feel free to alter it, to make it better

Spoiler:

I am the bond of my faith
Despair is my body and light is my blood
I have created over a thousand miracles
Unknown to End, nor Known to Beginning
Have withstood despair to create many hopes
Yet those hands will never hold anything
So as I pray, Unlimited God Works.

[Claes]

V2

Spoiler:

I am the bond of my Hope
I hold Despair in my body and spread Expectation within my blood
I have created over a thousand Hopes
Unknown to End, nor Known to Beginning
Have withstood despair to create many Hopes
Yet those hands will never hold anything
So as I pray, Unlimited Madoka Works

[LyricalNanoha]

Originally Posted by sa547

I don't care if she wins or lose in contests such as the ISML (because I'm pretty sure the ballots can get stuffed by the overeager); I care more about her inner personality than just that cute appearance, and yep, as Jules said, personality goes a long way.

agreed, the girl (girls?) personality to us in our own perspective matters so much more than some other commercialised, fantasized voting contest. the results are roughly 70% predictable based off charts and my own calculations on that matter. so it gets very boring for me actually over the long run monitoring the ISML.

on another note, the ISML preliminary voting ended too early before Madoka ended, so she didn't get a chance. Sakura Kyoko also didn't have a chance at the nomination too.

what are your favourite anime series?

PS: anyone can spare some time to help me find where's the original source of the LAST PICTURE in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGlRtgUVyz4 , chan.sankakucomplex 54 pages of madoka archives does not seem to contain it, maybe its in some other channels that i haven't dug out :S

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Hagoshod

Except the show outright disproves this idea in the later scene where God Madoka shows regret toward allowing Sayaka to suffer in the new universe.

I disagree. You think the scene with Madoka and Sayaka comes after her farewell with Homura, but this is not the case. The scene with Homura is stated to take place outside of time, it means there's not chronological correlation between this scene and that one where Madoka and Sayaka are watching Kamijo and Hitomi, or any of the scene that takes place in our universe, where time exists.

So, the Madoka who is with Sayaka is the manifestation of her wish, which is to erase witches of all the times. That Madoka still has feelings because she's still a magical girl. But the Madoka who kills her own witch after her wish has been granted (in the scene outside of time) is prepared to transcend to a higher plane, and become a concept, as QB explained. Probably her last act of emotion is that farewell wish Homura, and then she goes to that other plane, that other state, which is no the same as the one she had when she was taking care of the all the witches of the all the times of the universe, it's a new state, that is totally removed from our plane of existance, as QB explained.

In that state, Madoka doesn't exist anymore, because existence is a property of this plane. She is a concept, an idea, not different than what God is nowadays: she can't interact with this plane, she can't do anything, change anything, just watch.

That's why Madoka says that if Homura remembers her, it would be a true miracle. It's so impossible, that Homura remembering her is the grater miracle, even grater than all Madoka did with her wish.

So did Madoka become a God?

It depends of what you think God is. If you think of God as a concept, then yes, Madoka became a God. If you think of God as an actual existence of this universe that actually has power over the universe, then no, Madoka didn't become God.

The only power Madoka has over the universe is the power of granting her wish, which is erasing witches. And from her point of view, this is something she already did, since she is outside of time, and now she's beyond that, now she's resting in another plane of existence, unconnected to this one except as an idea in Homura's head. It's an eternal rest after fulfilling her wish.

I think people get confused because they think there's chronological correlation between the scene outside of time and the subsequent scene in the "new world". There's none. What happened outside of time is, well, outside of time. That's why from Madoka's point of view, her wish has been fully granted already, and so she bid farewell to Homura and went to her eternal rest. From the point of view of the people in the new world, where time exists, Madoka is still acting over the world, her wish is still erasing witches, and will be till the end of the magical girls in the universe.

It's an illogical duality, since the idea of being "outside of time" is illogical in and of itself. There's no way to explain this logically. If Madoka is still erasing witches, then her wish still is not fully granted, and she still didn't became a witch, and her existence still didn't change to that other state of "non-existence". And yet, she already did it all, because she was "outside of time" when she did it. Tricky!!

[kaigan]

Originally Posted by LyricalNanoha

PS: anyone can spare some time to help me find where's the original source of the LAST PICTURE in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGlRtgUVyz4 , chan.sankakucomplex 54 pages of madoka archives does not seem to contain it, maybe its in some other channels that i haven't dug out :S

try this my friend from the image thread ^_^

Originally Posted by mikoo

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Spoiler for ◕‿‿◕ :