2014-04-02, 19:00 | Link #1 |
AnimeSuki's Mascot
Join Date: Apr 2006
|
Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei LN - Q&A/Discussion about Magic & Technology
The purpose of this thread is for questions and discussion for Mahouka related to Magic & Technology.
Given that this is a source material thread, you are expected to have some familiarity with the source material before participating, and therefore some spoilers are to be expected. However, if you will be discussing major plot points that could spoil plot events that people may not have read yet, please be considerate and use properly-labelled spoiler tags. Properly-labelled means that the label identifies what the reader should already know before opening the tag. There are two ways to create properly-labelled spoiler tags, as shown below: The easy way: By simply clicking on this icon which can be found in the Quick Reply or Reply to Thread template. orThe macho way: By using those uber vB codes as shown in the following... Spoiler Tag Example [spoiler=title, i.e. your reason for the spoiler tag]Don't forget to use a title for the spoiler![/spoiler]...becomes... |
2014-04-04, 07:45 | Link #3 |
Shipper
Join Date: Mar 2013
|
I'm not really clear about Absorb and Release System magics.
Anyone has an idea about how they work? from manga example Spoiler for Modern magics:
I think Absorb selectively gather something to mix with something, is that right? what are your guys opinions? btw, what are the difference between Convergence/Dispersion and Absorb/Release? I feel they are almost identical. p.s. I know it's painful but there's no use crying over spilled thread, guys. Let's make this our new start and one day we shippers will rise!!!
__________________
|
2014-04-04, 17:00 | Link #4 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: UK
|
Quote:
Absorb - to take in something in a natural or gradual way Emission/Release - the act of producing or sending out something (such as energy or gas) from a source. My opinion then is: Energy or molecules are taken within an target; Energy or molecules are released from inside the target Convergence - the act of coming together and meeting Diffusion/Dissipate - to separate into parts and disappear My opinion then is: Separated targets gather together or Gathered targets separate. Last edited by Guest2; 2014-04-06 at 02:21. |
|
2014-04-05, 18:01 | Link #5 |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
Looks like in absorption, you take two things and make them one thing. (Iron + oxygen = rust.) In convergence, you just gather stuff in one place.
The one I don't get is the difference between movement and acceleration. Really, the differences between acceleration, aggravation, movement and oscillation seem rather arbitrary and vague. |
2014-04-06, 02:20 | Link #6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: UK
|
I felt those are the easiest to understand. Its also important to note that magic can increase or decease any of these actions.
Movement - relocation of an object from 1 point to another Oscillation/Vibration - a periodic motion about an equilibrium position My opinion then is: The re-positioning of a target from a starting area to a separate area via maximum force of direct movement; The frequency of a stationary Target's vibrations are manipulated, and depending on the level, a target's molecular energy can be modulated. Speed/Acceleration - Rapidity in moving Weight - The force that gravitation exerts upon a body My opinion then is: The naturally occurring forces explained by physics that occur between molecules are targeted, i.e. acceleration, deceleration, resistances, coulomb/electrostatic force, gravity, etc. |
2014-04-06, 02:58 | Link #8 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
|
Quote:
The difference between Movement Magic and Speed Magic is that Movement Magic does not affect the inertia of an object. If an egg were subjected to only Movement magic, it would break itself apart. Oscillation Magic involves the vibration of targets. Waves can be produced, controlled and dampened with this magic. |
|
2014-04-06, 03:13 | Link #10 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
|
Well inertia is the tendency for an object to stay in the form that it is in(an object at rest wants to be at rest, an object in motion wants to stay in motion). If you suddenly make the molecules in the egg move a lot faster than it normally does through an unnatural mean, then it will override inertia and thus the form of the egg would break. That's how i kind of interpreted it.
|
2014-04-06, 03:19 | Link #11 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: UK
|
Quote:
Any magic used to create a specific unnatural action does not prevent other reactions from still occurring naturally. You have to keep in mind that magic sequences do not directly affect molecules and forces. It affects an alternate dimension and the magician's orders are accommodated by reality however necessary. But unless the magician also use extra magics to adjust the other relevant forces, they may get an unwanted result because of reality's simple and forceful interpretation of their wish. Tatsuya gave a good example of this in v2 about an egg. If unnatural movement is requested - acceleration and etc. happens naturally. If separation magic is used - movement and acceleration etc. happens naturally. Last edited by Guest2; 2014-04-06 at 03:29. |
|
2014-04-06, 04:23 | Link #12 | ||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
Quote:
Quote:
- it's accelerated, and following Newton's 2nd Law, it's exactly as if a force is applied to the object. - it isn't accelerated, because magic. It just gains speed, which means, in the referential of the object, nothing actually happens. (Until a wall jumps at it or something.) So, which is which magic, and why should it break an egg? |
||
2014-04-06, 04:49 | Link #13 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: UK
|
The egg example was just a side note. My main point was
Quote:
The side note I pointed out here is that acceleration still happens but it is uncontrolled since the magic spell only specified movement. Was the separate short summary I made also confusing? Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by Guest2; 2014-04-06 at 05:05. |
|||
2014-04-06, 05:57 | Link #14 |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
What's confusing? Everything. Let's take the top example. What's the difference between acceleration and movement? Or between acceleration and deceleration? Or heck, what's the difference between this example and the one after that?
And what, are you saying that movement is just acceleration with the force maxed out? It seems strange to make a whole other system just for that. |
2014-04-06, 07:38 | Link #15 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: UK
|
Quote:
Or are you asking why the author chose a classification system that separates movement and acceleration magics when the actions go hand in hand? If that's what the confusion is, the simplest guess I can come up with relates to the compatibility between the psion magic sequences themselves, since for specialized CADs only magics for one group can be loaded. Which is all just made up anyway, so the author just chose a simple set of groups that fit well with his idea for magic in his plot. The Mahouka modern magic classification system is stated as just a grouping of magic sequences mainly after observing what the magic does. They could have been classified in several other ways and it is not a new set of rules for how movement and acceleration and etc work. The actions produced by each magic group are all closely interlinked, and any of the systematic magics can be easily combined with one another. Quote:
Quote:
Movement magic is stated as a type of magic that changes an object's speed and path. |
|||
2014-04-06, 07:51 | Link #16 | ||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
Quote:
Quote:
In terms of physics, "changing an object's speed or trajectory", "accelerating it" or "decelerating it" are all the same thing, described by the equation f = ma. So what does magic do, and what's different in acceleration and movement magic, and why would an egg break? (For example, does it suspend Newtonian physics for a bit? Does it create a force?) |
||
2014-04-06, 09:48 | Link #17 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
|
you could understand "Movement" in magic here like the alteration of the coordinate of the target in the information dimension.
For example, object A is standing at (x,y,z), you applied magic (changing the Eidos of the object recorded in the information dimension) so that its coordinate (in the info. dimension) is now (a,b,c), THEN the object will be moved over that destination. For acceleration, you just change the object's velocity Another analogy would be picking up a chess piece vs pushing it So in short, "Movement" type magic alters the coordinate (in the information dimension) of the target, while "Acceleration" deals with velocity. They may produce similar phenomenon and end result, but their nature and properties are different
__________________
|
2014-04-07, 19:24 | Link #18 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
Quote:
Quote:
Order for moving the item is Acceleration -> Movement -> Deceleration - > Movement (Stop). If he takes out the Acceleration part, the egg would splat from getting slammed into pressurized air. If he takes out the Movement part of it, the egg doesn't stop accelerating and the magic gets potentially more complicated. If he takes out the Deceleration part of it, the egg will once again potentially splat once he gets to the Movement (Stop) part of it, and if he doesn't use Movement (Stop), the magic again gets too complicated. Quote:
|
|||
2014-04-20, 22:09 | Link #20 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Rio de Janeiro,
|
Quote:
|
|
|
|