2006-01-04, 08:03 | Link #201 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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What does that tell us about Gilbert's plan? And what does that tell us about Shinn? I leave it to you. On the other hand, if you don't mind, may you read my post here? http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...9&postcount=67 I concluded that the Destiny Plan doesn't keep peace at all. The armies do. Further more, if there HAS been extensive tests done on Destiny Plan, Gilbert would have shown these model communities as shining examples, rather than using a silly cartoon, to sell his plan. Any Global Plan will stop wars. I can have a "Vallen" plan, which is a Plan to banned green peas from being a legal food. To enforce the "Green Peas Plan", I will have to conquer all nations and place secret police in every street. Nations that opposes the plan will sadly have to be destroyed, since their lives are less important than the billions I will be saving. By having the world under my benevolent rule, people will no longer be threatened by the poison that was green peas. And guess what? Wars will stop. And since wars will CETAINLY stop (with there being only one nation in the world), it must be because my plan worked. Green peas WERE the source of all wars. Aren't you glad I forcefully conquered everyone to teach you the way to peace?
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2006-01-04, 08:05 | Link #202 | ||||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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And Dullindal is certainly guilty of attempted genocide. You don't believe he had a hand in the Junius 7 drop? Fine. Just know that I'm of a different opinion there. Quote:
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2006-01-04, 08:47 | Link #203 | ||||
Tsubasa No Kami
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We had no idea WTF the Destiny Plan was all about until Dullindal magically declared it sitting on his pretty white throne inside his spanking new Messiah. Quote:
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Given the enrtire world tires of the Destiny Plan, evil genius Dullindal might already be creating another backup plan in its wake, so that he could still continue "controlling" the world and preserve its "without war" ideal. VS Kira and Lacus choice of a free world wherein a slightest disturbance in the Force could awaken the terrible Jedi Knights from their deep slumber and Strike Freedom, Infinite Justice, or Destiny their way to a bright and happy, peaceful world every 2 years or so (given if Goddess Lacus suddenly realizes her Lacus dust spiels aren't working on the dirty world of PLANT and earth politics aka Lacus suddenly WTF in the believable world of the CE [hopefully])...the CE population do not want any more wars, they are tired of it, and to them, Dullindal's Destiny Plan was the better alternative... @ Anh_Minh I am not saying that I don't believe Dullindal was behind it all along. What I'm trying to point out was that his character was handled very badly and the only evidence pointing out to his evilness was only shown in magazine interviews, which gave us wonderful articles wherein AsuCaga< ShinnLuna and Mwu = Neo. If you believe in them, then... I mean, for all we know, Dullindal was just a "victim" of the "bad guy syndrome" wherein the stereotypical beady eyed person is almost always pointed out as the entire series' villain of villains. See and read: ==> Dullindal's evil wasn't handled properly by Fukuda, and his Destiny Plan was introduced akwardly, and at the same time, it was in Goddess' Lacus eyes, and so it has to be declared totally and unbelievably evil. <== There, get it? Destiny Plan is NOT about genocide. Where the heck did you pick this up?! As for his WMD, the explanation could be found in the emboldened or whatever phrase above this one. The attack or whatever is the "especially since you don't really seem to understand me" thing. I don't know what you were trying to hint at, so I labeled it as attack or whatever. If you didn't mean anything by it, then sorry if I offended you or something.
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2006-01-04, 09:55 | Link #204 | ||||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Just a reminder: Lacus is just a character, same as Dully. The writers decided Dully would be the villain. (And, judging by his character design, decided so early on.) Quote:
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2006-01-04, 11:52 | Link #205 |
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My biggest gripe with the destiny plan is this...
If it does indeed rely on your genes, then that would make most black people work hard larbour type stuff, Since Black people's genes make them physically stronger than most other races.... Also becuase During slave times they were bread for strength too. THen also That would make most Asian people deal with technology an dother things, because thier genese make shtem slightly smarter than other races... so in a way this could sort of be another way of segregation, or pointing out the differences between races... then again my theory could only be experimineted if Dully was successfull, but he wasn't therefore my gripe is quelled. |
2006-01-04, 11:58 | Link #206 |
Gundam Boobs and Boom FTW
Join Date: Dec 2005
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@ Crusader: that's actually a reason the DP would WORK. Think of it...most african americans ARE doing physical labor/bodyguarding/martial arts stuff, most asians ARE doing technological stuff, and Russians are split up into business and engineering and some mathematics ALREADY. A lot of what we do IS hereditary. The fact is that once it becomes forced, people won't like it as much.
It's psychological: people don't like to be told what to do. |
2006-01-04, 12:21 | Link #208 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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In the cartoon they took a person that was not the best for job, removed him from office and replaced him with someone better. The truth remains the it's called evolution not de-evolution. I draw, that doesn't mean I'm as good a drawer as I am at let's say math. I like to draw, but that doesn't make me an artist. Even in something as subjective as art there are standards to judge the "greatness" of an artist. It's called the nine gates of art. So you can judge if someone's a good at something. You can also judge if they're better at other things as well. Nothing is impossible, that you would hide behind it means you no longer look towards the progress of making that which is deemed "impossible" possible. There were a lot of things that were thought be "impossibilities" in the past that are now commonly accept as easily acchieved "It can't" is just an escape for those that don't want to try. limps can be replaced through transplantation. Even by todays standard we can replace or reattach some limbs that have been served. The Cosmic Era seems to have far more advancements in medical technology than we do. Again, it's not solely nature. It's nature in a controlled nuturing environment The idea is that both learned to read an write. The idea is both were taught the same. What makes them different are their genes. The person with genetic genius will far surpass the person without it. In the pasted 100 years more people have died because of war than in another other century of the passed. The Rawanda killing fields saw more death than the massacre of Adolf Hitler's reign of terror. Our society turns out more sociopathic criminals than the historical societies of Rome, China, Japan, Greece. We take children and neglect them to the point that they develop social disorders, and give them the proper psychological motivation to carry out acts like colombin |
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2006-01-04, 14:25 | Link #209 | ||||||||||||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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And while I didn't have perfect grades in French, I was at the top of my class. Does that tall you I wasn't as good in French as in science, or that the way we were graded was different? Quote:
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- having serious doubt on the feasibility of controlling the environments (remember that you'll need a lot of them, because you'll want many different people, and different people react differently to the same environment) - not sold on the uselessness of looking at the results of your genes and "controled environment", and instead just looking at the genes. Quote:
It's the same for less impressive statuses such as competence. You aren't competent at your job until and unless you're doing your job competently. And yet Destiny Plan would grant you the status solely on the basis of your genes. Of some obscure notion of "potential". Quote:
I'll base myself on something I know better than the history of Rwanda. Not that it's saying much. Western Europe. Compare the medieval times, with its constant warfare at both the international and local warfare, and now, where, despite being much more free, don't spend all of our time making war on each other. Quote:
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2006-01-04, 16:45 | Link #210 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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The point is that he didn't want to create the perfect person to replace people. He wanted to create the perfect system in order to allow people to satified even with their genetic diversity and flaws. Your idea is that things going from good to bad. But things evolved for the "better" thus it's called evolution not de-evolution. Which one does he get 100% in and which one does he only get95% in? If you hypothetically put in him advanced course which one does he do better in? If you put him in higher education courses which one does he do better in? You were best in your class in french. Were you the best in you class in science? If not even if you're good a science, there's someone better. You're going to french because that's where you can help the world the best since everyone seems to suck there, you will benifit the world the best by helping expand a field which is underdeveloped. Obviously Gil didn't agree with you our he wouldn't have tried. Turning off the sun? That's easy, just artifically burn it out. The science if something you had to develop by trying Regardless of how you feel, people and society try to control however much they can of their environment. Parents try to put their children in the right "evironment" make the proper home "envirmonment" to to raise them. But naturally agressive child because he has a body that produces too much testosterin. Will still be naturally agressive because his body produces too much testosterin even as a clone. People will elavated chemical imbalances that causes conditions will still have those conditions as a clone. If you raise the same genetic copy in the exact same conditions and teach him in the exact same way. Nature and controlled nuture. The Destiny plan talked about genes being a factor. I never heard anything to make me think that it excluded all other factors. To put people in the jobs they are best suited to do based on genes. I think Gil's smart enough to know people still need training. If as in the extended they can manipulate memory. Then they can change your conditioning as a person. Your 'nuturing'. The is more order in this day and ages Europe than the middle ages. People in power aren't as free to abuse their power as they were in the middle ages. War is more controlled |
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2006-01-04, 17:08 | Link #211 |
Gundam Boobs and Boom FTW
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Any all-encompassing system that tells people how to live their lives does NOT work.
This is why capitalism is so successful, and why the Chinese are successful because they are capitalists in communist disguises. This is why Chinese people as a whole are so successful...they know the meaning of HARD WORK. But off of that topic... Look, I'm no biology expert here, but how the hell would the Destiny Plan even read genetics to see where everyone goes? Genetics determine sex, height, eye color, hair color, metabolic rate, some other stuff as well, but nothing that has to do with what position you would be best in... And in the end, the DP would be no better than communism...from each by his ability, to each according to his need. GUYS, NEWSFUCKINGFLASH: IT DOESN'T WORK. Look at Russia. I immigrated from there because my parents had to stay in line for an hour and a half to get tomatoes! My dad one day chucked one against the wall and said: "I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE HERE" Look at Vietnam. Sure, North Vietnam won the war...now the place is in poverty, so I'm going to take this opportunity to point and laugh at the communistic system. Mao ZeDong...great leap forward...MASS STARVATION!!!! Or you can go read 1984, or Brave New World, or my favorite one, Animal Farm!! (Durandall's Destiny Plan portrayed in another amusing manner!). Guess what? Kira and Lacus were right. Perhaps they didn't have concrete proof, but intuition told them to stop Darth Gichou. I'm telling you, do not underestimate the powers of the light side. How else do you think Kira is able to deflect beam shots with his saber? |
2006-01-04, 19:13 | Link #212 | ||||||||||||||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Besides, you're the one who think genes are oh so important to what kind of individual you'll get. So I ask you: in your society of genius singers/politicians/programmers/pilots... Who's going to grow the food? Quote:
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Also, newsflash: one "higher education course" isn't the same as another, even if they're both about the same subject. Results have to do with factors which may have little to do with the student's talent for the course. Example: I had an algebra teacher with an accent. It bothered me much, it bothered others little. It had nothing to do with our aptitudes with algebra. Quote:
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What's the best job one's suited for? It doesn't depend solely, or even mostly, on genes. Quote:
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2006-01-04, 20:50 | Link #213 |
Pat:TAISAAAAA!
Join Date: Dec 2005
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my thoughts on the entire show.
1-18 the best section of this show cause it had the drama and war feel gundam is legendary for. 19-30 giving way to evil plot devices and reused scenes. 31-38 war feel and drama returns less reused scenes. 39-50 the staff gave up telling a decent story,plot holes,plot devices,and reused scenes take over. what caused gsd to fail was lack of planning and charecters taking 180 turns. ex1:neo this one is obvious once he lost his mask he magicly became mu again. ex2:dullinil another obvious one he suddenly became evil. ex3:shinn from the the best pilot in c.e. to someone who lose by being plot deviced. another thing is obvious charecter shields(don't need to explain this) |
2006-01-04, 21:43 | Link #214 |
Gundam Boobs and Boom FTW
Join Date: Dec 2005
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How was Shinn EVER the best pilot in CE? Recall in ep 8 when Athrun/Yzak trashed chaos he said "O_o so this is the power of the Jachin Due pilots!" so there he already admitted that he wasn't as good. Shinn never fought Athrun gundam v. gundam until the end, in which Athrun SOUNDLY won both times. Shinn beat Kira because Kira was doing everything BUT fighting him. He was sniping grunts, IMing the archangel, trying to high-tail it outta there, hyperventilating, etc... and even later, Kira says it was just a fluke. And then Kira SHOWED that it was a fluke when he hands down pwnt Shinn in ep 42. Shinn won ONE gundam v. gundam fight against Kira/Athrun COMBINED. Let's count Shinn's encounters vs. Kira/Athrun in gundams
1) Ep 24, Kira v. Shinn: Kira/Athrun: 1-0-0, Shinn 0-1-0 2) Ep 28, Kira v. Shinn: Kira/Athrun: 1-0-1, Shinn 0-1-1 3) Ep 32, Kira v. Shinn (for that brief moment), Kira/Athrun: 1-0-2, Shinn: 0-1-2 4) Ep 34, Kira v. Shinn (Ugh) Kira/Athrun: 1-1-2, Shinn: 1-1-2 5) Ep 42, Kira v. Shinn (more consistency this time): Kira/Athrun: 2-1-2, Shinn: 1-2-2 6) Ep 43, Athrun v. Shinn, Kira/Athrun: 3-1-2, Shinn: 1-3-2 7) Kira v. Shinn ep 50 (brief skirmish, Shinn gets trapped by dragoons then railgunned like a bitch): Kira/Athrun: 4-1-2, Shinn 1-4-2 8) Athrun v. Shinn ep 50: Kira/Athrun: 5-1-2, Shinn 1-5-2 Wins are counted as 3 points, losses as 0, ties as 1. Shinn final score: 5 points. Kira/Athrun combined score: 17 points. Even if you'd take one third of that, Shinn is still outscored. Best pilot in CE my ass. He won ONE gundam v. gundam fight against them. If you can call Shinn better compared to all of the times he's lost (5), well... About Neo/Mwu: there was an explanation. He had his memories bottled up, and he regained them. About Durandall: I'll give you credit there. He had me on the fence up to ep 36 (I could understand ep 34's orders...but then once he started saying "Can I rely on you to deal with Athrun," started BSing Shinn, and said "now you disappear for sure, Lacusu Clyne", I said screw him. Very abrupt too. And once again about Shinn: you're saying he was plot deviced all those times, but won fair and square the one time he beat Kira. I say Kira got haxed once, then won on him being the better pilot. Tell me, what would have happened with Shinn in ep 28 had Athrun not cut Kira off? Bulky blast Impulse vs. supermaneuverable Freedom? Please remember that Mwu in Launcher Strike got beat by Rau in a CGUE melee style. Ep 32 Kira wasn't after Shinn's blood anyway, but I counted that for Shinn's benefit anyway. So tell me, does it make more sense to say that there was one plot device used (oh, and a mighty plot device it was INDEED! Kira DID have to get Strike Freedom SOMEHOW, correct?) as opposed to Shinn losing and staying with Impluse/Destiny... You see, Shinn's losses weren't because he had to upgrade to a new gundam. If there was no SF coming, do you honestly think Fukuda would have trashed the Freedom? Odds are, he would have Shinn get Destiny, go rushing madly at Kira, just for Kira to pwn him again anyway (is there REALLY that much of a difference between Freedom and SF aside from dragoons/beamshields?) And let's not forget that Shinn was getting absolutely owned in space. Okay, I'm going to rewatch final plus just so I can find the moment for you when Shinn is getting owned by dragoons. Edit: Crap, final plus is on my laptop...don't have it on me right now...someone do me a favor and find me the time that Shinn turns on WoL, rushes at Kira, starts dodging dragoons, then catches railgun to the face before Rey steps in and tries to divert Kira? |
2006-01-04, 22:46 | Link #215 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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The genius farmer Huh? :: In other words you had a bad teacher cause he inhibited the learning abilities of his students through his own failures to communicate properly and understandable. Teacher should be able to speak audibly Maybe you should teach science and french Job a french scientist? If we had th knowledge to, you know they'd do it. If you knew 100% your kid had the makings to become the next Morzart you'd put music the second he was born. PMS very genetic That's a good idea, you should do a study and publish your findings It's like having the noble prize awarded for game theory discovered at the same time by two different people. It does if gene's is all the seperates the result. If gene's is the only thing different then that's the deciding factor. They were made mentally and physically defecient on purpose so they could be controlled easier The bottom is still controlled by the top. The difference is the bottom has slightly more control of who's on top. There go less freedom. @demon The failure of communism isn't a failure because the systems was faulty. It was because the people running the system were. The thing with capitalism is that it collapses to under the same faultiness but it run with that inherant fault as it's source of power. Kinda the way the body needs air to survive, yet air the geastest source of cellular degradation. We're at an impass. Neither of us will accept of even acknowledge the views of the other, so I'm just going to call this one dead. You don't believe it works. I'm saying it can in theory. We're never going to see eye to eye on this. And right now the more I argue the more cynical and dismissive I'll become so let's just stop here |
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2006-01-04, 22:56 | Link #216 | ||||||||
Nick of Time~
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2006-01-04, 23:06 | Link #217 |
Gundam Boobs and Boom FTW
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Shinn was dodging the dragoons, then got railgunned like a bitch. No, I don't hate the guy, but he was dodging left and right then just got smashed (note: AAAHHHH face) by the railguns. How long do you think Shinn would have lasted under those conditions? Kira barely beat fatass providence with super maneuverable freedom without dragoons. Now factor in SF"s maneuverability and...well...it's stacked against Destiny's capabilities.
Freedom's rainbow attack is still there. Still has the yellow railguns, the blue and red plasma, and green beams. The colors got changed in ratio though. What I said was that the one time Kira lost was a fluke, because he made up for it consistently by beating or drawing Shinn all other times. It's like a chess series or any other sports series. Kira won 3 games, lost 1, Shinn won 1 game, lost 3. The numbers say Kira is the better pilot. Or will someone say that Kira had plot devices on his side at all times and the one time he was on an even playing field with Shinn (read: hyperventilating, not wanting to fight ZAFT back, must have a reason for SF), he loses? Ep 42 to me looked pretty fair and square. Kira was in fight mood, Shinn was in fight mood. Shinn attacks, Shinn gets ass handed to him and has to retreat due to being without much of a melee option (and that ridiculous plot device of that hyper capacitor, just to nail it into some viewers' heads that the reasons he was under already were not enough). So there you go... |
2006-01-04, 23:26 | Link #218 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Damn straight. I am also of this unbiased opinion. |
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2006-01-05, 01:36 | Link #219 |
Schwing!
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Central Texas
Age: 39
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what made it fail......a episode recap at like ep 47 if I'm not mistaken...
having Stellar, Sting and Auel all die...what was the point of having them all as main characters in the beginning? Basically went backwards w/ this than GS which brought in there 3 altered naturals in the second half and died at the end rather than GSD bring in there 3 altered naturals in the beginning and have them all die a good while before the series ended. having Shin and Athrun as main characters, then putting them on the back burner for Kira to take the spotlight again... more banked images than fish in a barrel you could shoot at. |
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