(L) Date A Live II

[Filia Nox]

Originally Posted by SigUp

My dislike of Origami stems from two sources. First is her social behaviour. I do understand why she acts like she acts, the very cool, no emotion thing. But I just can't relate to that, and though it acts like some kind of comedy it doesn't make her likeable for me. The second, I mean, I do understand the anger she feels, but she doesn't even make a concerted effort to channel and direct that anger. Her behaviour is highly dangerous and I do hope she never gets to touch a realizer again (which won't happen, sadly), unless she has that issue sorted out. Right now (at the end of episode 12) her reason for joining the AST seems to be only to kill and not to protect. People like her shouldn't be entrusted with power (if I'm doing her LN portrayal wrong, excuse me on that one, I haven't read that far, yet). Once again, I do understand her anger, but that doesn't make her actions justifiable in this extent. So, you really think it is okay for somebody who has loved ones killed to go out and randomly slaughter everybody who happens to have similar attributes as the killer, regardless of whether he / she actually was the killer?

A girl who became an orphan at the age of 11. You tell me, if that person can ever be NORMAL or act like one, again. Anyone would be anti-social if he/she has gone through a horrific experience. It's not really that hard to relate. You are right on one point though. In the end, it was her vindictive actions that brought more pain and suffering and repercussions all to herself. *sigh* That's why there is a chinese saying, revenge begets another revenge, how will it end? That being said, her reason for joining AST is not "to kill" - don't say it so harsh, will ya? - it's to avenge her family as well as to protect other people from having to go through what she had i.e. watching your parents die. You keep saying that you understand her. But you do not. Because you don't truly stand on her side and see from her point of view. To someone who is intent on vengeance, the end will always justifies the means. Look at Lelouch (Code Geass) and the TV drama, Revenge. It is up to someone whom the angered person trusts - to an extent - to bring her back to her senses. But God forbid, not in taunts! That is just like an invitation to a challenge - which was exactly what Shido did!

And please, Origami only lost her senses this one time because she believed that she had found the culprit. In all other occasions, did she ever go on berserk mode? Oh God...even Shido himself did not deny that it isn't Efreet who killed her parents. He just said "Kotori is human now! You can't kill her! I AM EFREET! SO KILL ME THEN!" What the hell does that mean? What does it tell you?! LOL personally I hate losing. Especially when I am angered. If I am challenged like that in anger mode, I will take it up. But that's just me, I guess. Just face it. Origami is not as well-liked because she is not considered as one of the main heroines unlike all the other female Spirits. Well, I guess that's fine. Everyone has their own preference.

[Kakurin]

I do not need to stand on her side to understand her motivation. Once again, I understand the why, but I can't condone her actions derived from that. And the Lelouch comparison is not entirely fair. To Lelouch the revenge is only one part of his plan, the other is creating a new order. He has a vision, the revenge is part of that vision. I'm not convinced that Origami has some grand plan for a gentle world, that would make her actions more justifiable.

[Riki]

Originally Posted by SigUp

I do not need to stand on her side to understand her motivation. Once again, I understand the why, but I can't condone her actions derived from that. And the Lelouch comparison is not entirely fair. To Lelouch the revenge is only one part of his plan, the other is creating a new order. He has a vision, the revenge is part of that vision. I'm not convinced that Origami has some grand plan for a gentle world, that would make her actions more justifiable.

...Lelouch pretty much had revenge only up in his mind until some character development. And why does people hate Origami? well that's because she is the antagonist against the spirits. The novel/anime portrait the spirits as some kind of helpless pets..so anything that harms them would basically be saying *That's an asshole*. same scenario in reality, a dog bites a man no one bats an eye, a man kills a dog and everyone loses their mind. In the whole series in general, Origami by far has the longest character concentration and still continuing. the spirits basically disappears as soon as they are sealed and become a side-character.

You say Origami's behavior sucks, just because she doesn't show any emotions. One of her purpose is to be comic relief so that's basically the reason.....Heck it is a characteristic of a character the author chose so why are you so picky. You say people that can't channel their anger should not gain power........seriously? the AST isn't a police department, it is made only with the intention to kill the spirits, protecting the citizen is the side-job.

[Ragna92]

Originally Posted by Filia Nox

Just face it. Origami is not as well-liked because she is not considered as one of the main heroines unlike all the other female Spirits. Well, I guess that's fine. Everyone has their own preference.

Actually she is one of the main heroines along with Tohka and Kotori. I'm sure she'll get an arc focused on her one day and that will boost her popularity.

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by Filia Nox

Just face it. Origami is not as well-liked because she is not considered as one of the main heroines unlike all the other female Spirits.

Yyyyyyyeah, this is definitely not true. Just because she hasn't gotten a devoted arc (for which it's only a matter of time) doesn't make her a non-main. In fact, her significant presence in nearly every arc shows that she's one of the mains. (as opposed to spirits like Yoshino who essentially drops off the map after her arc aside from being there in the background)
The anime opening even makes a point of focusing on Tohka, Kotori, AND Origami.

[Filia Nox]

Originally Posted by Riki

...Lelouch pretty much had revenge only up in his mind until some character development. And why does people hate Origami? well that's because she is the antagonist against the spirits. The novel/anime portrait the spirits as some kind of helpless pets..so anything that harms them would basically be saying *That's an asshole*.

Sister (or bro), YOU ARE SO 1000% CORRECT! Exactly! Just because she is essentially the ONLY one who is trying to eliminate the Spirits, she is seen as the "bad guy". :/ That's really the only truth. Of course fangirls/boys will never admit it. Just look at other anime where the "hero" is actually doing something morally or judicially wrong i.e. Light Yagami, Lelouch but we don't see them being hated, do we? Because their respective anime portrays them as "heroes" so no matter what they do, fans will still think they are right.

Anyway, enough of my ranting for this anime now. I just want people to try to understand the character of Tobiichi Origami more and not hating for the sake of hating just because she fights against the more beloved Spirits. Origami is really a good and kind girl. She didn't harm Tohka or Yoshino later in the series and was even willing to be killed by Tohka after she accidentally killed Shido proves that. I hope to see more of her development in the future.

[Filia Nox]

Originally Posted by SigUp

I do not need to stand on her side to understand her motivation. Once again, I understand the why, but I can't condone her actions derived from that. And the Lelouch comparison is not entirely fair. To Lelouch the revenge is only one part of his plan, the other is creating a new order. He has a vision, the revenge is part of that vision. I'm not convinced that Origami has some grand plan for a gentle world, that would make her actions more justifiable.

Let me try to get this straight. So you think that Lelouch's actions are more justifiable instead? In comparison to Origami? Lelouch's ideals are "grand plan for a gentle world"? Seriously? Dude! Wake up! Do you have any idea how many people Lelouch killed or sacrificed to achieve his "grand plan"? Much much more. In a larger scale. Please read up wiki.

"To achieve this aim, he believes that the ends justify the means; he is willing to commit evil if it means bringing down a worse evil in the process. Lelouch also has strong beliefs concerning death and killing. Notably, he states several times through the series, he believes that "only those who are prepared to die, are the ones who have the right to kill." Lelouch is cold, calculating, and is ruthless in battle. He is noted to have the characteristic of being Machiavellian."

The only reason - and difference - why his character was favoured is because he is the protagonist whilst Origami is antihero in the story, like someone just said. Hence I failed to understand how you can condone Lelouch's actions while saying Origami did such and such wrong things.

[Kakurin]

More justifiable =/= justifiable, once again you read my posts only in a black-and-white sense. Oh yeah, I am perfectly aware of how many people Lelouch killed. Starting off with Clovis, JLF Kusakabe, the civilian casualties from the Cornelia - JLF operation, Katase and the rest of the JLF survivors, Euphie and her massacre, the people of the Geass order among others. That's not counting the casualties of the war itself, as well as of the wills of the people he broke through his Geass. But here is not the place to discuss Code Geass.

And you do not need to continue riling yourself up over me hating Origami, because I simply don't. If you've read my initial post, I stated that I am annoyed by her behaviour in this regard. Annoyed is still a very far way from hating. I did state that I do not think of her as likeable. But once again, not everything is either black or white. Not likeable =/= hate. I am indifferent towards her. I did say "dislike" in a post, but yeah, that was poorly worded, it was meant in a sense of "not likeable" instead of "dislike". Sorry if you've gotten the wrong idea from that. But still, even dislike and hate still have their differentiation.

Originally Posted by Riki

You say Origami's behavior sucks, just because she doesn't show any emotions. One of her purpose is to be comic relief so that's basically the reason.....Heck it is a characteristic of a character the author chose so why are you so picky. You say people that can't channel their anger should not gain power........seriously?

Where have I ever said her behaviour in terms of not showing emotion sucks? And I said I know her behaviour acts as comedy. Don't just go over my posts in a split-second and quote things I did not say and neither meant. I also said I can't really relate to that in a sense that I can build a relationship with that character, and I don't think of it as particularly funny if it is done on a permanent basis. Do I need to apologize or justify myself for not gushing over something / thinking something's funny or what? As for the second, I'm pretty sure no army today is keen on handing somebody some kind of advanced weapon if that person is a mental liability. If somebody did something like Origami, stealing a prototype weapon, going on a rampage in a crowded public place, they would get court-martialed and thrown out of the force. But yeah, this is anime world, so I was perhaps a little bit harsh in that statement.

[Filia Nox]

Originally Posted by SigUp

More justifiable =/= justifiable, once again you read my posts only in a black-and-white sense. Oh yeah, I am perfectly aware of how many people Lelouch killed. Starting off with Clovis, JLF Kusakabe, the civilian casualties from the Cornelia - JLF operation, Katase and the rest of the JLF survivors, Euphie and her massacre, the people of the Geass order among others. That's not counting the casualties of the war itself, as well as of the wills of the people he broke through his Geass. But here is not the place to discuss Code Geass.

And you do not need to continue riling yourself up over me hating Origami, because I simply don't. If you've read my initial post, I stated that I am annoyed by her behaviour in this regard. Annoyed is still a very far way from hating. I did state that I do not think of her as likeable. But once again, not everything is either black or white. Not likeable =/= hate. I am indifferent towards her. I did say "dislike" in a post, but yeah, that was poorly worded, it was meant in a sense of "not likeable" instead of "dislike". Sorry if you've gotten the wrong idea from that. But still, even dislike and hate still have their differentiation.

First, I merely used CG as an example because you sounded like you condone - or adored Lelouch - when you mentioned the "vision" part. Sounds a bit hypocritical to me but if I may have misunderstood your meanings, then please excuse me.

Secondly, the slapping part that you have said (in your first post) that you would like to give Origami is in itself a form of hate. Indifference or annoyance would never encompass "slapping" somebody. I agree that your choice of words have upset me and I am glad that we have realise the cause of our friction. Perhaps I should start an Origami fan base soon.

The one person who needed "saving" the most is really Tobiichi Origami. She should have her memories erased too. That's the only way she can let go of her grudges. That's the only way she can live out her childhood happily. Am I really the only one who can see this?

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by Filia Nox

Secondly, the slapping part that you have said (in your first post) that you would like to give Origami is in itself a form of hate. Indifference or annoyance would never encompass "slapping" somebody. I agree that your choice of words have upset me and I am glad that we have realise the cause of our friction. Perhaps I should start an Origami fan base soon.

Slap some sense = a phrasing as to wake her up. Not actually beating her until she surrenders.

As for the fanbase, feel free to do that. But don't blame me for not joining.

[Miraluka]

[Ragna92]

Originally Posted by Miraluka

She's so creepy but I still love her xD

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Ragna92

She's so creepy but I still love her xD

1. She is not creepy.
2. She's MY WAIFU.

I demand that you take your slanderous and adulterous words back!

[Xero8420]

^
Says the guy who's being adulterous, doing the waifu talk.

Originally Posted by Miraluka

I thought I saw this somewhere else.

[Ragna92]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

1. She is not creepy.
2. She's MY WAIFU.

I demand that you take your slanderous and adulterous words back!

Creepy in a good way

[sky black swordman]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

1. She is not creepy.
2. She's MY WAIFU.

I demand that you take your slanderous and adulterous words back!

Agreed and I thought Origami was your WAIFU? ...Two timing?

That video was...

[EroKing]

[Ragna92]

Originally Posted by TheEroKing

OMG! I'm in love

[iamadooddood]

Originally Posted by TheEroKing

This is fanart, right? Because the numerals on the clocks don't look like they're based on the anime or LN.

[HasuMasu]

It is fanart.