AnimeSuki Forums

Haruhara · 2013-10-28, 21:14

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Originally Posted by Vegard Aune

...And one guy here who watched the movie (aka me) considers it one of the most disgustingly horrid things he has ever witnessed..

I feel the same way about the events that happened, but I like the fact that they happened in the movie.

It's been a long time since I felt so shocked and disturbed by a character's actions. It gave me a real sense of horror, and left me feeling cold and empty inside and needing someone to talk to about it. I love it.

Personally I think the ending justifies the movie, without it I don't think it would be a story that needed to be told.

The worst part for me is not knowing if the story will continue. I held my breath after the final scene hoping for some announcement of another movie, but it never came. As much as I like the twist, I don't want it to end like this.

night_sentinel · 2013-10-28, 21:30

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Originally Posted by Haruhara

The worst part for me is not knowing if the story will continue. I held my breath after the final scene hoping for some announcement of another movie, but it never came. As much as I like the twist, I don't want it to end like this.

Yeah me too. They really need to make a Season 2 out of this. They can't end it like that.

On the other hand if there is one positive I can say about the movie, its the "advancement" of character relationships. (shipping goggles time)

I really like the fact that Sayaka is showing signs that she is over Kamijou. Maybe Kyouko x Sayaka can be a reality now. Though personally, my personal OTP is Kyouko/Mami due to their past. Still, the movie introduced or perhaps canonized Charlotte/Mami as an alternative. And I'm liking it. So yeah. ^^

As for my main ship...

I'm having mixed feelings about the development on the movie. On one hand, it seemed to intensify and underscore the feelings between them particularly Homura's. It also makes the pairing more likely now that Madoka is not an abstract concept. But, the movie also put them in some sort of opposite sides...

It does give some nice possibility though.

I love and ship Homura and Madoka to death (and beyond). But, even I know that their relationship is far from healthy and balanced. In every timeline shown, either Madoka or Homura eclipse their partner with the other having no way to catch up.

In the last timeline, Homura dominates through her timeloops and the experiences she has gained there. Beside that, there is no way Homura's feelings will be understood by Madoka since much of its context is scattered in different loops which Madoka has no recollection.

Then, due to Madoka's wish, Homura's feeling finally reached. But, also due to it. Madoka was erased from existence. She become a higher tier being making the imbalance go the opposite way. I think even if they managed to actually form a relationship, it will be horribly unhealthy but then again that's just the way I feel with near omniscient beings relationship with mortals. (Not that there is much way for this to happen since Homura needs to die to get a meeting with Madoka.)

Anyway, with the movie and Akuma! Homura. There arise the chance that there will actually be an equal partnership between my OTP. That and Goddess! Madoka x Akuma! Homura is really really nice aesthetic wise.

Triple_R · 2013-10-28, 22:01

Honestly, as much as I love the main cast of Madoka Magica, they never received much character development in the original TV series.

They became more or less confident. They became more or less hopeful. They became more or less knowledgeable.

But they never truly changed a lot. Most of their core issues remained.

Homura never really accepted Madoka's self-sacrificing heroism, and this movie clearly proves it. Now if there's a continuation, Homura's issues with Madoka may well become front and center.

Sayaka was heroic, but never really tried to talk things out with the people she had issues with. Now she has a chance to. Plus, I think it's a good sign that she went from willing to kill Kyouko to being the one to save Homura. That's a little less Punisher, and a little more Superman, and I'm glad to see that myself.

Madoka never really addressed Homura's feelings for her. Not comprehensively. Now she may well have to if she's ever to regain her previous ascended state. There's a lot of growth potential there, both characterization-wise and relationship-wise.

We didn't get to see much of Kyouko outside of her playing the villain. Now we'll get to see more of Kyouko as a protagonist.

Mami was a very well-wrote and well-defined character, but she also had little screen-time overall. There's still loads that can be done with her character.

Honestly, I'm excited. I'm excited that Sayaka is getting out from under the yoke of Urobuchi. I'm excited that Homura/Madoka can actually go somewhere interesting now.

And hey - Akemi Homura may now become the most prominent yandere of all-time.

There's loads of great kuuderes, but I can't think of many great yanderes. Homura could really revitalize the yandere character type.

But of course, this all depends on SHAFT going somewhere with the story beyond this movie. Because yes, this isn't as good a place to end the narrative as the ending of the TV anime was.

andyjay729 · 2013-10-28, 22:20

As horrifying and sad as this movie ended, I have to say it makes sense. I was afraid the ending wouldn't seem appropriate, and like I said, I have to say it does.

I now have to wonder if Gen is more like Hideaki Anno than anyone thought, and this might be a rather blunt attack on the otaku lifestyle. Think about Madoka representing the moe ideal, and Homura being a flaming otaku. Also of course recall the anti-NEET message of Gargantia, heh.

But what seems saddest to me is how Homura seems to have un-learned all she did by the end of the TV series. (Unless that actually takes place AFTER all this...)

Triple_R · 2013-10-28, 22:53

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Originally Posted by andyjay729

But what seems saddest to me is how Homura seems to have un-learned all she did by the end of the TV series. (Unless that actually takes place AFTER all this...)

My own take is that Homura was never entirely content with what Madoka did in Episode 12. Perhaps that's why this movie ending, at least just on paper, doesn't bother me as much as it does some.

I think that Homura rolled with what Madoka did in Episode 12. Homura probably took some comfort in knowing that at least Madoka made a conscientious decision with full knowledge of the Puella Magi system. Homura probably admired Madoka for making a wish like that.

But this was never what Homura really wanted. In fact, it wasn't even close. Homura's preference was always to keep Madoka a normal human girl who could enjoy a normal, happy human life. I don't think that preference ever went away, Homura simply made the best out of what happened in Episode 12. What other practical choice did she have?

Well, now Homura's given a chance to get what she really wants, and she grabs it. Makes sense to me.

Vegard Aune · 2013-10-28, 23:04

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Originally Posted by Sayaka's sandbag

Soooooo, not trying to be an arse or anything, just curious but what is it about Homu's change that you think detracts that much from the film?

Rather than detracting from the film, I feel it detracts from the series. In that as far as the end to this movie goes, the TV-series finale for all intents and purposes might as well never have happened at all. And considering my wholehearted adoration of how perfectly the show wrapped everything up in a manner that made perfect sense given what we knew by that point, the fact that this movie essentially retcons it out of existence with the twist that "Homura turns into a witch/Satan and somehow manages to overpower and usurp Madoka and throws Madoka's entire system into a fire and replaces it with... something which we at this time know nothing about" really does not sit right with me at all. And since that is ultimately what this entire movie was leading up to, this fact makes the movie as a whole rather impossible to like for me, even if I did find it pretty interesting until that happened.

Oh, and maybe it's just my memory being fuzzy due to most of the finer details of the ending being replaced with either "WHY." or "RAGE." or various comparisons to other works (Incidentally, One More Day. That's another thing this ending brings to mind) but... How did Homura manage to overpower the being who had defeated every single witch in all of history single-handedly anyway? In a previous timeline Madoka managed to destroy the single most powerful witch ever with one shot, for goodness' sake. And this Madoka was even stronger than that Madoka.

daimonth · 2013-10-28, 23:25

I was going to try to explain why Homura did what she did, but I think I'll just post these..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__q9fsZa5vk

Spoiler for Movie:

zato_1one · 2013-10-28, 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vegard Aune

How did Homura manage to overpower the being who had defeated every single witch in all of history single-handedly anyway? In a previous timeline Madoka managed to destroy the single most powerful witch ever with one shot, for goodness' sake. And this Madoka was even stronger than that Madoka.

The easiest explanation is that Madoka was in the most vulnerable state. She wasn't in fighting mode and didn't expect that Homura would do that. It was a surprised attack. This happens a lot in many fighting series. But it mostly happens to the villains due to their cocky nature which always look down on protagonist and drop their guard.

Kazu-kun · 2013-10-28, 23:48

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Originally Posted by Vegard Aune

Homura manage to overpower the being who had defeated every single witch in all of history single-handedly anyway? In a previous timeline Madoka managed to destroy the single most powerful witch ever with one shot, for goodness' sake. And this Madoka was even stronger than that Madoka.

Homura isn't a witch. She's neither witch, nor magical girl. She became god-like like Madoka. Since Madoka's power is meant to defeat witches, maybe they don't even work on something that isn't witch. If that's the case, then it's to be expected she wouldn't be able to do anything against Homura, who isn't a witch.

Endscape · 2013-10-28, 23:52

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Originally Posted by Vegard Aune

Rather than detracting from the film, I feel it detracts from the series. In that as far as the end to this movie goes, the TV-series finale for all intents and purposes might as well never have happened at all.

That's one way to look at it. To me this movie, rather than retconning the TV ending, is more of a continuation. We see the logical conclusion of Homura's behaviour, we see more of Kyoko and Sayaka's relationship, etc. Not to mention some more of QB, which even you must admit is a dangling thread the series left behind.

Come to think of it, why did Homura, who is normally so tight-lipped, tell the truth to QB? That's what's odd to me.

BTW, can someone elaborate on the Kyoko/Sayaka scene? I've heard great things.

**Solace** · 2013-10-29, 00:04

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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Homura isn't a witch. She's neither witch, nor magical girl. She became god-like like Madoka. Since Madoka's power is meant to defeat witches, maybe they don't even work on something that isn't witch. If that's the case, then it's to be expected she wouldn't be able to do anything against Homura, who isn't a witch.

What is Sayaka then? I find her role in the movie to be rather strange.

Kazu-kun · 2013-10-29, 00:15

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Originally Posted by Solace

What is Sayaka then? I find her role in the movie to be rather strange.

Dues ex machina? $hinbo's proxy?

In the movie Sayaka is already dead, of course. How did she get inside QB's barrier, I'm not sure, but she's not the only one. Nagisa is another dead magical girl that got stuck in the barrier and at some point a lot of other dead magical girls appear as well. All the girls that Madoka collected while she was working as Madokami. Maybe Madoka keeps their souls with her all the time, so when she herself got stuck in QB's barrier, all the dead girls ended there as well.

Triple_R · 2013-10-29, 00:22

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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

In the movie Sayaka is already dead, of course. How did she get inside QB's barrier, I'm not sure, but she's not the only one. Nagisa is another dead magical girl that got stuck in the barrier and at some point a lot of other dead magical girls appear as well. All the girls that Madoka collected while she was working as Madokami. Maybe Madoka keeps all their souls with her all the time, so when she herself got stuck in QB's barrier, all the dead girls ended there as well.

That makes sense to me.

The alternative explanation is that this is a "new" Sayaka created purely out of Homura's memories of the real/original Sayaka. But honestly, I'd rather not think that, so I'll go with your idea as long as it's plausible.

Hagoshod · 2013-10-29, 02:10

Will someone please tell these people why Madoka already had an ending?

Like, if you enjoy Rebellion on a thematic level or you're just okay with how it obviously retcons things to be extra grimdark, that's fine. That's your prerogative and more power to you, man. But you've got to be fucking kidding yourself if you honestly think the TV show ended on a desperate cliffhanger and actually NEEDED this shit.

Vegard Aune · 2013-10-29, 02:35

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Originally Posted by Endscape

That's one way to look at it. To me this movie, rather than retconning the TV ending, is more of a continuation. We see the logical conclusion of Homura's behaviour, we see more of Kyoko and Sayaka's relationship, etc. Not to mention some more of QB, which even you must admit is a dangling thread the series left behind.

...Rather than retconning the TV ending? Homura REWROTE THE ENTIRE FREAKING UNIVERSE AND REMOVED ANY POWER MADOKA MAY HAVE HAD, ALSO NEGATING ANY ACTIONS SHE MAY HAVE HAD AND (presumably) TOOK AWAY ANY REASONS SHE MAY HAVE DONE THOSE ACTIONS TO BEGIN WITH. It doesn't get much more "retconning the TV ending" than that. As for Kyubey, no, I do not feel that that was a dangling thread the TV-series left behind, because even though Kyubey was basically the Big Bad of the show, the focus was never "We must defeat Kyubey!" And I never seem to recall anyone particularly saying anything that the resolution to the show left anything unresolved in terms to his character either... Well aside from the people who wanted it to involve him suffering somehow, in which case this movie would probably be a thing of beauty to them because if there was one thing I got out of that final scene, it was that Kyubey was indeed suffering. Oh sure, now we see people all over the place saying that telling Kyubey about the witch-system that Madoka erased was a terrible idea... but I never saw anyone bring this point up before this movie came out, and I don't exactly see "Homura is droven into the depths of despair and turns into Satan" to be a particularly logical outcome of her telling him about it either.

AuraTwilight · 2013-10-29, 02:36

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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

And you were the one talking about an "awful lot of Ifs and Maybes."

Well, we KNOW she takes them to another universe. And, almost by definition, that universe has different laws of physics because Madoka can take people there like it ain't no thang post-mortem. :P But that's my personal conjecture. We can pretty much take for granted it's not a lotus eater machine witch barrier, though, because otherwise Goddess Madoka is just Super-Gretchen and that's not thematically appropriate on any level.

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I doubt Madoka's omniscient. Certainly Homura's actions here took her by surprise big time. As for a world that is No-Strings-Attached-Actually-Perfect... well, this is Urobuchi we're talking about so it's pretty unlikely.

The 'perfect heaven' thing's just my own personal fanon. :P As for being omniscient, well... She's everywhere and "Sees all universes that ever were, and ever will be", and exists in every moment of time.

She pretty much HAS to be omniscient, and her being caught by surprise in this movie at all is kind of a plot hole/retcon.

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If Madokami is supposedly all-knowing, then how did she not foresee the events of this movie, and presumably find a way to prevent them from happening if she didn't want them to happen?

I see only two real possibilities...

1) Madokami is not all-knowing, and hence some here have overestimated (perhaps even greatly overestimated) her abilities/powers. Homura genuinely surprised her.

2) Madokami wanted Homura to do this, and hence allowed it to happen.

Or God-Homura is like....double transcendent. Since she's basically already Double God. Madoka manipulates Metaphysics, Homura governs Pataphysics.

Or it's just a plothole/retcon. Because if Madokami can see all universes that WILL be, she should've already seem Homuverse.

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I doubt that Madokami was all-knowing, but in fairness to AuraTwilight, I can imagine interpretations that would make that idea possible at least.

To be fair to me, Madokami literally said she was. :P If she turns out not to be, it's a blatant retcon. You can't even really use "Madoka overestimated herself" because the only evidence to support that comes from an artificially induced sequel movie that already seems to retcon the original anime's epilogue (whether literally, in Homura's characterization, or whatever grievance one might raise, valid or otherwise).

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What isn't possible is for Madokami to be all-knowing and truly against what Homura did in this movie. The idea that Madoka was this all-knowing God-like entity and that she wanted to stay that way, simply doesn't fly given the events of this movie. She either was never that entity to begin with (she was something cosmic, sure, but much smaller scale - think Marvel Comic's Galactus), or she was, but she wanted Homura to do what she did.

In the latter case, perhaps Madoka was secretly unhappy with the weight of the Puella Magi world on her shoulders.

What if Homura never escaped her dream barrier? Maybe the entire movie from beginning to end is Homura's fantasy and she just went deeper down the rabbit hole?

(This is why you never invoke dream world shenanigans ever)

Endscape · 2013-10-29, 02:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vegard Aune

...Rather than retconning the TV ending? Homura REWROTE THE ENTIRE FREAKING UNIVERSE AND REMOVED ANY POWER MADOKA MAY HAVE HAD, ALSO NEGATING ANY ACTIONS SHE MAY HAVE HAD AND (presumably) TOOK AWAY ANY REASONS SHE MAY HAVE DONE THOSE ACTIONS TO BEGIN WITH. It doesn't get much more "retconning the TV ending" than that.

... Are you aware of what a retcon is? One More Day, the most infamous Spider man stories ever, is a retcon. I can't really consider this a retcon, we have no idea where this incident will lead, since the ending is so open. The fact that Madoka is shown breaking free, even temporarily, that Homura acknowledges that they'll end up as enemies, a bunch of stuff really.

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As for Kyubey, no, I do not feel that that was a dangling thread the TV-series left behind, because even though Kyubey was basically the Big Bad of the show, the focus was never "We must defeat Kyubey!"

Your point? What was done about QB in the end? Nothing at all. That's a dangling thread. It's exactly like what Urobuchi did in PSycho-Pass actually.

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Oh sure, now we see people all over the place saying that telling Kyubey about the witch-system that Madoka erased was a terrible idea... but I never saw anyone bring this point up before this movie came out,

Again, what's your point? Just because no one, as far as you are aware brought it up, it's not a valid point?

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and I don't exactly see "Homura is droven into the depths of despair and turns into Satan" to be a particularly logical outcome of her telling him about it either.

I never said that either. I said, Homura's action are a logical conclusion of the attitude she had for the whole show.

Kazu-kun · 2013-10-29, 03:07

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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Well, we KNOW she takes them to another universe.

We know that she collects them, but we don't know what she does with them. Furthermore, this movie suggests that she keeps them with her at all times, not unlike how Homura used to keep guns inside her shield.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Or it's just a plothole/retcon. Because if Madokami can see all universes that WILL be, she should've already seem Homuverse.

It's probably a retcon, since that part of the movie was $hinbo's idea anyway. At that point I doubt Urobuchi cared if it was perfectly consistent with tv the series. After all, he won't write for this franchise anymore...

**Solace** · 2013-10-29, 03:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vegard Aune

As for Kyubey, no, I do not feel that that was a dangling thread the TV-series left behind, because even though Kyubey was basically the Big Bad of the show, the focus was never "We must defeat Kyubey!" And I never seem to recall anyone particularly saying anything that the resolution to the show left anything unresolved in terms to his character either...

There are years worth of speculation and discussion in this forum alone. Even I hit on a few of the themes touched upon in the movie. Here's my speculation after episode 10, about what Homura needed to do to "win".

Theories about what can happen in Madoka are all over the place. Chances are quite good that someone has suggested what will happen next and they'd be correct.

I wish people would knock off the overreactions. It's just a damn movie.

Hachiko · 2013-10-29, 03:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solace

I wish people would knock off the overreactions. It's just a damn movie.

This. It got people talking though. The movie did its job.

2013-10-28, 22:01	Link #503
Triple_R Senior Member Author Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Age: 42	Honestly, as much as I love the main cast of Madoka Magica, they never received much character development in the original TV series. They became more or less confident. They became more or less hopeful. They became more or less knowledgeable. But they never truly changed a lot. Most of their core issues remained. Homura never really accepted Madoka's self-sacrificing heroism, and this movie clearly proves it. Now if there's a continuation, Homura's issues with Madoka may well become front and center. Sayaka was heroic, but never really tried to talk things out with the people she had issues with. Now she has a chance to. Plus, I think it's a good sign that she went from willing to kill Kyouko to being the one to save Homura. That's a little less Punisher, and a little more Superman, and I'm glad to see that myself. Madoka never really addressed Homura's feelings for her. Not comprehensively. Now she may well have to if she's ever to regain her previous ascended state. There's a lot of growth potential there, both characterization-wise and relationship-wise. We didn't get to see much of Kyouko outside of her playing the villain. Now we'll get to see more of Kyouko as a protagonist. Mami was a very well-wrote and well-defined character, but she also had little screen-time overall. There's still loads that can be done with her character. Honestly, I'm excited. I'm excited that Sayaka is getting out from under the yoke of Urobuchi. I'm excited that Homura/Madoka can actually go somewhere interesting now. And hey - Akemi Homura may now become the most prominent yandere of all-time. There's loads of great kuuderes, but I can't think of many great yanderes. Homura could really revitalize the yandere character type. But of course, this all depends on SHAFT going somewhere with the story beyond this movie. Because yes, this isn't as good a place to end the narrative as the ending of the TV anime was. __________________

2013-10-28, 23:25	Link #507
daimonth Kohaku Law Firm Join Date: Dec 2003	I was going to try to explain why Homura did what she did, but I think I'll just post these.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__q9fsZa5vk Spoiler for Movie: Worked from Audio rip and Chinese translation to the best of my ability... 63:11 Homura: I had a very scary dream. Madoka: A scary dream? Homura: In that dream Madoka went to a place far away, a place that I could never reach. I was the only one who remembered Madoka, I was lonely and in pain. However no else understood my feeling. In the end I doubted whether or not the Madoka I remembered ever existed in the first place or just that something I imagined. Madoka: That is a very painful dream, however don't worry, i would never go away. Homura: How can you be so certain? Madoka: Because that is something that even Homura-chan started to cry about, I would never be able to endure it? Homura: That is also something that is unbearable to you? Madoka: That is right, Homura-chan Sayaka-chan, Mami-san, Kyouko-chan, papa, mama, Tatsuya and Hitomi-chan and the rest of the class, I don't want to part with any of you. Even if that is something I must do, I would not have the courage to go through when the time comes. Homura: Ah... is that so.... is this your true feeling then? Then I was a fool to have misunderstood it. I should not have approved. I should have used every possible mean to stop you back then. Madoka... I know.. that you are kind to everyone and not afraid of making choices. When you feel that there is something that only you can do, you would not hesitate even if it means hurting yourself. Madoka: Homura-chan? Homura: As I thought... you didn't remember it. Once I thought you were just a mirage... a construct made by someone else. How else would I have been able to meet you again like this? But I know, you definitely are the real Madoka. I am really happy, to be able to speak to you again, to be able to feel your gentleness like this once more. Thank you, this is more than enough happiness for me. I need to go now, there are still much to be done. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 72:20 QB:Even though you shouldnt have wanted to know the truth, but you can't help but chase after it. Human curiosity is really illogical. Well, I have long thought that you would have found the answer, Akemi Homura. Homura: Incubator, of course you are the one behind all this. QB: The question is thus, where exactly is your life and soul located. Well, let me show you the answer. This is what is beyond the boundary of this fake Mitakihara, your condition in the real world. Homura: How!! QB: We created a barrier field surronding your soul gem that prevented all intereference from outside. What will happen when we seal off a soul gem that is darkened to the limit? Homura: An experiment..... QB: When we isolate it from the power that purifies and ascends magic girls, the power that you called 'laws of cycle' then what will happen to the soul gem? The resulting observation is indeed rather fascinating. An isolated dimension was formed with its own independent law that seeks to guide and capture victims from the outside... This match what you have previously explained, the power of a 'witch'. So long as you are protected by the isolation field, then you would not become a full 'witch'. Like a chick who grew up within its own shell. That is why you formed a labryinth within. It's quite shocking that it is fully capable of replicating and reproducing an entire city. This place we are at right now, is a world existing solely within your own soul gem. Homura: That is quite a strange logic, if it's isolated from the outside world. Then it should not possible for someone to enter the labyrinth. QB: That is due to our adjustment. The isolation field will only stop interference from one direction. Even though it will reject all attempts from the outside, it is still possible to guide a victim in from the inside. Only targets that your witch side unconsciously seeks will enter this world. After such limitation, if the force known as 'law of cycle' seeks to contact Akemi Homura still. Then the only way it will enter is through being captured by the labyrinth as a victim and be forced to materialize in this world. In that case, us Incubator will then finally be able to ascertain the puzzle behind magic girl's disappearance, and observe it directly. In fact, the characters that existed in the real world already joined in strange ways. What is more fascinating, a girl that neither existed in past memory nor future possibility, someone who should have no connection, no cause or effect to this world, joined seemlessly in your world. Well, there was never any need to search, from the begining you have made things easier for us, Akemi Homura. Even before this all started, you have always called the 'law of cycles' by the name of Kaname Madoka. Homura: Then she is really.. QB: The only troublesome point was that, it does not appear that Kaname Madoka possess any unique power. It seems that the memory control effect produced by the labryinth is effective even against Madoka. Not only has she forgot the purpose of providing salvation to you, she even forgot her true identity and power. As such we had no way of progression. QB: Kaname Madoka forgot her identity as goddess, Akemi Homura forgot her identity as 'witch'. Due to this circumstance we are forced to run around in circle meaninglessly. Well, even though we were intending on waiting for the chick to break its shell, but since now that you have come to the truth, it should make things easier to upset the status quo. Now then Akemi Homura, just seek the help of Madoka, that way she will remember her own identiy, and the reason why she came here. Homura: Incubator, what is your goal? QB: Of course it's to observe the force,'law of cycle', that is only a theory up till now. Homura: Why? For beings who speak of mere curiosity as illogical, why would you go through the trouble of setting up all this to merely ascertain an existence? No, what you seek is to control Madoka! QB: I wont deny that was our final goal. Well this is a difficult road in itself. The occurence itself is a puzzle to us completely, an existence that can not be ascertained is truly difficult to handle. Homura: It would not be you to give up so easily. QB: That is correct, if it can be observed , then it can be interfered with. If It can be interefered with, then it can be controled. One day we will be able to fully strip the power of 'law of cycles'. That way Magic girl will become witches once again, energy collection on a higher level then can be expected. The conversion of energy from hope to despair will be of a level beyond our expectation thus far. There truly exists infinite possibility within magic girls. From the process of you turning into witches, its value will then be shown. Homura: tsk QB: Why are you so angry? This is really a topic that no longer relates to you. The existence known as Akemi Homura is over. At the end of your cruel destiny, you have completed the promise to meet again with the existence that is most important to you. That should be a joyous occasion. Homura: No, I have never sought, such happiness. QB: Unbelievable, you are letting your own grief increase on purpose... !? What are you thinking, there would not be any time for purification! Homura: Even though you would not know that right now. But I became a magic girl with but one wish, 'to save Madoka'. That is why I will do so again this time. I would rather become a witch than reveal Madokas secret any further. I wont let you incubator have any further contact with her. QB: You want to deny salvation with such a reasoning? You want to spend an eternity cursing the world? Homura: It's fine, this labyrinth will become my grave. Both Tomoe Mami and Sakura Kyouko are here, I believe in them. QB:How can it be! Do you know what It means to die within the isolation field? If you refuse to break the shell and became a witch from within, then you wont be detected by 'law of cycle' and vanish. No one will be able to save you from despair then! And you will once again, lose your chance to reunite with Kaname Madoka. Homura: Shut up! QB: This will undoubtly be the worst end for you.... really, why are human beings so illogical. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ultimately its a clash of ideals. Homura wished for Madoka's happiness. Madoka wished for the happiness of everyone else, but not necessary her own. I wouldn't even call it a step backward because it's the old debate, individual happiness vs group happiness, order vs freedom, whether end justifies the means. For what its worth, I believe Homura created a world where Madoka and co. can be happy, just that their individual will was ignored in the process.

2013-10-28, 22:20	Link #504
andyjay729 YOU EEDIOT!!! Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: I'm right behind you Age: 41	As horrifying and sad as this movie ended, I have to say it makes sense. I was afraid the ending wouldn't seem appropriate, and like I said, I have to say it does. I now have to wonder if Gen is more like Hideaki Anno than anyone thought, and this might be a rather blunt attack on the otaku lifestyle. Think about Madoka representing the moe ideal, and Homura being a flaming otaku. Also of course recall the anti-NEET message of Gargantia, heh. But what seems saddest to me is how Homura seems to have un-learned all she did by the end of the TV series. (Unless that actually takes place AFTER all this...)

2013-10-29, 02:10	Link #514
Hagoshod Banned Join Date: Feb 2011	Will someone please tell these people why Madoka already had an ending? Like, if you enjoy Rebellion on a thematic level or you're just okay with how it obviously retcons things to be extra grimdark, that's fine. That's your prerogative and more power to you, man. But you've got to be fucking kidding yourself if you honestly think the TV show ended on a desperate cliffhanger and actually NEEDED this shit.