[Manga] Chapter 449 Discussion

[AuroraFlash]

Originally Posted by Cub-Sama

I thought that was the sharingan

On a more serious note it is called the samsara eye and Jiraiya said Nagato might be Rikkudou Sennin reincarnate so I won't be surprised if someone with the rin'negan shows up again in the story who has a resemblance or maybe absolutely none at all to Nagato. Wouldn't it be funny if Nagato was reincarnated?

That's my idea and I guess Nagato looks like sage of the 6 paths anyways... that dark hair, the eyes...

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Originally Posted by Pailong

hmmm rinnegan was kinda disappointing. this was supposed to be the most powerful of all eye-jutsu's yet it seems like sharingan is more powerful. Kishi shoulda made more emphasis on it but before you know it, rinnegan is gone. was it even worth mentioning?

another thing that bothers me is how naruto beat pain so easily. Jiraiya struggled with Pain, and also Pain is supposed to be the leader (or front) of akatsuki, yet he was easily beaten by naruto. Guess that means naruto/sasuke are a lot more stronger than the legendary three plus Pain? i guess so, seeing as how sasuke beat orochimaru...

shoulda had more from the rinnegan, the eyes that supposedly helped create ninjutsu...

You seriously got to be joking. The reason everyone freaked out this last chapter is because this man all of a sudden revived hundreds or thousands dead villagers and shinobi. That was a Rinnegan ability.

The others...repel or draw in ANY kind of ninjutsu or physical attack he nuked Konoha with this one. To read ones mind without seals or equipment..telepathy..a freaking cyborg from Terminator 3 or 4. One man who simply absorbs any jutsu..a demon who can revive everyone back to normal.. summoning whatever and as many times as you like. I probably forgot alot...but i case you forgot Pain used pretty much the entire battle with Naruto and Konoha bloodline techniques.

He never used handsealed jutsu's..such as Sasuke's Katon etc. only techniques which were given or obtained because of the Rinnegan. How does the Sharingan seem more impressive/stronger then that?

Originally Posted by Hunter

He didn't become a hero, he was a tragic villain who found redemption, not quite the same.
Mr. Johnny 5 I suppose DEM stands for deus ex machina.

Hmmm.. ok. Not entirely sure when DEM was brought up or what it exactly means but thanks.

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Why do you think Naruto has to become friends with everyone? Naruto is based on DB/DBZ heavily but Goku didn't become friends with everyone. There were very strong final villains that were made his enemies until death like Freeza, Cell, etc., then there were people who very evil but changed like Vegeta, the 3-eyes guy, Piccolo and Buu. Madara seems to be the Cell+Dr.Gero characters all in one, so he will definitely stay evil until he is completely destroyed somehow. In Nagato's case his childhood and his relation to Jiraiya were shown even before the final fight, that had to be for some reason, so that was quite a big hint that this fight will not end in the usual way, although i didn't expect this outcome. However this ending of the fight had made a hero of Nagato in the end, even if it's a tragic hero like Itachi, while in the case of Madara i'm sure there'll be no hero moments for him.

The reason is because only Orochimaru seemed unimpressed by Naruto's tragic speeches. Everyone falls for his words. A upcomming president/kage like no other.
I'll bet his charisma is top notch level and surpasses that of the Shodai Hokage.
Madara becoming a friend is the last thing i want to see though. At the beginning of Naruto there was anger, details in destroyed bodies etc. and now its becoming more and more like.. well American production without the details...becoming friends with everyone etc.. I dislike that you know

Originally Posted by Justin Kim

Whoah, I would not go as far as to say that Pain's chakra was way higher than Naruto's chakra. Naruto had the ability to kill Nagato right there on the spot.
Chakra capacity is not what makes one more powerfull i'd say. And besides. Naruto itself is the biggest chakra cheater there is. He has now 3 types of chakra he can use.

His own chakra capacity itself is the largest in the village surpassing that of Tsunade. Then he has the Kyuubi chakra which is an other stronger type of chakra a dark energy which is probably infinite.

And ofcourse his Sennin (nature) Chakra which is also an infinite supply and seems even stronger then the Kyuubi Chakra which is probably the light. The good chakra.

Pain/Nagato on the other hand fought against hundreds of Konoha Shinobi and destroyed Konoha before he faced Naruto. The amount of chakra he used in his fight before Naruto came was already unimaginable for people like Kakashi or Tsunade. And in his fight with Naruto he also used alot of chakra.

Originally Posted by Cub-Sama

Did you just forget when one of the Pain's used it's tech to heal the dead Demon Realm to perfect condition that is what happened back then as well because what Nagato did required throwing their souls back at them. If he did that in the Jiraiya's fight then they would not require black rods as they would have their own soul, Nagato still had to use his chakra to control them. Gedo Rine Tensei is completely different from is it Human Realm (or was it a different realms) tech.

Also that tech requires Nagato what happened when the Pains was brought back to life was Human Realm's tech not Nagato's.

Hmmm what do you mean with the bold part? Nagato is the one pulling the strings right? He basically seperated his own powers in each body. So...Humans Realm has to be Nagato just like all the other powers.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Phenomenal

Nagato reviving Konoha to help Naruto find peace helps the plot, Konoha helping Naruto against Akatsuki, Taka and whoever else is good for the plot.

"Well, rather leaving them death would've made things more complicated and thus better plot."

That's what I siad.

Because Nagato always held doubts about his chosen path, because he knew that it wasn't what Jiraiya, and deep down, he wanted to do. It was just the best option he saw open to him. It was also the reason why we got chapter after chapter of Nagato's philosophy and his demand of Naruto to come up with a better solution. Or did you just skip over those chapters? It's not about being right or wrong [never was], it's about Faith.

Nagato holding doubts over chosen path? His demand for Naruto to come up with a better solution was simply done to demoralise him. There was never anything to suggest he held doubts over his chosen path. He showed no moral qualms about his actions. He believed himself to be God for crying out loud.

Canon > Your opinion.

The only time we saw Nagato showing doubts over his philosophy was when Naruto read him that book. Nagato holding his doubts over his chosen path? If that's the case then there really wasn't any need for Naruto to read him that book, after already breaking the chain of hatred. My point still stands. It still doesn't explain why Nagato needed remembering something he clearly didn't forget. Unrealistic contemplation. Just like I said.

It was about faith the whole time? You see this is what I mean?: "This manga doesn't even attempt to address questions it doesn't seem to even know it's making.". Is Nagato's God complex justified? What is the greater good? The moral highground? Kishi had a golden opportunity
to answer all these questions but instead he took the easy road and made it all down to faith. If it really was about faith the whole time, then this manga isn't as good as I thought it was.

So you've ignored canon once again....Nothing changes the fact that the bodies [controlled or not] DIED and Nagato brought them back to life from the DEAD.

Canon > Your opinions.
No DEM.

Nothing changes the fact that Nagato's ultimate revival technique is clearly different to him animating corpses with his own life. Those Pains weren't living. They were just reanimated corpses he was controlling. We were led to believe that Nagato could reanimate corpses but there was nothing to suggest he could bring their own conciousness back. Define life. A living thing is something self sustaining.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life

Those Pains were no more self sustaining than Sasori's puppets. If Nagato died, they would've too. They weren't moving, speaking, fighting on their own accord, like any other living creature. That was Nagato doing all that. Nagato did not give life to those bodies in the same way he gave life back to everyone he killed. You can use the same words but they still mean something different when put under context.

Canon > Your opinions.
Is DEM.

See the bold....And that's the point...Do you really think Kishimoto is gonna allow Nagato to let loose a cluster of high level jutsu that would kill Naruto instantly? The main character? This was my reasons for saying why Naruto is the main character and regardless of what the enemy has or coulda used or didn't use the main character Naruto will always have the shield around him. Understand what I'm saying and the reasons why Nagato would never do what James suggested. Everyone knows that would never have happened.

That's not a good thing. Do you know what the suspension of disbelief is?

It's a still a plot device. A good writer would rather let his character die than survive through plot devices. If Kishimoto wants Naruto to survive then he should have the Naruto triumph realistically. This means no plot holes or plot devices. I recommend you read "A Song of Ice and Fire" by George R.R. Martin.

[Mr. Johnny 5]

May i remind the people here that Wikipedia is an unreliable source which is most of the times not 100% accurate. And which sometimes (not rarely but sometimes) contains false information.

[Sakuranbo]

Also Foreshadowing does not = Deus Ex Machina, because it is alluding to something that WILL happen.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

May i remind the people here that Wikipedia is an unreliable source which is most of the times not 100% accurate. And which sometimes (not rarely but sometimes) contains false information.

Well, I do Biology. I know what life is. I'm just using that to illustrate that there's a biological definition. And also the fact that MRS NERG sounds kinda lame. And it's better than nothing.

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Originally Posted by Haak

Well, I do Biology. I know what life is. I'm just using that to illustrate that there's a biological definition. And also the fact that MRS NERG sounds kinda lame. And it's better than nothing.

Well it wasnt directed at specific persons but many here on the forums refer their sources to wikipedia. Which is why i decided to let those who werent aware of it know that wikipedia isnt entirely reliable.

[Alchemist007]

But most of the time it is. When it isn't, it's pretty freakin obvious.

[iBeast]

What are you fools still babbling about? Kishi needs to release the next chapter already...were starting to talk about life? lol...

[epyon96]

I wasn't sure here. Can someone confirm if Shizune was revived?

How about the frog that Danzou killed?

[Sasuke_Bateman]

Spoiler for 450:

Naruto heads back to the village exhausted. There he finds Kakashi, whose shoulder he lends.
Naruto is meet by a horde of fans back in the village.(Kakashi praises him in his mind)

Naruto sheds a tear in the distance. Hinata thinks back to how lonely Naruto was in his childhood, and compares that to the present time. Iruka gets tears in his eyes over sees how Naruto is adored by everyone. Sakura punches Naruto in the face, then immediately hugs him.
Shikaku thanks Naruto in his mind, and calls for an important meeting.(Concerning the Jounin squad leaders)

Zetsu is watching.

"Pain was killed... I'll report this to Tobi"
Scene changes to Akatsuki

Zetsu: "With Pain killed, I don't think Konan will be coming back here"
Madara: [Unsure, he says something about two persons who can make a link to Gedou Mazou, or something]
Madara: "Kisame, you'll go after Hachibi. I have something to take care of after this."
Scene changes to Konoha
The envoy from the Cloud finally arrives.

"Tsunade exhausted herself?" [Unsure about the rest of this line]

Sakura is at a loss too.

Then there's a meeting to decide the next Hokage for the Fire Country.
Before Danzou can introduce himself, Shikaku recommends Kakashi.
Danzou is disgusted
Everyone agrees[with Shikaku], but Danzou protests
"The one who destroyed Konoha is Jiraiya's pupil"
"The betrayal of our allies, the Sand"
"Orochimaru's destruction of Konoha"
"And the nuke-nin, Uchiha Sasuke"
"This was all caused by the Sandaime Hokage's lenient way of thinking"

He then nominates himself to be Hokage.

The Fire Daimyou appoints him[Danzou] as the Rokudaime Hokage.

Danzou smiles from ear to ear

Fin

[Haak]

Spoiler for for Chapter 450:

WTF. Tsunade died? When? How?

[Sasuke_Bateman]

Originally Posted by Haak

Spoiler for for Chapter 450:

WTF. Tsunade died? When? How?

She's in a coma

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Haak

Spoiler for for Chapter 450:

WTF. Tsunade died? When? How?

Spoiler:

If these are real spoiler, which doesnt seems so, this means just that Tsunade was striped of her position. If She died, right after pain exhausted his Jutsu, then this is getting more retarded by the minute.

[Sasuke_Bateman]

Originally Posted by Rurik

Spoiler:

If these are real spoiler, which doesnt seems so, this means just that Tsunade was striped of her position. If She died, right after pain exhausted his Jutsu, then this is getting more retarded by the minute.

It's been confirm.

Spoiler for corrections:

madara is going to see if he can make a link with gendou mazou even with two less people.

and second

tsunade used all her power just to cut it (save as much people as she could, pretty much she went to the extreme) and some times (now and again) when she goes into her old state she goes into a comatose state (lethargic). (assuming ババア is referring to here.)

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Sasuke_Bateman

Spoiler:

tsunade used all her power just to cut it (save as much people as she could, pretty much she went to the extreme) and some times (now and again) when she goes into her old state she goes into a comatose state (lethargic). (assuming ババア is referring to here.)

Spoiler:

So, she was striped of her position then

[Sasuke_Bateman]

Originally Posted by Rurik

Spoiler:

So, she was striped of her position then

Lol thankfully

[Haak]

The next chapter looks to be interesting, then.

[Cub-Sama]

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

Hmmm what do you mean with the bold part? Nagato is the one pulling the strings right? He basically seperated his own powers in each body. So...Humans Realm has to be Nagato just like all the other powers.

What I'm saying is each Pain is designated a different power and it doesn't seem Pain has the ability to switch the power that a certain Pain has otherwise he could've switched God Realm's with Hungry Ghost realm to protect him so the probability of Human Realm using the same technique Nagato used in the current chapter is low.

Originally Posted by Sasuke_Bateman

Spoiler for 450:

Naruto heads back to the village exhausted. There he finds Kakashi, whose shoulder he lends.
Naruto is meet by a horde of fans back in the village.(Kakashi praises him in his mind)

Naruto sheds a tear in the distance. Hinata thinks back to how lonely Naruto was in his childhood, and compares that to the present time. Iruka gets tears in his eyes over sees how Naruto is adored by everyone. Sakura punches Naruto in the face, then immediately hugs him.
Shikaku thanks Naruto in his mind, and calls for an important meeting.(Concerning the Jounin squad leaders)

Zetsu is watching.

"Pain was killed... I'll report this to Tobi"
Scene changes to Akatsuki

Zetsu: "With Pain killed, I don't think Konan will be coming back here"
Madara: [Unsure, he says something about two persons who can make a link to Gedou Mazou, or something]
Madara: "Kisame, you'll go after Hachibi. I have something to take care of after this."
Scene changes to Konoha
The envoy from the Cloud finally arrives.

"Tsunade exhausted herself?" [Unsure about the rest of this line]

Sakura is at a loss too.

Then there's a meeting to decide the next Hokage for the Fire Country.
Before Danzou can introduce himself, Shikaku recommends Kakashi.
Danzou is disgusted
Everyone agrees[with Shikaku], but Danzou protests
"The one who destroyed Konoha is Jiraiya's pupil"
"The betrayal of our allies, the Sand"
"Orochimaru's destruction of Konoha"
"And the nuke-nin, Uchiha Sasuke"
"This was all caused by the Sandaime Hokage's lenient way of thinking"

He then nominates himself to be Hokage.

The Fire Daimyou appoints him[Danzou] as the Rokudaime Hokage.

Danzou smiles from ear to ear

Fin

What the f*ck they do realize that it was the other things that came along in their lives that screwed them up:

Pain was caused by the death of Yahiko as he was forced by Hanzou and Danzou before that Jiraiya taught them to be peace loving so right there is Danzou's fault which Naruto could explain if he found out.

Orochimaru caused that and he was screwed up way before Sarutobi's training in fact training under Sarutobi supressed it for some years and made him a valuable asset to Konoha.

And Sasuke was caused by the effects of what Madara, Danzou and the Elders did, Madara caused the Kyuubi to come out, Danzou thought of the massacre of the clan and the Elders agreed so if you think about it Danzou is the last person you would want to see Hokage.

Naruto should be Hokage his I wont give up speech will like I said cause everyone to hold hands and love each other apart from Sasuke who will say 'You don't understand my loss'

[Haak]

Yeah, but the public don't neccessarily know everything that's going on.

I think EVERYONE should read "A Song of Ice anf Fire" by George R.R Martin.

Plus it adds to the plot. I personally welcome Danzao as the Rokudaime Hokage.