[Manga] Chapter 460 Discussion

[james0246]

^Well, it's not like Karin says that Sasuke's chakra has "grown larger" or something along those lines which would indicate that Sasuke is tapping into an unknown power. She merely mentions that it feels more disgusting. In other words, until Sasuke starts releasing more chakra than he is supposed to, this recent revelation is simply a manifestation of hate/psychosis, etc, and not an actual demon. Or, if it is a demon, it has no specific power besides its control over Sasuke.

[Phenomenal]

Originally Posted by Rurik

What Im not sure if this is caused by how much you like this series, or how much you don’t like OP right now....

I like the opening post! Anyone with the sense of a celery stick can see how exciting Naruto has been.

[AuroraFlash]

Originally Posted by james0246

^Well, it's not like Karin says that Sasuke's chakra has "grown larger" or something along those lines which would indicate that Sasuke is tapping into an unknown power. She merely mentions that it feels more disgusting. In other words, until Sasuke starts releasing more chakra than he is supposed to, this recent revelation is simply a manifestation of hate/psychosis, etc, and not an actual demon. Or, if it is a demon, it has no specific power besides its control over Sasuke.

Yes, I was talking about a demon in that case, not about a Kyuubi-like tailed beast monster chakra demon, rather a demon of his own. It might make him stronger, but not in the sense of an extraordinary chakra. Maybe it influences the MS as Kyuubi describes it as "this chakra more sinister than my own".

[AddiKtioNn-BlaCk]

Originally Posted by AuroraFlash

Karin said it was colder and darker than the Cursed Seal II, thus I guess it has nothing to do with Yugo.

Yeah, but Jugo is the source of the seal. Processed fruits wont have the same effects and value as fruit straight from the vine.

Originally Posted by AuroraFlash

Yes, I was talking about a demon in that case, not about a Kyuubi-like tailed beast monster chakra demon, rather a demon of his own. It might make him stronger, but not in the sense of an extraordinary chakra. Maybe it influences the MS as Kyuubi describes it as "this chakra more sinister than my own".

Yeah you right. Everything about the Uchiha involves misery and hatred it seems like. For they're Sharingan to even evolve they haft to kill their loved ones and siblings, then become more consumed by hatred for it to continue to get stronger.

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Originally Posted by Cub-Sama

Very crucial point you made first bout. That is like saying because I failed at punching somebody in the face 3 years ago then after 3 years of intensive boxing training I cant punch that guy in the face.

Sasuke improved his sharingan's ability to read moves exponetially the only reason he couldn't predict Killer Bee's is because Killer Bee is like Mugen he doesnt have a readible style and just moves about fast and randomly.

So you are saying that Sasuke couldn't read his moves because they were unpredictable? So basically that would make Lee's drunken style the same? In fact the genius from the Kayuya Clan was doing the same thing....just like the sharingan?

It was probably because he moved so fast he couldnt move...the only thing that was predicted was probably the pain or the sudden "i-have-been-sent-flying-what-the-hell-i-didn't-see-it". Same as when Kakashi stabbed Kakuzu and got kicked all of a sudden.

Unless....unless the Sharingan only works when you are looking at the targets.
But then again...Sasuke is moving through Tobi the entire time and he couldn't predict, read nor copy it..

[D10]

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

So you are saying that Sasuke couldn't read his moves because they were unpredictable? So basically that would make Lee's drunken style the same? In fact the genius from the Kayuya Clan was doing the same thing....just like the sharingan?

It was probably because he moved so fast he couldnt move...the only thing that was predicted was probably the pain or the sudden "i-have-been-sent-flying-what-the-hell-i-didn't-see-it". Same as when Kakashi stabbed Kakuzu and got kicked all of a sudden.

Unless....unless the Sharingan only works when you are looking at the targets.
But then again...Sasuke is moving through Tobi the entire time and he couldn't predict, read nor copy it..

That's about right... Why do you think Sasuke got "killed" by Killer Bee twice. It's only cause Jugo and Karin gave him chakra that he's still breathing..

Killer Bee without the Demon Cloak was unpredictable, You can see it in Chapter 411. Killer Bee slashes Sasuke(He would have died if not for Karin), Deflects almost all of his attacks, Sasuke kicked him and He made a rhyme and was unharmed. He wasn't fast when he was normal, His speed increased with the Demon Cloak.

[Hunter]

Killer Bee is one of the fastest, if not the fastest, character on the show up to this point but there is nothing that makes him unpredictable to the Sharingan, he was just amazingly fast. Speed which by itself wasn't enough to bypass Sasuke's prediction ability and speed by the way, which is why Sasuke could dodge him in tailed mode and block with his sword most of KillerBee's attacks even before he activated his Sharingan.
Sasuke almost died twice for the same reason : he assumed his attacks couldn't be blocked which let him open for a counter attack. The first time when he thought his Chidori katana couldn't be stopped... Until Killer Bee used the same kind of attack to do precisely just that and the 2nd when he thought his MS Genjutsu couldn't possibly be broken... Before the Hachibi did it for his host.

He was too confident into his own abilities and he almost got himself killed for that. We will see if he learned something from this fight now that he fight the Raikage.

Originally Posted by james0246

^Well, it's not like Karin says that Sasuke's chakra has "grown larger" or something along those lines which would indicate that Sasuke is tapping into an unknown power.

Larger no but stronger yes. I think it refers to the fact Uchiha were said to have particulary strong chakra though Kishimoto never really went into what it meant.

[Alchemist007]

lol scenario: Raikage kills Sasuke,
Naruto: "Did you forgive him?"
RK: *shows decapitated head
Naruto:

[ShadowAssasin]

Originally Posted by LightningZI

Killer Bee without the Demon Cloak was unpredictable, You can see it in Chapter 411.

Actually, it seems more that his attacks were unavoidable as opposed to unpredictable. We should keep in mind that Killerbee was using seven swords at once, so it matters very little what the sharingan can see; if Sasuke was kept busy enough with just one sword (and he actually was, specifally their swords were clenched right before Sasuke was stabbed with four other swords at once), he is pretty much out of options if there are multiple swords coming at him.

Originally Posted by LightningZI

He wasn't fast when he was normal, His speed increased with the Demon Cloak.

How did you come to this conclusion? Just about every opponent Sasuke has faced has commented on how fast he was, and had to adjust to his speed one way or another. Now, not only did Killerbee not comment on Sasuke's speed, but they seemed to be fighting at the same pace in the panels(and honestly, killerbee looked a bit faster); that clearly suggests Killerbee is at least about as fast as Sasuke(give or take); without the bijuu cloak.

Originally Posted by LightningZI

That's about right... Why do you think Sasuke got "killed" by Killer Bee twice. It's only cause Jugo and Karin gave him chakra that he's still breathing.. Killer Bee slashes Sasuke(He would have died if not for Karin), Deflects almost all of his attacks, Sasuke kicked him and He made a rhyme and was unharmed..

Well, this should be expected, all things considered. Specifically, Sasuke was much less experienced than this opponent, and was still injured from his fight against Itachi. Its also funny how the reasoning many members like to use to discredit Sasuke's fight against Deidara are never brought up as a factor in this situation the way they are for that battle(an opponent having perfect counters to another's techniques). Anyway, I really enjoyed this fight because it was relatively realistic. The much older and experienced opponent was the more dominant, and we don't get enough of that in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Hunter

Larger no but stronger yes. I think it refers to the fact Uchiha were said to have particulary strong chakra though Kishimoto never really went into what it meant.

From my understanding, I thought she just mean the chakra was much more evil... Does the official translation say "stronger chakra"?

[Ulquiorra]

In non-Sasuke news, this is a girl right? Fishnet stockings. Skirt. Female eyes. Slender arms and legs. But Kishi has trapped us before.

[Tsuyoshi]

Originally Posted by AuroraFlash

Yes, I was talking about a demon in that case, not about a Kyuubi-like tailed beast monster chakra demon, rather a demon of his own. It might make him stronger, but not in the sense of an extraordinary chakra. Maybe it influences the MS as Kyuubi describes it as "this chakra more sinister than my own".

I think it was a more symbolic representation of Sasuke falling ever more into the dark path of vengeance more than anything, becoming ever more sinister, and becoming more and more powerful as he does so.

[AuroraFlash]

Originally Posted by Freedan

I think it was a more symbolic representation of Sasuke falling ever more into the dark path of vengeance more than anything, becoming ever more sinister, and becoming more and more powerful as he does so.

Do you know the Hulk? He gets banned into a gladiator world by some super hero scientists because they don't want him on earth anymore. They think he could find a stronger enemy there or at least not get back to earth, but he makes it to the king of the gladiators there and he gets even stronger.

I think Sasuke is similar. He can't be reasoned with anymore. The more pressure he recieves, the more he steps into darkness.

Originally Posted by Hunter

He was too confident into his own abilities and he almost got himself killed for that. We will see if he learned something from this fight now that he fight the Raikage.

Which is sane. Never heared of MS techniques to be dispelled. Besides, using MS made him tire. I remember Itachi when he used the genjutsu on Sasuke. Sasuke attacked him afterwards and it was a good attempt. I don't think Sasuke could react fast enough after being surprised that way and exhausted at the same time.

Originally Posted by Hunter

Larger no but stronger yes. I think it refers to the fact Uchiha were said to have particulary strong chakra though Kishimoto never really went into what it meant.

I think it's about the intensity of the chakra. Orochimaru once said something about "condensed chakra" when he was fighting Naruto 4T and I think even though Uchiha are no chakra monsters like Naruto or Kisame are, they have such an intense chakra that their attacks can simply have a much more powerful level.
Simply said, you can have a loaf of bread of 500g or you can have sword made of steel and it weights 500g.

[Tsuyoshi]

Originally Posted by AuroraFlash

Do you know the Hulk? He gets banned into a gladiator world by some super hero scientists because they don't want him on earth anymore. They think he could find a stronger enemy there or at least not get back to earth, but he makes it to the king of the gladiators there and he gets even stronger.

I think Sasuke is similar. He can't be reasoned with anymore. The more pressure he recieves, the more he steps into darkness.

Well, I know who the Hulk is but I never really followed the Marvel comics. It's the same for any character really. The more pressure they get, the stronger they become and more determined to see things through. Sasuke found strength in the darkness, and with his ultimate enemy practically right in front of him, its natural that he will show much more power than he ever has and sink further into the pit of hatred he willingly dived intio.

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Killer Bee is one of the fastest, if not the fastest, character on the show up to this point but there is nothing that makes him unpredictable to the Sharingan, he was just amazingly fast. Speed which by itself wasn't enough to bypass Sasuke's prediction ability and speed by the way, which is why Sasuke could dodge him in tailed mode and block with his sword most of KillerBee's attacks even before he activated his Sharingan.
Sasuke almost died twice for the same reason : he assumed his attacks couldn't be blocked which let him open for a counter attack. The first time when he thought his Chidori katana couldn't be stopped... Until Killer Bee used the same kind of attack to do precisely just that and the 2nd when he thought his MS Genjutsu couldn't possibly be broken... Before the Hachibi did it for his host.

He was too confident into his own abilities and he almost got himself killed for that. We will see if he learned something from this fight now that he fight the Raikage.

Yep, that's exactly what i was thinking. He (Kishi) showed countly times the power of the Sharingan but he also showed us the weakness several times.
I suppose we can all it the "Rock Lee - simply rocks case" where he explained prediction with own speed and not being able to keep up.

In fact if you ask me...Kishi also showed us the main weakness of the Sharingan.
And that's right....precisely the reason why Minato sealed the Kyuubi inside Naruto.... The Bijuu's chakra. The Sharingan cannot predict it's movements. Which indeed might be the key to defeat the technique of...or Madara.

I also think that Killerbee commented on Sasuke's speed that only he was able to avoid a certain attack so....i suppose that Raikage is similair in speed. And he'll probably be equal to Killerbee (without using his bijuu) it's just that he can't make use of the 8 tails.

[Tsuyoshi]

The Sharingan's greatest weakness is actually the Bunshin. Three times throughout the series where we shown the Sharingan to have been completely fooled by the Bunshin. Itachi did it to Kakashi when he was first introduced, and Kakashi did the exact same thing to Itachi early on in Shippuuden. Deidara also managed to trick Sasuke during their match using one of his clay Bunshins. The fact that Naruto can use Kage Bunshin, capable of even fooling the Byakugan, and that he's become so expert in using them is a great advantage for Naruto, not just Kyuubi's chakra. In fact, I think Kyuubi's chakra would do greater harm than good for naruto when facing Sasuke. Sasuke can suppress Kyuubi to some extent as we've been shown before, and Madara is even capable of utterly controlling Kyuubi. That's why I'm wondering what Itachi gave Naruto to prepare him for a confrontation with Sasuke.

[Sasuke_Bateman]

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

Yep, that's exactly what i was thinking. He (Kishi) showed countly times the power of the Sharingan but he also showed us the weakness several times.
I suppose we can all it the "Rock Lee - simply rocks case" where he explained prediction with own speed and not being able to keep up.

In fact if you ask me...Kishi also showed us the main weakness of the Sharingan.
And that's right....precisely the reason why Minato sealed the Kyuubi inside Naruto.... The Bijuu's chakra. The Sharingan cannot predict it's movements. Which indeed might be the key to defeat the technique of...or Madara.

I also think that Killerbee commented on Sasuke's speed that only he was able to avoid a certain attack so....i suppose that Raikage is similair in speed. And he'll probably be equal to Killerbee (without using his bijuu) it's just that he can't make use of the 8 tails.

You seem to forget that sharingan has a power which can suppress the chakra. Also the sharingan can pretty much predict anything, it depends on the user.

[ragnos007]

Originally Posted by Cub-Sama

Very crucial point you made first bout. That is like saying because I failed at punching somebody in the face 3 years ago then after 3 years of intensive boxing training I cant punch that guy in the face.

Sasuke improved his sharingan's ability to read moves exponetially the only reason he couldn't predict Killer Bee's is because Killer Bee is like Mugen he doesnt have a readible style and just moves about fast and randomly.

If you noticed i wasnt saying it was sasukes eyes that let him down when he fought lee. IT WAS HIS BODY. Sasuke could read Lees moves but he was just too slow to get out of the way of them. Sasuke is a lot faster now but it may be possible that the Raikage could be too fast for him to react. He sure make zetsu shit his pants... if he was wearing any... If Sasuke is too slow to react to Raikages movements it wont matter if he can see it or not.

[darkmaster074]

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

In non-Sasuke news, this is a girl right? Fishnet stockings. Skirt. Female eyes. Slender arms and legs. But Kishi has trapped us before.

wow is this sai

maybe a female


i hate when this happen

[Tsuyoshi]

I always thought that was a guy............

[Cub-Sama]

Originally Posted by AuroraFlash

I think it's about the intensity of the chakra. Orochimaru once said something about "condensed chakra" when he was fighting Naruto 4T and I think even though Uchiha are no chakra monsters like Naruto or Kisame are, they have such an intense chakra that their attacks can simply have a much more powerful level.
Simply said, you can have a loaf of bread of 500g or you can have sword made of steel and it weights 500g.

I choose the bread, you cant make buttered toast with a sword

I don't think it is the intesity because if the chakra was that intense to the point of it looks like a giant demon because if it was like that then I think others around him other than Karin would have felt the intesity too. Like when they could feel the intense chakra of Naruto's FRS or when he was going kyuubi mode.