(L+CR) Toji no Miko

[Triple_R]

Episode 21 had some good flashy action, and some good emotionally tense moments... but yeah, I'm also very iffy on their handling of Kanami here.

While I certainly get where Kazu-kun is coming from, my main issue here is something else (but related): the seeming power level inconsistencies in this show have now reached a total fever pitch. Part of me now sees a huge glaring plot hole here. And yes, Kanami is now at the center of it.

Toji no Miko can't make up its mind on just how powerful/"I win" Kanami is. At least, that's how it seems at first glance to me. In some episodes, Kanami merely seems to be the first among close-to-equals (when it comes to the six main heroines), and actually weaker than the most powerful antagonists (anything involving Princess Tagitsu or a part of her). In other episodes, like Episode 21, she seems to be well-above everyone and everything.

Of the two possibilities, I'd rather if Kanami was merely first among equals. Because as is, Kanami runs a serious risk of making the other protagonists seem kinda redundant, which just isn't something I'd want to see.


Toji no Miko's first cour was largely excellent to me. It had wonderful forward momentum, and things seemed pretty well-balanced overall in the first cour. The first cour also had a very nice climatic end overall, in my view.

As for this second cour... I like how it's trying to be bold and creative, and maybe succeeding to some degree, but a certain sense of balance and momentum has been loss for me. The second cour feels much more unpredictable to me than the first cour did, but I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not.

Also, at a personality level, I truly wonder what they were aiming for with Kanami here. Kanami rarely if ever acted so incredibly smug and self-centered before. While it's somewhat understandable that she'd feel that way, it also feels kinda out of nowhere given her characterization before this episode. It also seems kinda weird for Kanami to go from total smug mode to crying profusely over Hiyori. It's certainly possible for the same character to have both emotions/personas, but to switch so rapidly from one to the other feels kinda jarring and whiplashy to me.

If nothing else, we now have quite the cliffhanger! Right now, I feel truly uncertain to Hiyori's ultimate fate.

[Marcus H.]

We still have three episodes to learn more about Kanami, in any case. If there's anything that Toji no Miko hasn't failed to do, it's to provide explanations to plot points that require explanation. Among the things we have yet to learn is the nature of Kanami's dreamworld, and maybe a bit more solid confirmation of the "art of possession" namedropped by Minato.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

That was obvious since Episode 1, when she almost won the National Swordsmanship Tournament if not for Hiyori plotting against Yukari.

This episode made it clear she's a lot stronger than that. A lot more powerful.

Have you forgotten the part with Takirihime and how Kanami gets along with the rest of the girls? Sayaka feels frustrated when seeing Kanami beat her enemies because she invalidates her raison-d'-etre, and Kanami tends to ignore others for the sake of finding stronger enemies. And despite this apparent strength, she still struggles against being outnumbered and the idea of having to fight others outside the spirit of competition.

That's all meaningless. It doesn't affect Kanami's ability to beat however she wants as shown in this episode.

Also, the rest of the show has been quite tense with or without Kanami (see the entire Mokusa part of the story and the Great Disaster of Sagami Bay).

Because until this episode we didn't know Kanami could have beat the bad guy easily any time. Now we know for sure and that renders everything meaningless. Heck, even now that the aradama is finally complete, it doesn't feel she's a threat to Kanami at all. This also renders the other characters redundant like Triple_R said.

[Marcus H.]

Because until this episode we didn't know Kanami could have beat the bad guy easily any time. Now we know for sure and that renders everything meaningless. Heck, even now that the aradama is finally complete, it doesn't feel she's a threat to Kanami at all. This also renders the other characters redundant like Triple_R said.

Different situations occurring in different times meant that it's too difficult to assess powerlevels. (This is also the reason why discussing powerlevels is stupid every time.) Also, Tagitsuhime doesn't pose a threat to Kanami, but how about the civilians that would be caught in another Great Disaster scenario? Sure, Kanami is powerful, but take note that she's still a single Toji out of hundreds of active Toji and millions of civilians versus a Great Aradama that is indestructible and can cause thousands in casualties again.

This is no battle shounen, so I don't think trying to point out that Kanami's strength at the moment is limitless when there are so many other factors to consider. Hell, in the overall scope of things, Yukina is the most powerful because she can hurt the main cast by the sheer power of politics.

Think about this: with Yukina's current standing, she can invalidate Kanami's battle ability by ordering a countrywide surrender of all okatana in service.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Different situations occurring in different times meant that it's too difficult to assess powerlevels.

If you want to rationalize it that way, be my guest. To me, it's pretty freaking obvious she's way too overpowered.

Tagitsuhime doesn't pose a threat to Kanami, but how about the civilians

I don't give a damn about civilians. Kanami's the main protagonist. If the protagonist herself weakens the effectiveness of the conflict, that's a huge storytelling issue I can't overlook. If you can, more power to you. But the point is the show fucked up, big time.

Think about this: with Yukina's current standing, she can invalidate Kanami's battle ability by ordering a countrywide surrender of all okatana in service.

If the main bad guy can't hold a candle to the main hero, the conflict is ruined all the same. Whatever Yukina does won't change this.

[Marina2]

You guys didn't forget about Kanami sword style right?

Swordsmanship Style: Yagyu Shinkage-Ryu (柳生新陰流?) - A swordmanship style learned by future shoguns during the Edo period. The style focuses on "reading the opponent's movements and thoughts and attain victory", and excels in clashing power. A technique that "controls the enemy without using a sword" called "Bladeless Takedown" (無刀取り, Mutou-tori) is also learned by practitioners

Kanami already seen through Hiyori's sword style since a long time ago, Even with evil god power enchantment , Hiyori still use the same style which she already known how to effectively counter it. So the win here is well-explained within the lore and not out of nowhere.

Kanami will usually have trouble with the opponent whom she fight with in the first 1-2 times but after that she will obtain enough information to beat them. This explain why sometime she seems to be weaker than someone but later showed to be able to easily defeat them. Current Kanami, is Kanami who have known about many sword style's ,so she's a lot more powerful than the beginning of the story.

I believe this fact is consistent throughout out the story. She's not OP, anyone who want to defeat her just need to do so in their first fight (but that won't be easy since Kanami is skilled swordsman herself)

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Marina2

You guys didn't forget about Kanami sword style right?

Kanami already seen through Hiyori's sword style since a long time ago.

Kanami already saw the aradama fight multiple times now too though. She even fought her a little too. Next time she'll kick her ass so hard it will be as boring and anticlimactic as her fight with Hiyori this episode.

[Magewolf]

Kanami is going to lose her next fight against the powered up Princess,I am sure.

And heroes are more powerful then villains all the time. Almost any scheming villain has already lost if they get in a direct fight with the good guys, that's why they are schemers.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Magewolf

Kanami is going to lose her next fight against the powered up Princess,I am sure.

I doubt it. It doesn't matter how powerful they are. If she knows their style, they're fucked. The show would have to use some cheap plot device to make her lose, like maybe being too emotionally shocked for what happened to Hiyori and not being able to focus on the fight or something equally cheap. Doesn't matter though. The damage is done.

And heroes are more powerful then villains all the time.

Shitty writing is not rare, sure. It doesn't mean we should welcome it.

[Incest Emblem]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Kanami rarely if ever acted so incredibly smug and self-centered before. While it's somewhat understandable that she'd feel that way, it also feels kinda out of nowhere given her characterization before this episode. It also seems kinda weird for Kanami to go from total smug mode to crying profusely over Hiyori.

Kanami has never acted so smug, which is the point: She is acting that way deliberately to provoke Hiyori into fighting her. She wanted to demonstrate that Hiyori's friends can help contain the aradama, even if she were unable to suppress it. If she were to try the direct approach of talking to Hiyori and trying to convince her, either to have a match or to believe them, no doubt Hiyori's habit of taking on matters herself would cause her to refuse.

What is most out of character is how well Kanami read Hiyori's character rather than how smug she was acting.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Incest Emblem

Kanami has never acted so smug, which is the point: She is acting that way deliberately to provoke Hiyori into fighting her.

I had considered that, but the "dream sequence" with Kanami's mom arguably suggests there's more to it than that. I mean, that dream sequence was very much focused on Kanami as an individual, about her individual strengths and struggles. It certainly didn't strike me as being all about "How do I save Hiyori?". And that dream sequence raised the idea of Kanami being cold and self-centered, and then she ends up acting, well, kinda cold and self-centered. If we're meant to take this as purely an act on Kanami's part, then I'm not sure what to make of that dream sequence.

Also...

If she were to try the direct approach of talking to Hiyori and trying to convince her, either to have a match or to believe them, no doubt Hiyori's habit of taking on matters herself would cause her to refuse.

But Kanami consistently tries a direct approach, and it often works for her, even with Hiyori. I mean, a good chunk of Cour 1 was about Kanami using pretty straightforward verbalized reasoning to persuade Hiyori that Kanami (and later on Ellen and Kaoru) could be a good ally to Hiyori. There was the whole bit about Hiyori wanting Kanami to leave things to Hiyori because Hiyori perceived Kanami's general no-kill policy as a likely hindrance to Hiyori's goals. Kanami overcame that with fairly direct verbal persuasion.

Also, Hiyori has actually been pretty flexible here, to her credit. Heck, Hiyori even promoted the idea of Mai being the leader of their 6-girl team in the last few episodes of Cour 1. Hiyori was hesitant at taking on allies at first, but over time, she became much more accepting of having allies and even promoting roles as important as "group leader" to them. I honestly think it does Hiyori's character a disservice to think she couldn't possibly be persuaded by a direct approach after the excellent character growth we saw Hiyori have in Cour 1.

[Kazu-kun]

Honestly, Hiyori's a much better character than Kanami. She actually got development and changed, and her conflict between her hatred for Yukari and knowing she wasn't to blame was actually well crafted. And see what she gets out of it. They made her job and now she probably got absorbed by the aradama. Way to get the short end of the stick.

[Spica]

Look like some people can't follow Kanami thought process or swordsmanship, try reading sword instructor? explanations for fights.

Here Kanami out skilled her and used a very specific technique, even then it was a very risky gamble. There was a reason she wasn't moving much in the fight.

[Kazu-kun]

Actually, Kanami never moves too much. It's part of her style. It doesn't matter though. She won because she's just that good. That's all there is to it.

[wuhugm]

Wow~ Kanami so strong~ Doesn't need boost and shit~

And Hiyori is dead

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by wuhugm

And Hiyori is dead

I after jobbing this hard it'd probably be best if she stayed dead.

[Rimbo99]

Anyone felt that Kanami may have been more devastated losing her mother than originally thought? I can see her using sword fighting to cope with the loss.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by wuhugm

Wow~ Kanami so strong~ Doesn't need boost and shit~

She could have used that strength when fighting her fangirl.

[Panzercracker]

Kanami is really strong, but she screw up many times.

[vietthai96]

Why peoples like to ranting on Kanami just because she win a fight, the fight with Hiyori have many factor to play. And power level, seriously almost all of Toji have the same level of power except the series established Chidori and Kogarasumaru is two special swords, the matter is who is more skilled, look at Yomi, she inject a "ton" of Noro an increase her physical abilities, but what, she got overwhelmed by skilled Toji like Ellen and Maki. Kanami intentionly lure Hiyori into emotional distress to decrease Hiyori's fighting efficiency, Hiyori already displayed this in her fight against Yukari in ep 12, when Yukari provoke her, Hiyori immediately attack without thinking, she easily lost her temper. Kanami successful lured her because Hiyori short-temper, the mental and physical pressure cause by the Great Aradama(she have a very hard time with one Hime, now she have three Himes), make her easily losing her composure. Kanami on the other hand, already established by the series that she is one of the best Toji in term of fighting skill especially sword skills, possible on par with Yukari when she is not possessed by Tagitsu, not only that she is the smartest when it come to fighting, she goes passively defensive to make Yikari in ep 12 harder to predict future, only counter when needed, and now she did the same to Hiyori. About Hiyori, she is very weak when it come to swordmanship or fighting strategy, she just rely on speedblitzing people, even Mai who got toyed around by Kanami can predict and outclass Hiyori in sword skills.