Magic and Technology of MGLN

[XenahortCharybdis]

Originally Posted by green-link94

Has anyone noticed that everyone's description of the Arc-en-Cie's functions are contradicting each other.

Well, you can't entirely blame them. The description of the Arc-en-ciel (hmmm, I realize the franchise likes the acronym AEC a lot doesn't it?) is that it creates a 100km radius distortion in space time, and that it is exceedingly destructive.

It doesn't say exactly how destructive it is, or how it destroys stuff. What, really, are the effects of a distortion in space time that large on matter? This is not stated in-verse: apparently, as we can see, the effects of such rips in space-time can be vastly different: Precia falls through hers relatively intact (you'd think something of that power should be turning a human body into the Flying Spaghetti Monster split seconds after impact at the least), but when hit by another the Embodiment of Darkness is utterly obliterated.

What I'm saying is that there's no available, comprehensive, consistent in-verse unified theory on The Effects of Warping the Space-Time Continuum, so I guess people are quite free to make up whatever they want so long as it's not too out there. Therefore it isn't really surprising that some of the theories individuals here have can be completely contradictory.

It would be erroneous only if the in-verse explanation is any better, but well, it isn't.

[krisslanza]

Precia fell into "imaginary space", I don't think that's quite the same as AEC which distorts time-space itself.

We're not sure exactly WHAT the Arc does, but given it basically rips space-time a new one, it's probably nothing pleasant.

[Tiresias]

I prefer to believe that the Arc generates a magically controlled (read: doesn't expand beyond 200km) dimensional cataclysm.

[Sunder the Gold]

Fun fact: Cataclysm literally means "falling water". Since the word was coined to refer to the Deluge; the Biblical first rain and great flood which destroyed the world.

[XenahortCharybdis]

Originally Posted by krisslanza

Precia fell into "imaginary space", I don't think that's quite the same as AEC which distorts time-space itself.

We're not sure exactly WHAT the Arc does, but given it basically rips space-time a new one, it's probably nothing pleasant.

You'll forgive me for this, but the fact that you call it 'imaginary space' just tells me we know even less about what the bollocks it was that she just fell into.

Admittedly I didn't make the best analogy, but in any case my main point was that there's no real unified theory on the various effects of space-time distortions (although yes, most likely the AEC is a nastier variation since it's a weapon, so I would hardly imagine it sending you to Paradise Island), and as such...as such, yeah, actually you can just call any space-time rip space 'imaginary space' because it basically does whatever the hell you imagine it would.

Yes, even trapping you in the rock-hard glucose of Sugar Candy Mountain while rainbow-colored unicorns with bat wings dance in the light of three red moons and sing the leitmotif of 'Roots Bloody Roots'.

[Sunder the Gold]

I always guessed that Imaginary Space is a place where spatial coordinates are counted in Imaginary Numbers.

Imaginary Numbers being numbers that are theoretically possible, but practically nonexistent. That is, slapping a "-" on something that can't be negative, or square-rooting something that can't be square-rooted.

Oh, here's an easier one: Divide By Zero. You can imagine the equation of diving a number by zero, but the equation can't actually work according to the laws of the universe.

Imaginary Space is the DIMENSION of Divide By Zero.

[krisslanza]

Originally Posted by XenahortCharybdis

You'll forgive me for this, but the fact that you call it 'imaginary space' just tells me we know even less about what the bollocks it was that she just fell into.

Admittedly I didn't make the best analogy, but in any case my main point was that there's no real unified theory on the various effects of space-time distortions (although yes, most likely the AEC is a nastier variation since it's a weapon, so I would hardly imagine it sending you to Paradise Island), and as such...as such, yeah, actually you can just call any space-time rip space 'imaginary space' because it basically does whatever the hell you imagine it would.

Yes, even trapping you in the rock-hard glucose of Sugar Candy Mountain while rainbow-colored unicorns with bat wings dance in the light of three red moons and sing the leitmotif of 'Roots Bloody Roots'.

I'm only calling it what Chrono called it. Pretty certain he specifically called it "imaginary space". Or maybe it was Yuuno. Been a while. Magic doesn't work in imaginary space, and it apparently exists forever as well... which maybe raises the question of how magic exactly works in the Nanoha setting.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold

Fun fact: Cataclysm literally means "falling water". Since the word was coined to refer to the Deluge; the Biblical first rain and great flood which destroyed the world.

Actually, the word predates that. It's derived from the Greek "kataklysmos" which was used in ancient Greek mythology as well.

Meaning's pretty much the same though. Great mythological deluge.

[Gx Hero]

I find it funny that The TSAB thinks Nanoha Tech and yet authors of Fanfiction seem to forget all the different magics seen in the series.

For instance imagine if there was a tome of Cosplay in which cast transformation magic creating a barrier jacket or something in what ever design was written in the book.

In short magic is more convention in the field. For instance Nanoha would never need to carry multiple weapons,
divine shooter= hand gun
Divine buster = Bazooka
Starlight Breaker= Nuke

Beats carrying multiple heavy weapons that can run out of ammo. Especially in a pinch. as a bonus it probably saves a lot of money and resources from constructing the ammo.

Also wouldn't the cartridge system be a military used only since it could be dangerous if normal people used them. Same goes for those few allowed to use regular hand guns.

Again forgive me for rambling

[Keroko]

The main argument from the other side is that magic is limited by birth. Weapons are not. The secondary argument is that nothing stops Nanoha from carrying a gun as a side-arm.

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by Gx Hero

I find it funny that The TSAB thinks Nanoha Tech and yet authors of Fanfiction seem to forget all the different magics seen in the series.

No thanks to a certain doujin called BetrayerS, there is a widespread misconception that barrier-jackets can't handle small arms - which is hilariously dumb on many levels - fueling the sentiment that mages are weak against guns.

Beats carrying multiple heavy weapons that can run out of ammo. Especially in a pinch. as a bonus it probably saves a lot of money and resources from constructing the ammo.

Not to mention a simpler logistic set-up. Instead of missiles and bullets and stuff you only need food. And unless the Bureau for some reason goes into total war, they will always prefer mages for their combatants since magical attacks can be set to stun - in Real Life, civilian casualties is such a PR nightmare that many first world military are spending billions on less-than-lethal weapons.

Also wouldn't the cartridge system be a military used only since it could be dangerous if normal people used them. Same goes for those few allowed to use regular hand guns.

Is there canon instances of non-military use of magical cartridges?

[Gx Hero]

Yes I dislike BetrayerS and also the misconception. Granted that a hand gun is more lethal, but Magic is more convenient , true that it is decided by birth and skill of any one person, but advantage is not everyone is carrying a hand gun on them at all times where someone with malevolent intent may have one. Of course this is true the other way around, but as most mages are C and D class mages there is less likely to be serious injuries during an incident, more time for response by officers of the law. And now even children can carry around a device that might have say auto guard.

Magic is a double edged sword for society that is more convenient for regular civilians not the military.

Any way I like the series Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha because it actualy blends Magic and technology, instead of medevil where magic is everywhere, or modern day where you have to hide it.

Still I find that DOujin, and Fanfiction writers forget about what magic can be done especially from what has been done in the show already.

[MeisterBabylon]

Magic's sole weakness is when the villains find some anti-magic phlebotium. Anti-tech phlebotium just doesn't exist in Nanoha world, they have to follow the rules.

That alone explains why the TSAB still employs people with conventional arms. And shows that magic in Nanoha isn't really magic, but rather technology running on a power source that comes from the wielder rather than from somewhere else.

Like if the Force could be used to drive machinery, as a terrible example.

So, there's another misconception here: All of Nanoha is just one form of technology fighting another form of technology. Magic vs Science has had very little to do with Nanoha, Negima and Toaru didn't help either.

[Akiyoshi]

Magic in the Nanohaverse is a bit less ctude than you put it. It's not only a powersource but also the medium. It requires as much knowledge as conviction and compromise to offer results. Sufficiently powerfull or wise mages can manipulate magic to perform sorcery or make construcs with minimal or even no help from a device at all (Yuuno even make handsigns and chant arias to conjure spells).

It was in FORCE when magic got reduced to what you're mentioning ...a simple form of energy no different than the fuel used to power a machine. AEC technology can't manipulate or bend magic it just uses it as fuel transformed into raw energy to power it's systems.

Vivid is going a step forward and showing us magic that can affect probability used by a self proclaimed "witch". As also inherited magical power and techniques in the hands of successors of Ancient Belkan rulers (Sieglinde and the power of the Black Jeremiah are very misterious).

I like the idea of magic being much mure varied and flexible than usually depicted in the Nanohaverse. Mid-shooter style and Belkan knighthood are just the schools with more screentime which makes sense as they're the two main schools adopted by the military which is where the history focused from StrikerS onwards (funny, A's and S1 had implications both of forms of magic different than the norm but those just passed by).

[Gx Hero]

Force is defenitly diffrent since the ec virus threatens to over turn magic society because infected people are ammune to normal attacks. Nanoha and the others weapons are specialized to deal with the situation

[Kha]

In all honesty, the more holes you poke in magic, the less likely the TSAB is going to be stick to it. Ideals help you be yourself, but they sure as hell don't keep you alive.

If logic holds, then its going to be a show about mages with conventional side-arms. Which of course, WILL BE SO COOL. Nanoha and Raising Heart and hyper mega launcher. <3

In before our main cast keeps drawing the Picard card and gives grand speeches about ideals...

[Gx Hero]

why would she need a mega launcher, the weapon she has in force is plenty powerful.

Now fate casting Starlight breaker that might be something of intrest.

"Nanoha I am going to be freind you"
"Wait what, fate."
"Bardachie, Starlight Breaker."
"Starlight breakkkker"
"Fate, nooo."
"Sir, I don't think it sounds right when I say that attack."
"Your probaly right."

[Akiyoshi]

Nanoha should say something like "i'm going to break you" sometime she uses SLB xD

[Kha]

@GX: The hyper mega launcher is immune to AMF

@Aki: "You merely adopted the Breaker. I was born in it, molded by it."

[Gx Hero]

Not very good at writing fanfiction yet and this was on the fly.