2010-08-07, 20:07 | Link #4341 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Yesterday!
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The only thing that is necessary for a mystery story is that the culprit has a reason, and that we/the detective have enough clues that we can guess said reasons. That's great cause in reality a lot of people do things for not much of a reason. Sometimes due to pure unreasoned insanity. I will never believe that killing others for personal gain is logical. Any reasoning that claims that it is implies that it's okay for someone else to kill you after, and no culprits thinks that. |
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2010-08-07, 21:03 | Link #4342 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Floor eh duh?
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Why the parents would be playing a trick:
I beleive it's actually a trick,inside of a trick. The first trick is o play a ''game'' with ''Erika''. The trick inside that trick is this: Out of all rooms possible in the mansion,how and why for what ever reason did Kyrie fake in KRUASS's room. Obviously the trick inside the trick was that while they were playing the game,Kyrie was supposed to look for clues,gold or what not,or anything at all that can be used to pin him to get the money they want. |
2010-08-07, 21:19 | Link #4343 | |
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"Quickly, me! TO THE SHANNONCAVE!" *jumps into closet* "This is the SHANNONCAVE?" "Look, it's really hard to have an ACTUAL cave around here." "Tch, speak for yourself." "K-K-K-Kinzo-sama!? What are you doing in the SHANNONCAVE?" "I felt like hiding in a closet for no reason! That's just the kind of guy I am!" "Well, I wouldn't put it past him, me." "No, me, I definitely see Kinzo-sama doing exactly that." "Also, I'm dead! Isn't that crazy?" "That's very interesting, Kinzo-sama, thank you for sharing." "It's really crowded in here." "What are you doing here, Gohda?" "Natsuhi makes me sleep here! I just want to be popular! Someone please talk to me." "Sorry, got to go."
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2010-08-07, 21:36 | Link #4344 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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Quote:
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2010-08-07, 22:07 | Link #4346 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Floor eh duh?
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Then they probably didn't agree on which rooms to hide in,or Eva and Kyrie found ways to make Kruass feel like an ass because they usually do,and then Nastuhi would just say don't listen to them,then as arrogant as he is,will just agree to some terms of an agreement,while Natsuhi face palms.
While there is no evidence supporting any of this happened,I'll just keep it in mind. |
2010-08-07, 22:52 | Link #4347 |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Yesterday!
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Arg now I want all the umineko chars to have facepalm sprites.
As for what defines "Kanon" as "Kanon"... or any furniture, I think fundamentally the definition of a name is mostly based on other's perception. It is preferable that Kanon considers himself Kanon but the essential conditions is for others to recognize him as such. There is the concept of liminality where the "border" of a concept becomes debatable (I guess an example is debating over wether or not aquamarine is part of "blue" or not) but ultimately "concepts" are just that, concepts, and their existence relies on other's recognition of them as such. Kanon simply cannot chose to stop being Kanon. He could argue about it, but then he'd have to convince others that he is not Kanon anymore (or others would have to be convinced for a reason or another that he is not Kanon anymore) for him to not be Kanon anymore. |
2010-08-07, 22:54 | Link #4348 |
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Or it would have to be impossible for him to be Kanon. However, merely being thought of as dead would not make being Kanon impossible; all he has to do is show up again. "Kanon" is conceptually constructed by more than one individual, and even if all individuals but Kanon himself agree he's dead, I'm not firmly convinced he has the ability to so declare it.
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2010-08-07, 23:01 | Link #4349 |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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I'm actually unsure why Ryukishi never made any. Besides Natsuhi who frequently talks about her headaches we know that a couple of the mothers also talk about having headaches in some of the episodes. Face palm sprites would express that well.
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2010-08-07, 23:20 | Link #4350 | |
The unlucky one
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hiding
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Quote:
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2010-08-08, 00:16 | Link #4351 | |
Artist
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Yesterday!
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Quote:
Other definitions of death applies only to very specific concept, such as deadline. These cannot apply to a human. However I will counter my own point I guess... There has been thrown around the general idea that, for example, "Sakutarou is dead" for Maria but not for Ange. It's pretty simple to understand if you try to be fair but it did open the door to a lot of speculation about the meaning of death within the umineko universe. (The fair way to understand it is that "Sakutarou is dead for Maria" is a sentence that cannot be broken, you cannot say "Sakutarou is dead" unless you include "for Maria" with it. In the same logic "Kanon is dead for everyone on the island" could be a valid red, that doesn't imply him being necessarily dead, however such a thing was never said) |
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2010-08-08, 00:56 | Link #4352 | |
Kupo
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sleeping
Age: 32
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I've been more on the lines that Battler as the discoverer of the gold might be a possible "escape solution" where the battle no longer becomes necessary. The discovery of the gold cancels out Kinzo's "intended" heir. There's no need to knock out another couple, and with the headship ruled out, just the thought that Kinzo favored half of Kanon/Shannon would be enough for the parents to allow marriage.
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2010-08-08, 00:57 | Link #4353 |
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Actually, the marriages would probably be subject to the approval of the family head.
The family head would be Battler, not any of the parents. At that point, he can order Rosa to marry Gohda and kick Genji in the nuts and totally get away with it. Okay, probably not.
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2010-08-08, 00:58 | Link #4354 | |
Kupo
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sleeping
Age: 32
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Quote:
(just what I need in my head...more crack pairings )
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2010-08-08, 01:05 | Link #4355 |
do you know ベアトリーチェ様?
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 35
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Quick Shkanon-based (sorry) thought on why Kanon rushes over to the mansion, wanders into Battler's guest room, jumps in the closet, then "dies": the Shannon costume was left in that closet and people had started wondering where Shannon was.
Not sure how Kanon justifies his choice of diving out the window to retrieve Shannon from the mansion to everyone, but it might be something like "I don't trust Erika so I'm going to sneak out this way". For whatever reason, Kanon doesn't immediately realize Erika is in the room (not a detective after all), and when he does, he hides in the closet as well. (Perhaps he is also in the process of changing into said costume and currently naked. And actually a girl.) The scene in the closet reveals the truth about Kanon, which denies his existence. |
2010-08-08, 01:06 | Link #4356 |
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Wouldn't they immediately get suspicious when they're herding everyone into the rooms? There can only be one of either Shannon or Kanon present, and if s/he doesn't tell everyone right out that the other one doesn't really exist, they ought to already be wondering where the other one went.
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2010-08-08, 01:10 | Link #4358 | |
do you know ベアトリーチェ様?
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 35
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Quote:
I mean, if you want to say the scene where Kanon vanishes from the room is him confessing when pressed about this problem, that works too. (Probably better, in fact.) Magical things |
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2010-08-08, 01:40 | Link #4359 |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
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Bah I'm going to regret saying this, probably... but you actually found the only way that Kanon can sorta do that. (Mind you, Shannon couldn't, unless Shkanon is true and is really a male)
Kanon is a man. By showing he really is a girl, he somewhat proves that he doesn't really exist (in a Shkanon idea). That still prevents him from being dead. |
2010-08-08, 01:43 | Link #4360 |
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Why is that so? Kanon could be a girl even without Shkanon. Suddenly revealing you're a different gender changes people's understanding of Kanon, but doesn't destroy him, except in the sense it destroys "him."
Certainly not confidently enough to rise to the level of death, other than for certain bits of him.
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