Clannad ~After Story~ - Episode 22 Discussion / Poll [END]

[dgreater1]

My view at what's happening right now...

Teacher (Anime Studio): I have an assignment for every. I hope it wouldn't be difficult.
Students (Viewers): Sure!
Teacher: Ok, dismiss!
The next day...
Student1: Heh, that assignment is pretty easy.
Student2: Yup, no sweat at all. The code she wants us to make is so simple.
Student3: I'm sure a lot of us got the correct answer.
Teacher: Ok, let me have your assignments!
The students gives their assignment one by one.
Teacher: Wow! Almost everyone of you got the answer. Was it too easy?
Student1: No sweat at all! Don't you have anything harder than that?
Teacher: Hmmm... okay, do this one next. I'm sure this will be harder.
Student2: Don't worry, we can answer it.
Teacher: All right, dismiss!
The next day...
Student3: Whew! That assignment was frigging hard! Though I managed create my own code, I'm not sure if our teacher will accept it.
Student2: Heh... actually, I needed to ask for someone's help in order to make a code.
Student1: Frigging hard! I still don't know how to code it!
Student2: I'll teach you.
Student1: Hah... the code is hard to understand! Don't you have any simpler one?
Student2: There are various code you could make but the one I asked said this was the one best code he knows.
Student3: Let me see your answer. Wow! We almost have the same code, just a bit different here and there.
Student1: Damn it! I'm frustrated now!
Student4: You're not the only one!
Student5: Here's the simplest solution I have.
Student1: Wow! Thanks, this one makes more sense!
Student4: This one makes more sense but I hate using that kind of code!
Student3: How about reviewing my code?
Student4: Gah! That's even harder to understand! Damn! I hate this assignment!
Student1: Hah... I don't know, it's too hard that I can't decide anymore.
Teacher: Okay guys! I'm here! Give me your assignments!
The teacher browses each and everyone's assignments.
Teacher: Wow! I didn't think a lot of you would answer correctly. Specially you Student2, that's the simplest code, you really understood it.
Teacher: Student3's code is accepted as well.
Teacher: Student1... you almost have it but this line will definitely change the output.
Student1: I see... I'll recode that line.
Teacher: Student4, your declarations are all wrong.
Student3: It's wrong throughout the beginning?
Student5: Damn! I hate this, I got everything from the start except the end. This is stupid.
Student4: At least you got something, as for me, I got nothing! Damn, I really hate this.
Student3: I can smell their rage emitting through their body.
Student2: True, although, you have to admit, she really gave us a hard one.
Student3: Yup, but although it was hard, I really liked it.
Student2: Same here.
Student1: I can't say, took a lot of brain power for me.
Student2: Well, I guess not everything she'll give us is easy to chew.
Student4: I hope we don't get this pile of crap anymore.
Student5: Damn... how did I fail that part, I hate this.
Student6: Well, I understood and answered everything correctly but I don't want this kind of crappy assignment.
Student3: You want something harder?
Student6: Nope, I just don't want this kind crappy assignment.
Student2: Did you really answer everything correctly?
Student6: Yup, here look! But like I said, I don't like this crappy assignment.
Student3: Okay, sure. Suit yourself.

I'm just letting the alcohol off a little...

forgot to add, this applies to almost every shows.

[Proto]

They are merely saying that it didn't work from a narrative standpoint, which I completely agree with.

The argument has gone forth and back many times already, and at least from a statistical point of view it'd seem that most people agree that it did worked within the premises that the CLANNAD universe had established.
statistics(tm): your best low calory substitute for real science since the 18th century
But yeah, given that we cannot reach a common ground the easiest thing to do is to go by the numbers. The episode has an average 8.75 evaluation. Then it is a 0.875 good ending. The end.

and does not miraculously raise the dead out of the blue and make everyone happy.

boohoo... let's not go over this again

[Ithekro]

From what I get, those that don't care for the ending seem to be "realists", while those that liked the ending "idealists". At least that is the simplification of the arguments I've been seeing that haven't been just a basic misunderstanding of the ending.

[Proto]

I would just simply scale it down to acknowledging or not acknowledging the genre the series sits in, but maybe that's just me

[dgreater1]

Originally Posted by Gebs-

I think you're misunderstanding everyone's arguments here. They aren't saying they didn't understand the ending. They are merely saying that it didn't work from a narrative standpoint, which I completely agree with.

I think you're misunderstanding as well...

Originally Posted by myself

Student6: Well, I understood and answered everything correctly but I don't want this kind of crappy assignment.
Student3: You want something harder?
Student6: Nope, I just don't want this kind crappy assignment.
Student2: Did you really answer everything correctly?
Student6: Yup, here look! But like I said, I don't like this crappy assignment.
Student3: Okay, sure. Suit yourself.

Whether it's good or bad, the answer is in your own judgment. You can say it didn't work from a narrative standpoint but actually, that is just your judgment so expect people to counter your judgment. And like the quote above, there were people who completely understood it but didn't like it.

Some of us were just arguing because it seems some still didn't get one important thing about the story and is still claiming that it is like that when strong arguments were used to say that it is not.

But like proto said and I'm probably thinking the same thing as him, it's all about acknowledging it or not. A lot of people got it and acknowledged it, a lot of people got it but didn't acknowledge it, a lot of people didn't get it so they couldn't acknowledge it and a lot of people didn't get it but they acknowledged it for what it is.

[Justin Kim]

Ok look everyone, you don't need to acknowledge anyone's opinion. You just need to respect it but not argue with them. I am not saying people are fighting with each other regarding the conclusion. I just think that people are over-excessively analyzing the conclusion towards the Clannad series. I think they input that ending just to keep it simple as possible. Whereas, I really don't think the intention was to arouse speculations or arouse hot-fired debates. Watching the ending of the re-cap episodes just pretty much wraps up the conclusion that was seen.

[Ithekro]

Well the recap episode should come out in widescreen within the week, so those that have been waiting will finally see it and perhaps put some of this debate to rest.

(Unless of course they show this rumored Kyou episode first...then it will be yet another week before this debate can rest.)

[DeX-kun]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Well the recap episode should come out in widescreen within the week, so those that have been waiting will finally see it and perhaps put some of this debate to rest.

(Unless of course they show this rumored Kyou episode first...then it will be yet another week before this debate can rest.)

Within' the week? That sounds kind of fast since episodes 22 and 23 still haven't been released in WS yet I hope you're right though.

[Ithekro]

Aren't the WS episodes suppose to be 3 weeks behind the original broadcasts? It that is the case, the recap should be this week, but the rumor suggest that the Kyou episode will air instead of the recap with the recap to follow the following week. I don't know what to make of that really (April 19th according to the Kyou thread, but that should be the 18th in the United States).

Even so I do hope the WS recap will bring some of this round and round to and end...because it does cap things off quite nicely.

[Justin Kim]

Itherko, I just checked animenewsnetwork, and according to the news, in my opinion, I really don't think they will slide in a Kyou After episode / arc. Animenewsnetwork announced that Key would be issuing the Clannad DVDs/Clannad After Story around June which included a bonus episode that showed Kyou's After.

[kyosak]

Originally Posted by Justin Kim

Animenewsnetwork announced that Key would be issuing the Clannad DVDs/Clannad After Story around June which included a bonus episode that showed Kyou's After.

Is this for real?!

[Proto]

I would regard any announcement regarding KyoAni as viral marketing, any show they produce as a fake, every torrent that is released with their name as n April's fool joke until you watch it yourself twice, wait a day and make sure it wasn't a dream.

Is this for real?!

No. Viral marketing.

[kyosak]

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...clude-kyou-arc

I'm going to rage if this is a joke, lol...

DON'T DO THIS TO ME KYOANI

[Tak]

Originally Posted by kyosak

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...clude-kyou-arc

I'm going to rage if this is a joke, lol...

DON'T DO THIS TO ME KYOANI

If it ended up as being a joke, just let me know, and I will lend you anything from my carefully stockpiled arsenal.

- Tak

[DeX-kun]

Originally Posted by Tak

If it ended up as being a joke, just let me know, and I will lend you anything from my carefully stockpiled arsenal.

- Tak

Save me the biggest weapon you have because although I'm not a Kyou fan, I still want to see that arc >_< What I liked most about this series is that all the girls were likable, at least in my opinion

[Leo_Otaku]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

I just have one question with regard to the continued debate over the ending and that is simply:

How (if at all) did Clannad's theme of family really benefit from anything that happened beyond episode 20?

Also just wanted to point out in anime version, it appears that Tomoya remembers what happened before the return. Seen in the re-cap.

[andiyar]

Having finally seen the ending of Clannad ~After Story~ (watching widescreen only) I do have a few brief comments, on this episode.

Firstly, the moment chiisana tenohira finished, I paused MPlayer, and asked the world in general what had just happened. Did the 'Town' or 'God' if you prefer really just go, 'hey, you know what, all that suffering and reconciliation and really good drama that's been happening? Screw it. Reset button FTW!'?

Secondly, I have never, ever liked Fuko. In the first season, I could not wait for her arc to be over; I specifically stopped watching until there was one episode after her arc so I could marathon it and get the taste of her absolute irritation out of my mouth. The last five minutes of this episode brought that back, and I came within a whisker of simply skipping the entire damn thing. I don't care if it was source material - it broke the episode's pace, it irritated the living entertainment out of me, and made the ending of Clannad as a whole much less enjoyable.

Those points said, the magical reset and then the Fuko together took Clannad and dragged the ending down to a level of 'oh well, you know, rewards and dreams come true and such'. The story would have been much more powerful if it'd just continued with Ushio and Tomoya living as a single family; he's already made a start on becoming a father and a good citizen, his world is falling back into place - until the Tragedy, of course, but that is the one thing I would have liked resolved... or I could have gone with a Naturalist ending where all dies and the world crashes in, sure. I knew that wouldn't happen, at least.

The idea of the lights I had vaguely floating around, as with the Illusionary World, but I thoroughly dislike the way the entire process was shown in the episode. Perhaps it was undoable by any other means, but it felt wrong. Perhaps a simple line, 'everyone deserves a second chance' or something like that, could have made it better. Perhaps, but it's hard to say.

When a show requires me to go and read about the source material to gain proper understanding of what occurred, I'm sorry to say it has failed as proper entertainment. The lack of self-containment might be understandable due to the 'target audience' being game players, but as a non-game player and someone who was piecing the show together from the show alone (I specifically didn't contribute to this forum this season, due to spoilers both last season and from Air's forum during 2005), the standalone information just isn't there - not for a show released episodically like this, with way too many things brushed under the carpet as 'hey look! no, don't worry, oh wait look again!'.

Clannad was a beautiful experience and I thoroughly enjoyed it (apart from anything with Fuko!). I just wish they could have given it an ending that fit with the actual anime material, rather than pandering to the True End denominator for the game fans.

Episode? 7/10. Series? 9.5/10.

A Quick Edit - Yes, I will say here that the ending makes sense within the limits of the Clannad universe, and reading around the material. I will however also say that this sense does not come through properly in the way it is presented, with the anime as the sole material.


-Andiyar

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by andiyar

I just wish they could have given it an ending that fit with the actual anime material, rather than pandering to the True End denominator for the game fans.

This might have been the wrong thing to say, but we'll see with the comments that follow mine.

Although I love the true ending, I do agree with you in some ways though. Not enough setup.

KyoAni really should stop trying to turn route-based games into linear stories...

[Justin Kim]

I don't think it's a joke. Considering we do have multiple Arc's in Clannad. Anyhow some of you need to pay attention to the previous posts >_>, I think we mentioned the possibility of Key relasing another Arc called Kyou After. I think I mentioned the animenewsnetwork part, unless someone else did O_o.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Justin Kim

I don't think it's a joke. Considering we do have multiple Arc's in Clannad. Anyhow some of you need to pay attention to the previous posts >_>, I think we mentioned the possibility of Key relasing another Arc called Kyou After. I think I mentioned the animenewsnetwork part, unless someone else did O_o.

Okay. Uh. What?

Clannad was originally a route-based game. (Do you know what that is?)

In adapting it into an anime, KyoAni decided to try to turn the mutually exclusive routes into separate arcs by removing the romantic aspect from most of them. This is all fine and dandy, but the fact that the routes are mutually exclusive is an important part of the game's overall plot, in that the routes are, in fact, separate universes.

Discounting the Tomoyo and Kyou OVAs, the Clannad anime is set in one universe.

I think this is the problem with the adaptation here. Of course, another problem is that the True Ending feels more like a reward to the game player whereas in the anime it feels like a contrived Deus Ex. But whatever.


On a side, off-topic note, the problem I foresee for KyoAni's inevitable adaptation of Little Busters is that, frankly, Little Busters really doesn't work as a linear story for various spoilerific reasons, but they'll probably try to do it anyway. Sigh.