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View Poll Results: Fate/Zero - Episode 24 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 62 | 48.82% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 36 | 28.35% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 14 | 11.02% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 4 | 3.15% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 3 | 2.36% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 3 | 2.36% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 3 | 2.36% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 2 | 1.57% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 127. You may not vote on this poll |
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2012-06-17, 11:20 | Link #161 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
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The battle between Saber and Berserker did not deserve its own episode. Splitting it off into its own episode would affect the pacing considerably, simply because there isn't enough content to warrant it. Here are the options:
- Not include Kirei vs Kiritsugu in that episode, and have the episode be purely about Berserker and Saber (with backstory padding out most of the episode). At this point in the story though, Kiritsugu is already in the same building as Kirei is. Delaying the confrontation any further negates the tension of that battle, simply because they should be fighting already. It'll be even worse than the Rin episode, as the Rin episode wasn't injected in a tense situation where plot-critical things are occurring. It should not take two episodes after Kiritsugu receives the message to actually get to Kirei. - Include Kirei vs Kiritsugu in that episode. Then you have two problems: If the fight is as long as it is now, then it definitely won't be the main focal point of the episode simply due to how short it actually is. Everything in the series had been leading up to this battle, and if it's treated as an afterthought it'd be a worse crime than excluding the Saber vs Berserker battle. However, this battle was never supposed to be long either, so artificially extending it somehow would end up simply messing up the pacing of that battle. - Include Kirei vs Kiritsugu and Kiritsugu's conversation with the Grail. At this point, one wonders just how much of the Saber vs Berserker battle can fit in here. This is probably the only option that's acceptable, simply because it gives proper focus to what the story deems important. On the other hand, by cutting off here there's no tension leading up to the final episode. There's no urgency as all of the conflicts in this episode had been resolved. Ending it with Saber being commanded to destroy the Grail introduces one final conflict that demands resolution, thus increasing the tension. In the end, I'd think that what they did here is the best option. Just because a show is aired on television doesn't mean the show necessarily has to plan around television limitations. When the timeslot removes the show from the schedule, the only way that people will be able to watch is through the distributed version (ie: the blu-ray version) anyway. It's better to plan around that and edit later, rather than to plan with that in mind and make suboptimal choices that will remain in the distributed version. |
2012-06-17, 12:00 | Link #164 |
Les Pays Bass
Join Date: Jun 2011
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Okay. Thanks for the clarification, MrT. I don't feel as bad anymore.
Thinking back on it, I knew what it was, but it seems as though I got emotionally and mentally lost at that scene in the bedroom. That in turn yielded my post up there. |
2012-06-17, 12:07 | Link #165 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
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And if you feel that wouldn't leave enough time for episode 25's content, well, they should have planned for 26 episodes then, or - even better - not wasted time on pointless and incongruous filler material for background characters like loli Rin. Irisviel was killed by Kirei in episode 22, so no, it wasn't her. That was, at best, her personality heavily corrupted by all the evils in the world. |
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2012-06-17, 12:25 | Link #167 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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If the first episode in the second season was double length, then this is technically a 26 episode series, just episode 14 and 15 were shown together as one episode. And they shifted the numbering since then.
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Last edited by Ithekro; 2012-06-17 at 12:36. |
2012-06-17, 12:38 | Link #169 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Um, it was the first season's first episode that was double length, but that is beside the point. It doesn't matter whether the extra episode would have been episode 26 or 27, so much as it existing could have made doing Saber vs Berserker justice possible.
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2012-06-17, 13:58 | Link #170 |
Guess what time it is?
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Age: 38
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Meanwhile, at ufotable...
"Hmmm... We seem to have run out of lithe, passively sympathetic mothers to strangle to death." "What?? We still have two episodes left! Bring one back for an encore." I am more pleased with Fate/Zero by orders of magnitude now than I was around the beginning of the second half. There really is some good conflict here, and the action is portrayed so much better in the two major fights here than it has been. They've wisely transitioned from "expensive-looking" to "slick" and it's made all the difference. Episode 16 really was the turning point. The series hinges on buying into Kiritsugu as a character, and prior to his tense exchange with Saber, I couldn't find a foothold anywhere. He was important because everyone kept (loudly) declaring that he was important, and that was about it. Back to 24, I was hoping we'd get a little bit more time with Kotomine and Gil, but it really was time to start wrapping things up. Archer is just a beast power-wise, even if it is out of necessity, the arc of his character having already been written. There's not much more they can do with Saber for now either, so it looks like we're steaming towards the conclusion of Kiritsugu's story. |
2012-06-17, 17:04 | Link #172 |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
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I think the Berserker vs Saber fight was all right. It began in the last episode, and Kirei and Kiritsugu deserved the attention. Though it would've been nice to at least get some backflash scenes from Lancelot's time as Saber's right hand. But then again that story has been known for a long time.
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2012-06-17, 17:54 | Link #173 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
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If you simply think about it, even if you think that episode 10 didn't need to be there, what would change even if episode 10 didn't exist? The only thing that would change is that the Kariya scene at the end of episode 10 would need to be put somewhere else instead, screwing over the pacing for the other episodes. Episode 11 is entirely standalone specifically because episode 10 exists, so your complaint about wasting time with background characters is entirely meaningless as that time is spent in its own standalone episode. Additionally, Fate/Zero's episode count was not determined by any factor other than the pacing of the story. There was no broadcast restriction or producer requirement that dictated that Fate/Zero must be 25 episodes long or else. It's only 25 episodes because the staff believed that it could done in 25 episodes. Like I keep saying, the amount of content cut in these episodes are not enough to warrant its own episode. Attempting to do so anyway would require padding to a significant degree, to the point where the pacing for the entire finale gets bogged down, instead of merely limiting the damage to one television broadcast episode. It's fine for Rin's episode since it's supposed to be breather between episode 9 and episode 11, but that won't work when you're supposed to be accelerating towards the climax of the series. |
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2012-06-17, 20:08 | Link #175 | |||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
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If they had no problem rushing through freaking Arthur vs Lancelot, why would other scenes like Kariya's in episode 10 be so damn untouchable that they would warrant an entire episode of padding just to be told properly? That makes no sense, especially when the scenes that were skipped here were clearly more important than most of the ones that came before. The content speaks for itself and it is what the development team should take into consideration when deciding which scenes should be adapted in great detail and which scenes they can afford to sacrifice or gloss over for the big picture. And obviously Arthur vs Lancelot belongs to the former category, while loli Rin going around playing mahou shoujo and saving the day certainly belongs to the latter. Quote:
Shows like Ghost in the Shell or Cowboy Bebop have standalone episodes; the main and overarching plot is only developed in certain episodes, whereas the rest are self-contained stories that can stand on their own. Fate/Zero, however, doesn't, since the entirety of the show consists of one overarching plot - the 4th Holy Grail War. By suggesting episode 11 is a standalone episode, you are implying one does not need prior viewing of any other episode to follow it, which obviously isn't the the case. Quote:
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And, for the record, there wasn't even a need for a breather episode between episode 9 and 11. 9 was pretty chill and devoid of battle already, and the only reason the Rin episode even exists is because prepubescent little girls in revealing stockings sell. |
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2012-06-17, 20:32 | Link #176 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Kariya's death was quite the anti-climax. And Iri's death faked me out because she had the Grail scene afterwards. I guess she "died" when the Grail copied her personality.
I thought the Arthur-Lancelot part was fine for anime-only. They showed a revelation and its impact. It boiled down to, "Saber found out one of her loyal knights hated her enough to be that Berserker." I'm sure the LN has a lot more. But that's true of a lot of scenes because we don't get narration and internal monologue. |
2012-06-17, 21:09 | Link #178 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Quote:
Not only do I feel as if the lack of a proper Saber vs Berserker fight was a major loss in of itself, it also lessened the impact of Saber's state of mind during her confrontation with Archer. Regardless of what actually went on in her duel with Lancelot, it's obvious she was driven to despair by the whole thing, thus becoming more desperate than ever to get her hands on the Holy Grail (likely because Lancelot's state further illustrated and drove home how tragic the end result of her reign and ideals was). So, when she finally sees the Grail within her grasp, only for Gilgamesh of all people to stand in her way, surely she is filled with the utmost rage and frustration, on top of the already very emotionally draining fight she had with Berserker. That's when Saber's eyes were apparently supposed to become golden out of anger, which would have been a nice touch, but even more important than that is what comes afterwards, which I feel could have been better conveyed in the anime version: she actually hopes that Kiritsugu will use a Command Spell in order to give her an advantage against Archer. In other words, she forgets her chivalrous code of honor and resorts to the foul play she'd always resented in other heroes like Berserker and Caster. She essentially becomes what she hates, all for the sake of finally getting her hands on the Grail. That's how desperate she is and how badly she needs it (and obviously witnessing Lancelot's miserable state went a long way in making her like that). It is a major moment for Saber's character, and one which would likely go a long way in making her character more appealing to those who generally find her dull and predictable. Yet without a proper duel with Lancelot, and perhaps a few inner monologues during the final scene, the full weight of it isn't properly conveyed, and her character, who is supposed to be this "face" of the Fate franchise, really suffers as a result. It's a shame, which is why I really hope the BDs will try and rectify those blunders. |
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2012-06-17, 21:14 | Link #180 |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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Honestly if it was simply the monologue and speech that was cut out (Things I've heard cut out since I haven't read the LN), it wouldn't have bothered me so much, but the editing here was simply not good.
We transitioned from the fight scene of kiritsugu and kirie to Saber all of sudden stabbing berserker, without any build up or the like to the event. The last time we saw Saber on screen she was struggling massively emotionally and was being pushed to the brink and getting knocked around. HOW THE HELL DID WE GET HERE? Also suddenly we saw Kariya was all of a sudden just dead and falls over, no final thoughts or parting words. Ryousuke got a better send off than he did, and he's been a much more major character! I mean c'mon now. This simply does not serve. I don't know how Ufotable could've paced this series better in the end (It is hard to fit it into TV), but the TV series is not the full experience and I think anyone who is going to relegate themselves to just the TV series is most likely going to miss out if they don't check out the finished product. It's still disappointing that the loli rin episode did in fact affect this show in the end because I would've gladly cut 10 minutes from that for this episode.
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