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Old 2012-06-07, 15:29   Link #9221
kingstonbeer
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Well with the power levels/abilities as they are at the moment does anyone, other than me, half expects Medaka Box to end after this arc?

Throwing out the question because of the power level to threat issue is why i ask.
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Old 2012-06-07, 15:43   Link #9222
SoloPanda
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Originally Posted by kingstonbeer View Post
Well with the power levels/abilities as they are at the moment does anyone, other than me, half expects Medaka Box to end after this arc?

Throwing out the question because of the power level to threat issue is why i ask.
I'm not guessing anymore, every time i think it's over the author says " HAHA fooled you!!" and starts a new arc with stronger enemies and everyone starts to power up and people still call Zenkichi normal as he's levitates above the world and destroys Alaska.... ok that never happend :/
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Old 2012-06-07, 16:54   Link #9223
kingstonbeer
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Yeah i guess you're right logic went out the window a long time ago i guess
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Old 2012-06-07, 21:36   Link #9224
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It it coming out today or tomorrow?
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Old 2012-06-07, 22:22   Link #9225
Randrak42
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Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post
It it coming out today or tomorrow?
Patience my friend...because it's already out

Spoiler for Wafffuuuuu:

Last edited by Randrak42; 2012-06-07 at 22:38.
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Old 2012-06-07, 22:50   Link #9226
Wolfenstein
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This chapter very good. I'm hooked on Emukae. I also feel so sorry for her, wish she'd get on with Zenkichi instead of Medaka.

Actually, I wished Zenkichi preferred other girls than Medaka. Sadly dosen't seem my dream is ever coming true.
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Old 2012-06-07, 22:54   Link #9227
Randrak42
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Yea sadly Zen seems to only have eyes for Medaka, despite having a large potential harem behind him. Well...that's what we have Fanfics for!

Also, gotta say that I'm LOVING the hostages' interactions with eachother and the group.
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Old 2012-06-07, 22:55   Link #9228
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Zenkichi smelled her, this is clearly the one true pairing.
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Old 2012-06-07, 23:02   Link #9229
Randrak42
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Zenkichi smelled her, this is clearly the one true pairing.
This is clearly creepy and a very Yandere worthy line actually xD
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Old 2012-06-08, 00:05   Link #9230
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Still a good character study for Emukae. Apparently she feels that because she is a Minus her words to Zenkichi('Above all else is love') is something she can only cheer him on, projecting that he'll never love her, as he loves Medaka(she's partially right, damn It Nishio :<) while she genuinely loves him as well. Though, by the end of the chapter, she seems to gain some confidence against that.
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Old 2012-06-08, 01:04   Link #9231
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Originally Posted by kingstonbeer View Post
Well with the power levels/abilities as they are at the moment does anyone, other than me, half expects Medaka Box to end after this arc?

Throwing out the question because of the power level to threat issue is why i ask.
I don't think Nisio is coming to a conclusion. While there are some who think Nisio is already out of material and everything he does is irrelevant stretching; that is just nonsense. So far everything has been connected in some way from the very first chapter—admittedly, not in an as obvious manner as most manga. As for Ajimu, she was first shown as a bloody corpse lying in front of Kumagawa in chapter 20. She has been around—with and without limited power—for quite a while. Sure, on paper, Ajimu is not just godly, she is a god that existed even before the universe and someone who can easily create a new world and populate it with life (Baby Planet). However, Ajimu has enormous psychological flaws that Nisio has been exploiting to make her a good villain and now an ally of sorts. She is whimsical enough to just fall down and claim she can't continue anymore while snickering after all. As long as anything Nisio does is in character—I never saw any Nisio character go out of character unless it was on purpose—and is explained sensibly, I see no reason for Ajimu to be a plot-stopper.

Plus, Ajimu isn't the only one of her class. She claimed Hanten —a man with nothing to wish for from life besides a drink bar?— to be her equal. If the fact that they were gods was enough to stop the manga, everything would already be over.

Also, Medaka can't lose, ever. Especially not in a fight. Even in the election, it was her that won—she won her freedom in a way. When you have a protagonist you admitted will never lose simply because she is the protagonist and used her gloriously for nearly 150 chapters, I think having a god or two won't stop you from coming up with compelling plot-lines and characters.

The logic and common sense of our reality never existed in the world of Medaka Box from the beginning.
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Old 2012-06-08, 01:24   Link #9232
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Also, Medaka can't lose, ever. Especially not in a fight. Even in the election, it was her that won—she won her freedom in a way. When you have a protagonist you admitted will never lose simply because she is the protagonist and used her gloriously for nearly 150 chapters, I think having a god or two won't stop you from coming up with compelling plot-lines and characters
What are you talking about? She outright lost the election against Zenkichi because Devil Style invalidates her protagonist existance since fate can't help her, she admitted her loss. Gaining her freedom wasn't a 'win', in the sense she didn't defeat anyone/anything in a conflict in the first place, which is the sense she was 'unbeatable' in as the main character, until Zenkichi decided to invalidate that existance.

She can lose now. I mean, depending on the range that Devil Style might work in, we don't know if it's only when Zenkichi is around. But given the current manga, which is focusing on people who are not the main character, it seems Devil Style evened the playing field universally.
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Old 2012-06-08, 02:26   Link #9233
Tyabann
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I'm pretty sure that Devil Style no longer exists.
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Old 2012-06-08, 02:34   Link #9234
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
I'm pretty sure that Devil Style no longer exists.
What?

Lolno.

Why? For the simple fact there's nothing to lead us to that fact. In contrast, it's unlikely, given that it would trample completely on several pages of the last arc. I'd go as far as say impossible given the evidence from the manga.
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Old 2012-06-08, 02:47   Link #9235
Tyabann
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Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post
In contrast, it's unlikely, given that it would trample completely on several pages of the last arc. I'd go as far as say impossible given the evidence from the manga.
They're fighting the suitors in order from weakest to strongest... hell, the whole arc is proceeding according to narrative convention. DS was supposed to prevent that.

I think that he's either managed to turn it off, it's been erased, or events are being manipulated to look as though it is no longer having any effect.
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Old 2012-06-08, 03:34   Link #9236
Wolfenstein
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
They're fighting the suitors in order from weakest to strongest
Not according to the current chapter. This suitor took four others to beat and is the closest to Kurokami. I.e the strongest, whom Emukae is about to beat *somehow*. I'd go with her getting a performance boost due to Hitoyoshi love or something.

Sui was not even eliminated to begin with, so she didn't even get her chance to test herself against anyone except Nienami, the weakest. You don't know if she's the second weakest to begin with. Given that Naze took her out, though, that's doubtful, as Naze is probably stronger than Wazinuka and Emukae and definitely stronger than Zenkichi - the weakest.

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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
the whole arc is proceeding according to narrative convention. DS was supposed to prevent that.
Not It's not, the only convention you've mentioned is above, and it's totally bogus. Devil Style is supposed to prevent Fate's whim's, not completely stop a possibility. There's still chances and probabilities in this even ground created by DS, just that no-one's favored in the lottery this time.

Furthermore, DS will only ever give you the illusion of narrative conventions being erased. It's not actually going to happen because Nisio will keep following them in the real world to sell his manga.

Still though, he has shown us the 'diversions' from the conventional main-character Anshin' talked about.

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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
I think that he's either managed to turn it off, it's been erased, or events are being manipulated to look as though it is no longer having any effect.
And you've reached this assumption based on just that?

Just because a possibility is forming? I gotta say that's pretty bad reasoning. Especially when so much more supports the skill staying. Such as with Zenkichi being the absolute weakest in the Student Council and not the strongest, a narrative convention Medaka Box used to follow, but dosen't anymore for some obscure reason(DS).

Or even, the entire last arc, being reduced to nothing because Zenkichi's personal skill is gone? That's what made the whole concept of the skill interesting. It's the right to do what is wrong. A skill where fate has no sway over.

Spoiler:


'Without any Plus and without any Minus. He dosen't have anything. In exchange, there won't be a strange twist of fate. Hitoyoshi has that right, he isn't a Plus or a Minus, but a Zero. My new world's main character'.

Guess whose the main character of Medaka Box nowadays? Zenkichi. Guess who will never have a strange twist of fate? Zenkichi.

I'm sorry, usually I'd give a little wiggle room for argumentation, but this is a point I just see as dead wrong based on absolutely nothing that I frankly thing lesses the enjoyment of the manga by destroying one of the most intersting things of the last arc. There's nothing supporting this notion, at all. Nevermind it trampling on the entire last arc's development of Zenkichi.

Of course, if it is reavealed to be true later, I can only call it bad writting and shrug at the author.

Last edited by Wolfenstein; 2012-06-08 at 03:53.
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Old 2012-06-08, 04:09   Link #9237
Tyabann
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...It's had absolutely no effect on anything since his "win" (if you can call it that) over Medaka.

You'd think that something like his sudden ability to use Mars Mode wouldn't be allowed under Devil Style, as it was ABSOLUTELY an asspull, as was Nienami's oh by the way I was actually the weakest.

Also, I find that Zenkichi is the "weakest" of the Student Council in the same way that Kumagawa is the "weakest"; that is to say, he isn't at all.

That said, I should say though that I find Devil Style uninteresting. A very strict reading of how Ajimu described it would imply that nothing of note would happen to Zenkichi, ever.
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Old 2012-06-08, 04:57   Link #9238
Sol Falling
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lol. Emukae x Zenkichi end incoming? Seriously, Emukae's love been receiving way too much focus recently to not be setting up something.

CxC's translation had Kanaino calling Kugurugi a "word user", although the last page identified her Style as "Disassembly" (/"Deconstruction" lol). Anyone have any idea what in particular was meant by that (Kugurugi being a "word user", that is) or am I gonna have to look through the raw myself?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
...It's had absolutely no effect on anything since his "win" (if you can call it that) over Medaka.

You'd think that something like his sudden ability to use Mars Mode wouldn't be allowed under Devil Style, as it was ABSOLUTELY an asspull, as was Nienami's oh by the way I was actually the weakest.

Also, I find that Zenkichi is the "weakest" of the Student Council in the same way that Kumagawa is the "weakest"; that is to say, he isn't at all.

That said, I should say though that I find Devil Style uninteresting. A very strict reading of how Ajimu described it would imply that nothing of note would happen to Zenkichi, ever.
Altered God Mode: Zenkichi edition was stated to have been something he developed before they even had the election, with the help of Shiranui and Ajimu. Aesthetically it heavily resembles Hinokage's appearance after he obtained Theme Song, and conceptually we can infer that it is similar to Medaka's Altered God Mode, whereby she wields the full potential of the power she has via War God Mode but at the same time retaining the perfect control of her mind/emotions that she has normally (i.e. without falling into mindless anger). Basically, all Altered God Mode: Zenkichi edition does is allow Zenkichi to use his own abilities to his full potential. It is hardly much of an overpowered ability or asspull, considering that full potential is still not much compared to the truly monstrous abilities of characters like Medaka (see the trouble Zenkichi still ended up having taking down Nienami).

I disagree that Devil Style has disappeared, but I also disagree that it has any extended effect on characters not directly involved with Zenkichi. Saying that Medaka can "lose" now against any random smuck or be turned into a "damsel in distress" sort of thing is dumb, the only opponent who can cancel out Medaka's MC/Abnormal aura for the moment is Ajimu/Zenkichi. Outside of occasional interactions with Zenkichi, all of the other Medaka Box character's universal auras should still be operating just as they always have. It's only because of that that things like getting kidnapped during a crazy wedding fighting tournament are possible in the first place.

Anyway, I'm gonna look forward to seeing Emukae somehow beating the supposedly strongest Suitor, lol . Maybe this will be a good point to step away from the conventional "shounen battle" arc structure; same way that the Flask Plan mixed things up once it reached the Akune vs. Koga and Naze fight.
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Old 2012-06-08, 05:02   Link #9239
Endscape
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
...It's had absolutely no effect on anything since his "win" (if you can call it that) over Medaka.

You'd think that something like his sudden ability to use Mars Mode wouldn't be allowed under Devil Style, as it was ABSOLUTELY an asspull, as was Nienami's oh by the way I was actually the weakest.
Being able to use Mars Mode isn't an asspull, he could have just figured it out. By that standard any time a character gained a new ability the readers have never seen before, it would be an asspull.

Quote:
That said, I should say though that I find Devil Style uninteresting. A very strict reading of how Ajimu described it would imply that nothing of note would happen to Zenkichi, ever.
I agree, Devil Style is something that's interesting in theory, but would be boring in reality.

In any case, if Zenkichi had any sense, he would have gotten rid of the thing. I assume the thing works on him as well, and if so, it's plain stupidity to use something that takes away your own luck. I mean, we know it works in everyday situations, since it was at work at the culture festival, apparently, so what if it messes up his everyday life?
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Old 2012-06-08, 05:24   Link #9240
Sol Falling
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Being able to use Mars Mode isn't an asspull, he could have just figured it out. By that standard any time a character gained a new ability the readers have never seen before, it would be an asspull.



I agree, Devil Style is something that's interesting in theory, but would be boring in reality.

In any case, if Zenkichi had any sense, he would have gotten rid of the thing. I assume the thing works on him as well, and if so, it's plain stupidity to use something that takes away your own luck. I mean, we know it works in everyday situations, since it was at work at the culture festival, apparently, so what if it messes up his everyday life?
Zenkichi is(/was) a Normal, so he never had any Abnormal luck in the first place. The thing that Devil Style accomplishes is that it prevents Zenkichi from being affected by the Abnormal luck of any of the other characters. Thus "Zero"; not just "Normal", but "Normalizing". It is a decent aid against any Abnormal character Zenkichi might end up going against, although his actual results will still depend on the degree his training and preparation can compare against his opponent's base abilities.

The point about Devil Style/Zenkichi's "Zero" status in the first place is his rejection of the conventional advantages of a Main Character. This includes the escapist function of most shallow entertainment/junk fiction in general, where you basically have a generic/archetypal self-insert MC for the audience and he gets awesome abilities and goes on epic adventures so the audiences can pretend that they themselves are that awesome personally. After Nishio exaggerated the ridiculousness of the narrative conveniences this creates via Medaka to its logical conclusion, he's now developed Zenkichi as a character who stands in opposition to that. In essence, via Devil Style, Zenkichi has/will now become the antithesis to the self-satisfying self-insert Main Character. To the extent that this manga continues to actually follow Zenkichi, he will be exactly as Ajimu said, a "New World MC" who does not offer any of the conventional escapist satisfaction of standard shounen main characters.

Last edited by Sol Falling; 2012-06-08 at 05:56.
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